CASH For Assistance - From Scratch Wiring Dilemmas

[240Z2NV]

I have gotten to the point of either walking away from this six year build, or taking a sledge hammer to it. This project began with the anticipation of assistance in areas where I have minimal knowledge. Finding reliable folks AFTER-their commitment, is like finding a needle in a haystack blindfolded.

 

Anyway, I am wiring the build FROM-SCRATCH because it began its Life with me having ZERO wires in place. I have read two books, and posted ads on craigslist to PAY FOR ASSISTANCE, and to no avail, here I am. I am so close to being able to do final asembly; but, I want to do wire runs first.

 

Please do not ask why I just didn't buy a Painless kit....

 

So, I am looking for help from someone with expertise in advanced wiring, relays, capacitors, diodes, etc. I am more than happy to pay someone for their time TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. I do not need someone to do the work, just help me diagnose and formulate the circuits [which I have drawn up individually on poster boards]. I cannot express how much I would appreciate any help at this point. I do not have much money, been out of work for eleven months; but, I am SURE that we can arrange fair compensation to answer questions. PLEASE.

[rsicard]

I have gotten to the point of either walking away from this six year build, or taking a sledge hammer to it. This project began with the anticipation of assistance in areas where I have minimal knowledge. Finding reliable folks AFTER-their commitment, is like finding a needle in a haystack blindfolded.

 

Anyway, I am wiring the build FROM-SCRATCH because it began its Life with me having ZERO wires in place. I have read two books, and posted ads on craigslist to PAY FOR ASSISTANCE, and to no avail, here I am. I am so close to being able to do final asembly; but, I want to do wire runs first.

 

Please do not ask why I just didn't buy a Painless kit....

 

So, I am looking for help from someone with expertise in advanced wiring, relays, capacitors, diodes, etc. I am more than happy to pay someone for their time TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. I do not need someone to do the work, just help me diagnose and formulate the circuits [which I have drawn up individually on poster boards]. I cannot express how much I would appreciate any help at this point. I do not have much money, been out of work for eleven months; but, I am SURE that we can arrange fair compensation to answer questions. PLEASE.

240Z2NV: Don't give up there is help here. There is also a fellow on classiczcars.com in the 240 Electrical section that may be able to help also. He supplies vendors with modification harnesses for the Datsuns. I personally have 38+ years experience in Aviation Electronics all the way from wiring aircraft to designing interfaces between the black boxes and doing certification of same.

 

Please describe the electrical configuration (240z?) you are looking to do. There are cheaper ways to go than (most expensive) Painless Wiring. On Ebay right now there is a 240Z Series 2 Dash Harness. I am looking for a Series 1 Dash Harness that I can reverse engineer.

[dan5138]

What are you after exactly? Full body harness? Full engine harness? Or both? I have been cooking up an Idea lately to make a solid state circuit for controlling all the lighting on my car, rather than all the relays, flashers and other garbage that goes bad after about 30 years. I can draw up a schematic, but my soldering skills are kinda meh, lol.

[240Z2NV]

THANK YOU !! I know Dave, the guy that you mentioned on Classic Z Cars. He has helped me acquire many of the modern electrical components that I am trying to install, as well as done an LED tail light conversion for me. He doesn't have time to answer my numerous questions. Good guy, though.

 

If you need a dash harness, I might have the correct one that I pulled from a jy car. I do not want to use ANY old wires or connectors. I plan to use new wire, heatshrink terminals, etc. for a 'Sanno' install. If you are available to answer my [NUMEROUS] questions about the circuits, we can communicate via PM so as not to have a HUGE thread here. We can also discuss how much you'd like to be paid to help.

 

Thanks very much. I suppose it was pretty clear in my op how frustrated I have become....

[240Z2NV]

My engine bay harness is complete [LS1], although I have yet to finalize the BEST way to handle the draw of my Lincoln 18" [not 17" Taurus] fan. I have to wire from headlight to tail light, again, with the exception of the engine bay. I have made three 'project boxes' that house 48 circuits for fusing, and am completing my second project box to house ten tab mount relays.

 

I am open to ANY solutions. I am just too desperate to get it on the ground [in case I lose my house :~( ]. If you have a circuit board in mind, I am open to all alternatives. My soldering isn't bad at all. But, a jet aircraft mechanic friend of mine highly enouraged me to avoid soldering connections in main wiring runs. He isn't comfortable with relays, etc on 12V applications, so his assitance has been limited to more 'cosmetic' aspects.

