L28et/T5 Conversion Questions

[Zmanco]

Ok, I'm finally taking the plunge over to the dark side on my 73. I found a deal on an engine and transmission from a wrecked 82 turbo. Interesting story: the car was stolen from the dealer lot and totaled. The dealer removed the engine/tranny/driveshaft and sold it to the brother of the guy I bought it from. It sat in his garage for 20+ years and then when he sold his Z it went out into the field behind his father's home. I picked it up this week with less than 100 miles on it.

 

I've been spending a lot of time searching but there are a few issues I'm just not able to clear up. I thought I'd try asking those questions all in this thread so the next person might have an easier time finding the last bit of information.

 

Question 1: Does anyone have any pictures showing how they mounted the rear transmission mount? I've found a few threads discussing this, but the descriptions just aren't clear to me. The issue appears to be that the center line of the T5 mount is 15 or 30 mm off the stock one, depending on how the T5 mount is oriented. Bryan Little's site talk about using 2 pieces of angle iron, but I think that is only for the early 240s, not for my 73.

 

Question 2: For the BW T5 transmission, what is the proper fluid and how much? I found a book called "How to build and modify your manual transmission" that says the early T5 can use GL4 70w and that later WC T5 use ATF. But I'd feel better if I heard this from multiple sources. Also, I've read the amount is 2.7 - 2.8 liters. Does that sound right? I had planned on going with Redline MTL until I read the passage in the book.

 

Question 3: I know I need to shorten the drive shaft. I currently have a 4.11 R180 diff with CLSD that I would like to keep. I understand I need to find the special diff flange from the turbo R200, but need to confirm if it will fit the R180?

 

Question 4: I've read the diff sticky over and over, but don't see anywhere that specifically says if the R180 is the same length as the R200? Or maybe I should really ask if the R180 and R200 both can use the same length drive shaft? I ask because if they're not, then if I am going to swap to an R200, I should do it BEFORE I shorten the drive shaft. I'd rather not change its length twice.

 

Question 5: What is this sensor near the oil filter? Perhaps a switch to sense low oil pressure?

 

That's all so far, I'll have more as the build progresses. TIA.

[skib]

 

Question 5: What is this sensor near the oil filter? Perhaps a switch to sense low oil pressure?

 

Knock sensor

[Zmanco]

Knock sensor

Wow, I didn't know that the turbo Zs had knock sensors. I'm running MSII/Extra which has support for it. Hmm... I wonder if I can begin to use that feature? Cool.

[superduner]

hopefully some peeps can answer his T-5 questions as i am incredible close to his story. except i got the whole ZXT car to start the engine in. BEFORE the swap.....

id want to throw the T5 into the 72 so Q's # 1-4 relate to me

 

SUSCRIBED!

[citjet]

I was wondering who was going to end up with that engine. You got a great deal on it, I wish it would've been closer to me. Good luck with the build I will be doing the same with my '72 so I'll be watching closely.

[superduner]

lol seems like thats the " IN " thing to do nowadays eh ... 72's with l28 turtle and T5-s , my problem probably will be finding a suitable LSD for it. i dont think i want an Vlsd from what i've read. so im thinking a Clsd that i can find kinda affordable. (no intention of threadjack) but ANY SUGGESTIONS ? seeing as we guys are thinking of doing the same thang

[Zmanco]

Question 6: I have a relatively new Centerforce II clutch that I've been very happy with for NA. The literature says it has a little more clamping force than stock, and also the weights that are supposed to increase clamping force at higher rpms. My goals for this engine are modest: ~250 whp and no drag racing drop clutch starts. Has anyone tried the CFII clutch with a turbo motor and know if it has enough clamping force to handle the peak torque at higher revs?

[Darrel]

The r180 and r200 ds flange will not interchange. If you still intend to use the t5 then you may as well have a driveshaft built.

 

Also, I don't think the 4.11 would do well behind a turbo. I only know this because of sleeperz had a 3.9 and he would have to shift before building any boost.

 

I guess I wasn't very clear in our emails before about the driveshaft.

 

 

Looks like clean cylinder bores. Does it rotate freely? If it does, then I wouldn't bother doing any type of rebuild. Unless the pic don't show the whole story.

[Zmanco]

Thanks Darrel, I don't like the answer, but won't shoot the messenger

 

That has me rethinking the T5 swap, but I don't like the idea of putting somewhere on the order of 250 lbft torque through the stock NA transmission over a long time. Even the T5 is only rated for 265 lbft.

 

As for the 4.11 diff, you bring up a good point. One of my objectives is to keep as much of the throttle response of the NA engine as I can. I'm going to start with the stock T3 turbo and modest boost and see how it goes. Also, on the track, most of the time is spent in 3rd gear (and maybe 4th at HPR) so I wasn't all that worried about the shortness of 1st and 2nd.

 

Bores look great! Cross hatching is very visible as you'd expect. The distributor was missing and it looks like some dirt collected in the fitting for it on the timing cover, so I'll pull that just to be sure everything is clean. Then put it all back together using my shaved P90 with the turbo cam and we'll see what's what.

 

I'm still debating if I add an intercooler for phase 1 but expect that by the end (phase ?) I'll have an intercooler along with a T3/T04e. As I read the compressor charts, I don't think I can hit my goals with the stock T3 efficiently.

[josh817]

Yah thats a knock sensor, I think on a P90A head its in the block and there is a sensor at the rear of the head which is cylinder head temperature.

