Small, lightweight clutches

[AkumaNoZeta]

Anybody have any experience with these?

http://www.racingclutches.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Clutch+Units+%26+Parts%3A+4.5%22+Clutch+Units

 

Are they strictly for race cars, too much for the street?

 

I dont think difficulty of pushing in the clutch pedal would be a problem for me because I'm completely used to the one in my cable-operated Mustang while others who try to drive it have the hardest time trying to push it down. Of course that made feeling for the hydraulic one on the Z a little more difficult to control because it felt like pushing on an extra, extra soft pillow. You should have seen it when I tried left foot braking a couple times, now that was liable to give whip lash. lol

 

I'm thinking more in regards of reliability, durability, and if they can be installed in anything else besides a small-block Chevy (CA18DET in particular)

[Flexicoker]

I think quartermaster makes a stock diameter flywheel for a 4.5" clutch for an L-series, not sure about a CA18. Check the applications list.

 

As far as streetability I have no idea. Supposedly carbon/carbon will hold a ton of power, very smooth engagement and very long lasting (this is compared to metallic racing clutches). Thats all from word of mouth though, I have no first hand experience with them. They will probably require alot more maintenance than a street clutch though, and cost alot more money.

 

All that said... I would love to try a tiny multi-disk C/C clutch on my car...

[AkumaNoZeta]

I dont understand where the extra maintenance would come from, thats why I started this thread. They are rated for 700 lb-ft of torque and I say at absolute best I would have only like 300 so I think that one of these would last a VERY long time. I just want the extra effiency of the less rotational mass and moment of inertia. Anybody have any idea on prices? I cant find them on the site. Also I didn't see the CA on the application list but I'm sure a custom flywheel could be made to incorporate it, right?

[Flexicoker]

a racing or custom flywheel will probably run you $4-500. I don't know about the clutches. Call here for pricing and alot more information:

 

http://www.taylor-race.com/

[thehelix112]

http://www.taylor-race.com/add.cfm?id=5520

 

Innnteresting! Cool site.

 

 

Dave

[Flexicoker]

They also have adapters for Quaife gearboxes for the L-series, as well as clutch release systems I believe. (I used to work there)

[MONGO510]

The flywheels that are used with this type of clutch are extremely light.

The lack of inertial mass from the flywheel would make it almost unusable on the street. Its do-able but I bet you would not like it.

[thehelix112]

Mongo,

 

How does it make it unusable? Are you saying it makes it more difficult to take off/easier to stall because there is less energy in the rotating mass? If so, couldn't you just put more energy in the system by revving the engine a bit higher? But I guess that means that you then have more slip in the system, and more flip == more friction.

 

Dave

[Flexicoker]

I think it depends alot on the clutch. I have the 10.5lb Fidanza on my car right now with a metallic clutch and it took some getting used to, and is kind of annoying. I think the lightweight flywheel would be okay, as long as you had an easy to modulate clutch. Most racing clutches however, will not be easy to modulate.

[AkumaNoZeta]

Well, if the light flywheel will cause the engine to stall I would want to do it but if modulation (if refering to ease of pushing the pedal) I dont think I would have a problem given the hydraulic clutch set up. Everything else is just getting the friction point down in my opinion.

[MONZTER]

I have a clutchmaster 7.5 inch dual disc clutch in mine. Complete clutch and flywheel is around 17lbs. what he means by streatable is not the effort. These types of clutches are not sprung, so they tend to chatter and jump when engaging. Also the throttle gets really touchy. Small smooth amounts of throttle is not an option. Its funny when someone tries to drive my car. First thing they do is stall it due to the low mass and the need to rev it and slip it abit. Next they rev it too much and end up spinning the tires at an intersection. Now I have gotton use to it and love it, but it is something you have to think about every time you start at a light. when a cop is next to you and your car is already way illegal. It kinda gets sketchy

[AkumaNoZeta]

What do you mean that "small smooth amouts of throttle are not an option"? Like if you try to roll on the throttle for a slow, steady acceleration it kinda gets like...boggy?

