carguyinok Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 OK, people I have a 72 240Z that I am doing a SBC swap with. I also happen to have an extra empty 350 block for my mock-up work. I did bolt an oilpan on the block so I could see just where things would be. I only wish I had an empty transmission case.... That's a heavy part for playing with. So, tonight I started with just the raw block with oilpan and the stock motor mount plates for the 350. I set the 350 mounts over the Z frame rail mounts and let the motor rest on those points up front. Then took a strap and hooked it around the hood latch for holding up the back. This also let me raise and lower the rear as I wish. I was very shocked at just how close it was with just doing this. Then after some playing around and looking I pushed the transmission under and got it bolted onto the block. Now as I looked over the info on the JTR kit and parts they talk about set back plates. I dont understand why you would go back. The only reason I could thinkof was for fan clearance. But, If I was to bring the whole package forward just 1" or 2" It would clear up many more of my headaches. One thing that would do is put the tail of my transmission within reach of building a mount that could use the stock trans mount of the Z. It would also help me with clearance for the shift linkage on the transmission and the trans tunnel on the Z. If you look at the underside shot you can see the linkage touching the tunnel. Now keep in mind the whole package will raise another good 1-2" with motor mounts on. So pushing it back would only make it worse. Also, going forward would give me clearance for keeping my stock hood latch. Now I have plans on electric fans for cooling and an electric water pump aswell. So I do have the room for pulling it forward the 1-2" I just mounted a stock waterpump so I would have alittle gauge for now. Anyway, Would this be throwing off balance? Or are there other reasons for setting the motor back vs. forward. I am not looking for a 1/4 mile car here. Just a fun street car. Thank you for the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingnothing616 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 You definately need to do some searching about why you need to mount your motor back.. It will handle like crap if you keep it that way. I am just getting finished up with my build, check it out.. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=144946 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyinok Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thats what I was wondering about. I wasnt sure if it would throw it off that much or not. Now I see I was thinking correct with where the motor would sit by how your balancer is over the rack. That was my guess of where it would end up after mocking it up. Nice job, how did you deal with the transmission clearance on the shifting linkage? After looking it over tonight I think thats about my only real issue with setting it back. Other then that it looks rather cut n dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingnothing616 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My answer to almost all of my clearance issues is my Trusted Mac Tools AIR HAMMER.. haha. I just beat it all in, and then im going to re-coat it with some 3m undercoating. If you have any other questions just hit me up man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyinok Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sounds crude lol. I think I will end up cutting and building a box on that part. But dose the dent you made get in the way of the seat inside? I think it would still be aways forward of that but thought I woud ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The main issue with the motor that far forward is getting the exhaust around the steering shaft. Damper to rack clearance is also an issue. You basically have three variations mounts you can purchase, hooker, msa, and jtr. The hooker is most forward and uses the hooker headers, the jtr is most to the rear, the msa is in between. Msa and jtr can use S&S headers or block huggers. The exhaust is the most problematic part of a V8 Z IMO. Lots of good reading here on the site, and check out jtr's site. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyinok Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 The main issue with the motor that far forward is getting the exhaust around the steering shaft. Damper to rack clearance is also an issue. You basically have three variations mounts you can purchase, hooker, msa, and jtr. The hooker is most forward and uses the hooker headers, the jtr is most to the rear, the msa is in between. Msa and jtr can use S&S headers or block huggers. The exhaust is the most problematic part of a V8 Z IMO. Lots of good reading here on the site, and check out jtr's site. jt Thank you for the time JT1. I have been doing searchs here and they are all plugged up with postings that have nothing too do with what I was asking or looking for. I love the site and have found the people here very helpful. I just cant say the same for the search...... So, it's all over the header and how you are looking to run your exhaust? I could care in the least about the exhaust headers and the route they take. I make my own headers and can run them damn near anyplace I please with just a few small changes. For me I am looking at keeping this car as pure as I can. I say this because I am looking at going back with the L28 and stock 4 speed at some point. So if I can keep from cutting and notching on the car I would go that way. I dont mind getting a longer driveshaft made. I just wanted to make sure that the car can still handle the curves without alot of work at the wheel. The motor going in is nothing more then a stock 74 350 with fresh internals a mild cam and 4 bbl carb. I am not looking for 14 mile records or a road racer. Just a fun little driver thats gona have some get-up n go when I ask for it. Thank you again for your time and help. I will try another search and keep my fingers crossed. If anyone has a link or two I would be VERY thankful for that. By the way JT1, I love the movie 2nd hand loins it's a classic IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 With the hooker mounts and headers, you don't have to cut out the hood latch. With jtr, you've got to cut out the 45 deg part to clear the distributor. I'm not sure about msa. The hooker mounts position the motor pretty high, and air cleaner clearance is very tight. You see a lot of hooker cars with the little foam air cleaners on them. I use the jtr mounts because you can wind up with an almost 50/50 F/R weight dist, about 52% on the rear with me in the seat. I do road race track days and time trial my car, so handling is important. With the hooker setup, you're probably going to wind up 54 -55% on the front. It's not the end of the world, but it's not optimum for handling. For a nice street car, it probably wouldn't be an issue. There are a good many compromises made in a project like this. Set your priorities and name your poison. And yeah, Secondhand Lions is a masterpiece. One of my favorites. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvincent Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Depending on your motor/trans selection dictates how much you need to massage your tunnel. I have the LT1 with the T56 in a 280Z and had to do very little tunnel massaging. Check out my pics in my gallery. You can see how much of the original tranny mount I cut out with a SawZall. I didn't have to move the hood latch because of the Lt1, But even though with a Distributor there you can cut away the 45, move it over with the JTR plate, or eliminate it and use hood pins where the bump stops are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyinok Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thank you all. I had plans for going with the turbo 350. But, now it looks like the project is getting the turbo 400. I have a feeling that I am looking for the Scarab motor mounts, hooker, or I am just going to end up building my own mounts. Between the cutting of the hood latch and just how much trans tunnel work the 400 will cause I will keep it forward. I know it's not alot of work on eather job. But once I start cutting into the car any plans I had for going back stock are out the window. I may never go back stock with this car. I cant say 100% yes or no on that. But I do know it's a very nice choice that I would like to have. See I also own a 73 240Z & thats my true V8 240Z. With plans for a full tube subframe and ground up build. But, the 72 I am working on was just for a fun summer toy this year. I had a fresh L28 stroker motor from the 73. I put that motor in my 72 just this last week. After a few hot laps in our parking lot I found that it had a bad headgasket. But not untill it had wipped out the cam and put alot of metal into the whole motor. So now I am just going with the sbc swap on this one because I have almost everything that I need. But rather then pumping all my HP parts and money into this one I just want to get it done as a fun driver for now. Then I can get back on track with the 73. Once thats done I have a feeling that it would be nice having a stock 240Z parked with her at the shop. But if I cut this one up that wont happen so....... I hope this helps some of you understand why I am doing what I am. Sure, it may sound silly for some. But it's the road I have picked. Like I have said this ones just for some fun times and having a driver for the summer. But one that can also get back in stock shape without alot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyinok Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well, after a few phone calls I have found that the Hooker mounts are still out there. Bad news is they must be made of gold and silver @ almost $250.00 ...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 If you want to take a road trip down to Rogers, AR some time you can take a look at my original Scarab car. PM me sometime. Check out the link at the bottom of the page for the cardomain web page. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 with an automatic I would use the forward mounted position (like you have it). Yes, the weight on the nose of the car will be more. But the engine cooling is much better with the engine more forward. The forward position creates a lot more room around the transmission and the transmission tunnel which is the path hot air takes to leave the engine compartment. An automatic transmission almost touches the body in the set back position which restricts the air flow greatly. if nose weight becomes an issue, then move the battery to the back and get some aluminum heads, intake, and water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Hitchcock Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I thought the Scarab kit was the way to go until I first drove my car with that heavy V8 hanging way over the crossmember. A lot of these worries about cooling, transmission fit, and header clearance are just not that important. If you want to build a fun street car and not an all out drag racer move the engine back as far as you can. Use aluminum heads, intake, and electric fans. It is lighter than the stock staight six. Take my word for it you will regret not doing so because it will sacrifice the balance of this car. You don't have to go as nutty with your build as some of us but do move the engine back. Good luck bro. Things look really good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 cooling not important??? the mounting position makes a difference, especially in the south. I had read a few general "engine swap books" and air space around the transmission is a major concern. Plus I have done a few V8 conversion on z's and have had cooling issues with automatic trans plugging the hot air escape path. however, if the z is not a true daily driver then the cooling will not be an issue. What I mean by daily driver is a V8 z that has AC and can sit in a traffic jam on a 100 degree day without over heating (like a new car). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I can tell you that in a 71Z, lt1 and t56 if you move the engine foreward you will not clear the steering shaft. I am using Sanderson headers and with the engine set all the way back I clear the streering shaft by 1/8", But you will need to clearance the tunnel on the right side to clear the bellhousing, The JTR kit moves the enguine over and back so it's tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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