[slownrusty]

Question 2: For the BW T5 transmission, what is the proper fluid and how much? I found a book called "How to build and modify your manual transmission" that says the early T5 can use GL4 70w and that later WC T5 use ATF. But I'd feel better if I heard this from multiple sources. Also, I've read the amount is 2.7 - 2.8 liters. Does that sound right? I had planned on going with Redline MTL until I read the passage in the book.

 

TIA.

 

Daniel - As I only have 280ZX Turbos I can answer your second Question. On a newish T5 like you have (I think you said it only has a couple of hundered miles on it - correct?), only run regular (i.e non-synthetic) 75W90. Once the tranny has a thousand or so miles on it, I recommend a 75W90 or 80W90 Synthetic. If you run synthetic in it now, dollars to donuts it will grind for sure. The correct amount of fluid is 2.1L for a fill.

Yasin

[Zmanco]

Thanks Yasin, that makes sense. BTW, do you fill through the upper plug until it runs out just as with the stock transmission?

[Zmanco]

Question 7: Can I use the same clutch fork and throwout bearing from the NA 5 speed with the T5? The T5's clutch fork and collar are rusted enough that I'd rather not try to clean them up.

 

The MSA parts catalog suggests that the fork and clutch collar are different, but that the release bearing is the same. Does anyone have any experience to confirm this? I'd hate to buy parts like this if I don't need them.

 

Edit: also noticed that MSA shows different parts for the clutch slave cylinder. Does that mean that I can't reuse the NA one?

[slownrusty]

Thanks Yasin, that makes sense. BTW, do you fill through the upper plug until it runs out just as with the stock transmission?

 

 

Yup you got it!

 

Yasin

[DCZ]

To answer your first question - I used the 280ZX rear transmission mount but had to turn it 180 degrees to get it to fit. This was a T5 out of an 83 ZXT 2+2 going into a 73 240. The ZXT mount looked similar to the 73 mount but it was offset a little so that the mount looked like a set of shallow delta wings. I still had to pry it into position with the engine mount bolts loose to get it to go in but I haven't had any problems in 2 years.

 

I've used ATF since multiple sources in my searching said to use that. No real problems but I do have a little trouble getting into 1st or reverse on occasion.

 

I swapped in the 3.54 R200 from the donor car and used Ross' ModernMotorsports adaptors for the axles and have been very happy with the setup.

[superduner]

between us T5 and zx turtle owners. what diff woudl you guys recomend me getting ?

R200 from 200sx TURBO

stock 83 zx-t diff ? ? ?

would it bolt on easily into the 240z ? just thinking maybe the shafts might be different no ? if not thats sweet. what diff mount should be used btw ?

 

sorry guys im stuck at work for a few more hours so i cant really do much search as i "cheat" once in a while and get on the forums to check my subscription updates.

lets keep up the good work guys

[Spooler]

You can use your existing tranny cross member. I cut mine and moved it forward 3/4 in. I had to bend the T5 shifter back 3/4 in. and back up. Use the T5 throwout bearing fork with a stock throwout bearing and collar. Have a custom made driveshaft built to speck. Use the Turbo clutch slave cylinder and rod. This is what it took to get it in a 75' 280z. I had no help or anyone with any previous experience to ask any questions. Boy it was fun!!! Hope this helps. I have the 3.5 R200 in my car also. Older T5 trannies use standard tranny fluid. I use 75w90 Mobil One synthetic. The new T5 trannies switched to auto tranny fluid, I can't exactly remember why but it was due to a new part they installed in the tranny and if did not use auto tranny fluid, it would eat itself....LOL

[Drax240z]

I don't like the idea of putting somewhere on the order of 250 lbft torque through the stock NA transmission over a long time.

 

FWIW, I've put 282ft-lbs of torque through my stock 77 5-speed for 30,000miles or so, and probably 50+ autocross events with no issues. Not saying it's the best solution, but it's stronger than most people give credit for.

[superduner]

You can use your existing tranny cross member. I cut mine and moved it forward 3/4 in. I had to bend the T5 shifter back 3/4 in. and back up. Use the T5 throwout bearing fork with a stock throwout bearing and collar. Have a custom made driveshaft built to speck. Use the Turbo clutch slave cylinder and rod. This is what it took to get it in a 75' 280z. I had no help or anyone with any previous experience to ask any questions. Boy it was fun!!! Hope this helps. I have the 3.5 R200 in my car also. Older T5 trannies use standard tranny fluid. I use 75w90 Mobil One synthetic. The new T5 trannies switched to auto tranny fluid, I can't exactly remember why but it was due to a new part they installed in the tranny and if did not use auto tranny fluid, it would eat itself....LOL

 

 

this is interesting i did not know this. from what year of the zxT and up did the T5 tranny need this special oil ? and what is the BEST oil that anyone can recommend me putting in the tranny given my donor zxT is either an 82 or 83. if im correct. yeah the driveshaft il most likely buy it from vildiny motorsports or AZ since ive heard they carry the right one needed for the T5 on S30. shotened one.

 

any info on what clutch lsd would be good for my s30 ? wich 1, from what car, and what changes will i need to do to the S30 240z (if any ) to fit that particular lsd

[Hyuri]

Direct from the 1983 Datsun [by Nissan] 280ZX [Factory] Service Manual: the lubricant tables (cropped from page MA-8).

 

Good luck finding API SE oil though.