 

BTW, no offense but I think its fairly easy to make a car illegal in Cali. Arkansas doesn't have any emissions or inspections, at least none I have ever had to deal with. As long as your car doesn't make the police scared that you're faster than them, they dont bother you. They didn't even bother my friend with his open headers SBC that is pretty loud to say the least

[X64v]

What he means is that there is basically no slipping involved in starting from a standstill. I drove a 240 at a track day with basically the same clutch (maybe the exact same clutch?). It's just a controlled drop. You give the engine the right amount of rpms and then basically drop the clutch, because it has very little ability to slip. Too little and you bog the engine, too much and you spin the tires, but get it right and it's not so bad at all. I can see it being no big deal once you get used to it. It's basically a little more extreme version of what I have to do to keep my 6 puck clutch from chattering anyways, let it grab just a tiny bit then let it all the way out quickly.

[AkumaNoZeta]

Oh, ok. Thats what I kinda expect from a clutch though.

 

I dont know what I was thinking, the only way my description would have made any sense is if the engine was in dire need of a tune up/rebuild or if it was just like a 3 cylinder Geo engine trying to push a 4000 lb car I guess.

[Flexicoker]

I think I small, 2-disk organic clutch could be a real winner for high-hp (or low-hp in my case =D) street cars that want low inertia and streetability. Quartermaster makes an 8.5" twin disk in organic, but thats not a whole lot smaller than the stock clutch. It is aluminum though. Monzter's is 7.5" and sounds pretty close to what I'm imagining.

 

After a little research it seems that Tilton makes some carbon/carbon clutches for high-hp street cars that seem reliable. Quartermasters C/C has to be shimmed to keep it in spec (how often??) those are $4k+ clutches though.

 

Another thing to take into consideration is that alot of these clutches will need a custom/modified clutch release system. An annular slave cylinder is pretty easy to adapt to most transmissions with a little machine work...

[MONZTER]

My Clutchmaster uses Kevlar disc and bolts right in with no special slave or parts @1500.00 They wont sell direct, but MSA can get them. They are custom order and take a few weeks to get.

[AkumaNoZeta]

So are you all saying that 7.5" clutches are the smallest recommended for street use?

[Flexicoker]

Not necessarily, I don't know how small is too small, but I haven't found anywhere that you can get an organic or kevlar disk smaller than what Monzter has. Anything with a metallic disk is probably going to be a pain on the street, especially if its super low inertia.

[Tony D]

The flywheels that are used with this type of clutch are extremely light.

The lack of inertial mass from the flywheel would make it almost unusable on the street. Its do-able but I bet you would not like it.

 

That's not entirely true! The flywheel is a custom piece, with the drive dogs on it for the standard 7.5, 5.5 or now the smaller 4" clutches.

 

All you do is specify an inertia ring be incorporated in the flywheel, and they can do it. JeffP had a three-disc quartermaster mated to just such a flywheel after inquiring on it. I told him to specify it, and they made it so!

 

Normally if you are running a 4 or 5 " clutch, inertia is NOT what you want.

 

Most people running clutches on the street will opt for the 7.5" diameter discs. Far less inertia than most standard (Tilton 11# comes to mind) flywheels made for 'performance/street usage' due to the weight of the slippers, cover, and MOI decrease. The flywheel doesn't need the heavy bolting mass the stock 225 or 240mm clutch cover would dictate, so it can all go away---with vestigial webbing for the flywheel.

 

All you do is have the flywheel machined thicker out by the ring gear. A little goes a long way.

 

But due to their action they DO wear more, ezpecially if you slip them. ANY clutch wears, and single disc units are simply massively thicker by a factor than three plates in similar flywheel to throwout collar distance.

 

Now, if you want to make a custom T/O collar, and thereby allow yourself FAR thicker facings on each of the clutch discs rubbing on those slipper drive plates, then you will get more wear.

 

Our multi-disc Tilton was running around $300 to rebuild with discs, drive plates, and a resurfacing of the cover. But we only did it once. We used the clutch more in staging lanes or moving onto/off the trailer than we did in a pass down the track. They like 'on or off' but slipping simply wears them. And with less material there to wear, they get the rap of 'wearing out fast'----they aren't wearing any faster than a single disc...they just have less wear material as a function of the construction constraints most pople put onto them!