 

Both of you guys are ENCOURAGED to PM me to discuss further. Thanks !!!!!

[Dudeboy]

240Z2NV,

 

Don't give up yet!!!! I am not expert electrician, but I am starting part 2 of my electric work. I wired my guages (Autometer) with Painless guage harness (I know !!!!) with dash out of the car. I have a Summit chassis harness, and then the LS1 harness and have a plan of attack this weekend. I have this little book http://www.speedwaymotors.com/How-To-Wire-Your-Street-Rod-Book,2824.html and The Automotive Electrical Handbook. Another thing I did was just read the instruction manuals from the Painless website:http://www.painlessperformance.com/manuals.php - The only thing different from the instructions that I am doing is utilizing GM WeatherPack connectors. Also check out

American Autowire tech headquarters http://www.americanautowire.com/faq/?page_id=223. I could build harness now with all this stuff I have read and bookmark, it was just easier to buy a harness, but use the info as a blueprint to build your harness, ie, wire guages for each circuit, what relays, what works on ignition on versus accessory.

 

Good Luck

[240Z2NV]

Thanks for the support. I have read "Custom Auto Electronics & Auto Electrical" and "Hot Rod Wiring" [which was essentially a LONG advertisement for Painless]. I have scoured 12Volt.com as well as other sites. I have yet to find ANY source that SPECIFICALLY states which relays should be used for my particular application.

 

I get caught up when they suggest determining 'Normally Open', 'Normally Closed', 'Positve Switching', 'Negative Switching', 'Double Negative Switching', use of diodes to prevent 'backflow' energizing.....yada, yada, yada. Once it starts getting technical, my eyes cross.

 

I have the OE schematics for the donor car for the LS1, and OE schematics from the Z; but, figuring out how to integrate the two, with modern covenience functions ...... ??!!*$@#

 

Even the OE schematics don't specify which relays are being used. And the Diodes.......

[Dudeboy]

I found a bosch relay website, that explains the purpose of each relay and its function for automotive purposes. When I get home tonight , I will post the link. It has drawings and instructions with good information.

[Dudeboy]

Found it the Bosch relay guide: http://dlcparts.com/images/BoschGuide.pdf

This guide help me understand relay functions a lot better.

[240hoke]

I have rewired a couple Z, and have personally used the painless and the EZ wiring kits on my 240z. I feel like I have learned alot in doing the installed and I finally got it right this last time around.

 

Feel free to shoot me and email, I should be able to help with just about any questions. If you dont know what your are doing I would highly suggest the painless kit as they have good instructions and diagrams as well as customer support.

 

Doing wiring right is a MUST and a poorly rewired car is worse then hacked up factory electronics, especially when you finish and havent made notes or have any schematics.

 

Check out:

www.vintageconnections.com <--- Factory conects (Replace ALL connectors and spades, period no soldering....)

www.waytekwire.com <--- (great place for relays, relay mounts, and wiring tools)

 

You can email me at:

twiistedsixx@gmail.com

[MoNkEyT88]

Did somebody say re-wiring!

 

We're in the same boat..

 

[240hoke]

Here is an example of some of the products you can get from waytek. I like to keep the chassis functions separate from the engine due to constant changes. I built my EMS wiring harness from scratch using waytek components, used Ez wiring for the chassis

 

- Fuse panels ($4)

- Relays ($4.40)

-Relay Mounts ($.68)

 

 

Chassis Wiring (Pre Clean Up)

 

Detachable dash harness:

 

Anyway its not hard, just takes some planning and time. Electrons are simple you just gotta just in.

[MoNkEyT88]

Are you using Tyco connectors?

[240hoke]

Those were all bought from vintage connections. They are basically identical to the stock connector designs. The no locking ones will mate up to the factory connectors. I choose to replace the entire connector shells with locking ones.

 

If you starting from scratch any connectors will do though, I just havent found any other nice ones that come with both large and small spades sizes.

[240Z2NV]

'...Hoke' Nice install. Similar to the route that I am going. I have pics of the project box enclosures that I made with Waytek fuses panels and relay boards; but, haven't put them on a pic hosting site. I will be trying to keep the kick panel area as clear as possible, since I hoped to surface mount front speakers there. I am mounting the project box enclosures on the 'face' of the riser for the rear deck [just behind the seat].

 

My big stumbling block is looking at a circuit and being able to say "This function is - switched..." or "This function is + switched..." or "This is a Double Negative switch..." and the normally open or normally closed thing. I can be referred to site-after-site; but, having read just short of three books so far, and still not 'getting it', it isn't likely that another one will click.

 

THIS is why I offered to PAY SOMEONE to just tell me which function is which. And, after over 190 'views', is it inappropriate to be 'disappointed' that only a couple of folks have stepped up to offer a plan ? Roland has tried very hard to bang the stuff out; but, he has a Life, too, and shouldn't be burdened with nailing the WHOLE thing down for me ... regardless of compensation.

 

So '...Hoke', I WILL shoot you a question or two ; but .... I DID say 'don't mention the Painless route...' :~)

[240hoke]

Sorry but I would still ask why!

 

Although it can be done no problem it would take a lot of time to make a panel as clean as painless, and labeled and colored wires with a schematic is invaluable. I say start with painless and modifiy from there while you install. That just IMO and I wont mention it again....I think your shooting yourself in the foot though.

 

Im confused about what you would look at a circuit and determine that. You can wire circuits however you want, most relays connection and tripped with a ground, makes things easier.

[rsicard]

240hoke: Have you compared wire colors/functions between Ez wiring and Painless Wiring documents? Just curious if they both use the same wire color per wire function. Thanks for saying that a schematic is invaluable. Produced a schematic for 240Z2NV for a 2 speed cooling fan using control wires from a PCM designed for DUAL cooling fans. I have 38+ years of Aviation Electronics experience from technician/installer level to designer/engineer/FAA and foreign certification. I have seen and worked on all kinds of wiring diagrams, interfacing all kinds of Avionics, from all kinds of Aviation Mod centers. I specialized in Flight Management Systems which manage MANY sensors including GPS into ONE navigation solution. This is one of the most complicated and useful systems going into Corporate Jet Aircraft.

[240Z2NV]

I'll be thorough enough to put the Painless Topic 'to bed'. I decided long ago, for more than one reason NOT to use a Painless set-up. I have stockpiled my supplies over the six year span of this build, so turning around now to buy a Painless kit would make their Pain[ful] price even more objectionable. I have TONS of wire, and connectors, and such. And doing it from scratch also enables me to use heavier gauge wire than that which is often used in kits, which, according to the 'textbooks' is undersized.

 

As for circuits, I realize that I can 'create' any circuit that I choose; but, I am trying to lay it out logically. The turn signal circuit ONLY encompasses elements that directly pertain to turn signals. I have 48+ fuse slots available to me, so I can create as many smaller breakdowns as I like. The relays, I don't mind overkill. I have had a car burn up in front of me over electrical, so I figure 'a pound and a half of prevention is worth TEN pounds of cure'. So if there is even a slight incling that a ciruit could use a relay, I'd like to have one. Each project box houses ten relays [or more], and the boxes are nice and tidy.

 

I am still working through the Wiper circuit [using Honda motor]. The control lever is not 'testing' out as hoped. Have to study that schematic more, and perhaps trace some wires down on a jy car. I have A LOT of modern 'convenience' items on my car, so I have to account for it. Using all new switches, with the exception of column control switches.

 

Rolland has been incredibly helpful, and patient. Just trying to 'spread out' the 'burden'.

[240hoke]

The painless and ezwire kits use the same color wire for many functions, mainly the lights if i recall. I do not like the 'EZ wire' wire though, they use mainly the same OD and use different amounts of copper strands. Thats one of the main reasons i like Painful better.

 

As for wire sizes, I havent found to much thats inappropriate on the Painless setup except the fuel pump wire. Im sure I dont need to say this to you but if you look at modern cars they run VERY small wire for almost all functions mostly 20-22 gauge from what I can tell except for the power distribution switches/panels.

 

Relays arent going to help keep you from burning down your car, just switchs. Relays allow you to use a negative signal from the switch to flip positive power to an accessory, thus only using grounding signals of very very small amperage from through swtiches; cutting down on wire size, fuses, and live wires. I like the idea of having separate circuits for everything all be it overkill, It would make tracing down problems much easier! I used them from HL (high/low), Horn, Fan, and Fuel pump, and then as computer controlled switches for my efi (which i probably should have used compact relays....which I would recommend for smaller circuits (anything other then horn and headlight).

 

Take a look at this table, 'maximum amps for chassis wiring':

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Chassis wire is supposed to be non bundled and exposed to the air for convection cooling, however its still conservation and then adding a further factor of safety you can see 18-20 gauge is enough for most car apps.

[240Z2NV]

No offense taken....But ... I am the ignorant one who knows nothing. The guy w/ 38 yrs Aviation experience is Rolland who has been helping me. Two separate people.