Tony D Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Old School Assymetrical Grind? Symetrical Grinds were the originals. The Assymetric was added many years down the road when people like Racer Brown did testing on valvetrain dynamics to find that opening and closing ramps contributed greatly to stability when altered from 'straight'... That's the thing about engineering, when you understand the theory behind things, you find that there really isn't much that is truly 'new', it's ALL been around for ALONG time, it's just inadequate command of the knowledge base (or consulting one in the wrong field) that is to blame for holdbacks and myths. If the design of the engine hasn't changed, and the original engineering was sound...there is little likelyhood that unless something truly 'new' has come around that the Old Method is going to give you any less power or be less effective than a new method. In otherwords, Old School when done and engineered correctly, is the ultimate, and nothing 'new' is likely to improve it. Metallurgy is about the only thing that has advanced since the engine was designed, cam profiling from 1970 is likely just as efficient as anything today. Note Sunbelt had 'assymetric grinds'---most grinders did, they were the 'new grinds' compared to most aftermarket stuff that was symmetric---and copied originally from a BMW Cam Profile from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murch240z Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Well, considering I have read comments time and time again about how the industry has had to "re-learn" about asymmetrical grinds I didn't think it was out of the question to term it as "old school." And I didn't say "original school," either, it's fairly obvious that if asymmetrical was "original" then there would be no Racer Brown Article to begin with as it would've been completely unnecessary at the time. Perhaps I'll just refrain from using any unnecessary adjectives entirely from here on out so you won't get the wrong idea about my perspective on the subject, would that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboHLS30 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Not trying to steal your thread or anything but im doing the same thing but mine has triple webers and a cartech turbo kit and was wondering whats the most boost i can run on a stock L24 internals............BTW are you going turbo or N/A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murch240z Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 High compression N/A. If you're going to do a turbo on carbs, I wish you luck. And, btw, I've never heard a good word said about the cartech setup, the general consensus is that the air box is practically worthless. Might as well make yourself a plenum out of plain sheet metal for all the good it'll do you. As I remember it has basically nothing in place to equalize the airflow to each carb, therefore you'll never be able to get it running like it should. And as far as I know stock internals can't be destroyed by 'boost'. It's your resulting power output you need to look at for that answer. I suggest you do LOTS and LOTS of research, make thorough use of the search function here, then do some more searching and research. And just when you think you've got ahold of the subject, research some more. And throw that cartech in the trash. If you want to run a carb'd turbo I suggest you try and find an SKS setup (I seem to remember there being another quality setup but can't remember the brand). The end to pretty much every carb'd turbo build that I've read is "And then I got tired of messing around with it all the time so I went to fuel injection." Or, "I needed the car to be a reliable daily driver so I pulled the turbo off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboHLS30 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Ok thanks for the advice and good luck with the build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (as I remember that being the common sense limit of the L24 block as I don't want to sink the money into sonic testing or sleeving) i know this is off the subject but a guy sonic tested my block that was already bored .20 he said that i have .25 walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetoZeto99 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think this would be an excellent choice for my L24E in my 810... hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostiswhatsfordinner Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 No pictures, no care. Get some up... less typing because a picture is worth a thousand words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 "It's fairly obvious that if asymmetrical was "original" then there would be no Racer Brown Article to begin with as it would've been completely unnecessary at the time." ? Racer Brown's article (read it) explains his camshafts. The original L Grinds are assymetrical. Racer Brown sold his camshafts based on the performance obtained and by educating his customer base. The only thing obvious about his articles is that ignorance regarding the Nissan Camshaft has not changed in the 37 years since they were first printed. Racer Browns assymetric grinds were new-tech to domestic iron in the early 70's, not the Datsun. While he talks in the online articels about the Datsun, like Gene Berg Technical Articles on the VW, the information contained therein can be applied to any engine when dealing with the specifics. And he didn't just sell Datsun Cams. Dodge/Mopar people loved his stuff, and they needed to be educated as well. And the definately used Symetric Cams from Detroit. Man, try to leave some of the attitude at home, jeebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murch240z Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Y'know, it's an interesting experience to check my email and find out that I've been randomly insulted four months after the fact... Okay Tony, I'll bite. Please, point out where my attitude was so out of line in that response I made back in July. Out of a three + paragraph post you picked a single term, "old school," to disagree with and proceeded to lecture me about how ignorant I was when in reality all I was referring to was taking 70s tech head and mating it to the sort of cam that was so effective at that time. A technique that I have seen many people, yourself included, say the mod community has had to "re-learn", i.e. semi-lost knowledge from 40 years ago. To me, that is the very definition of "old school." Even in the face of that perspective, I ceded by allowing that I should refrain from using unnecessary adjectives so as not to confuse people as to my perspective. What attitude? C'mon Tony, I respect the wealth of knowledge that you have, I did my best to be respectful to you in the face of nitpicking that seemed aimed at nothing other than getting a rise out of me, and now FOUR months later you pop into a thread just to claim that I have a bad attitude. So, I have to ask, what is it that you are looking for? If my personality is really that abhorrent to you, why do you persist in making goading responses to me? If you have deemed me unworthy of your knowledge, fine, plenty of people have managed to make fantastic cars without your personal aid. Sure, having access to your wealth of knowledge can make a lot of things easier, but if it means that I have to try and win at a game that I can't make sense of in order to be deemed worthy...the hell with it, I'd prefer if you just ignored my threads/posts completely in that case. I'm finished trying to figure out how to get past the little problem you seem to have with me. If you don't like me, just bloody well ignore me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 ? I don't subscribe to threads (I'm not that obsessed) when they bubble back to the top I take a look. (Note the response date of the 'no pictures, no care' post...) I noted you said 'obviously' and that in counter to what I see the facts of the matter being. Racer Brown educated his customer base, and that was the impetus of his articles. The articles written were done in the early 70's as much for the Mopar Crowd as for general edification of his customer base. I thought this thread was headed for the Tool Shed with the first comments you made in the post. You seemed incredibly dismissive to me, that's all. To classify this as me 'having a problem with you' is not ture at all, it's just your statement that was worthy of a comment. Can you separate that? If you're insulted, that's in your interpretation. You seem to take offense to a lot of the posts. Maybe it's your writing style, or choice of words. Maybe you want to be offended as it gives you reason to reply the way you do. You seem to be dismissing the fact that Nissan Grinds ARE assymetrical, and HAVE BEEN since day one. You then take this misinformation and transfer it to a supposition about the Racer Brown Articles---as if Racer Brown had to write them because the Nissan cams were not Assymetrical---and I am SIMPLY pointing out that he was selling to far more than Datsun Owners. A fact you 'obviously' are choosing to overlook in taking offense to a clarification to the post. 70's Head Tech is the same a 2009 Head Tech. The Cam profiles are the same, nothing has changed. The classification of it as 'new' or 'old' stems from an inability to grasp these points apparently. Like I said, the attitude is old. Really. Jeebus! Again, I responded to this post when it was dredged up to the top and saw that "obviously" comment. (Blame Zeto Zeto for the skullduggery, I have let this post go long ago!) But the reply you made...I felt it deserved comment (since I just saw it). That you are so insulted by such a claryifying post defies logic. The FIRST post you made in response to your FIRST replies showed your attitude, too bad it apparently hasn't changed with time. Maybe this thread (or maybe all my posts in it) can be put where it belongs... This should probably be a PM but with the issues in the internet where I'm at right now, it's alread here so click the reply button... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Murch, you should of let this go. Just the simplicity of hanging on is showing lack of discipline on your part. Control yourself, must you,,, yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Braap, since you have fallen behind on your monthly quotas, you might want to take a look at this,,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murch240z Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tony, the only thing I saw as an insult was your "holier-than-thou" approach to informing me about my "attitude". Yeah, I snapped at the first person that made a post with useless information that I had specifically asked people not to do in my original post. I also apologized for losing my temper. From that point on you took it upon yourself to read pick a single word or phrase from each of my posts to disagree with. Not the concept that the post was trying to portray, just my choice of wording. To that effect I offered to refrain from using unnecessary adjectives that may have been adding to the confusion. Yeah, horrible attitude there. And yeah Tony, I noticed that there were new posts that likely brought this thread back to your attention, did you notice the 4 month old post date? You say a lot of big talk about other peoples attitudes, but it all comes from the top of the same high horse. Perhaps when you stop talking down to everyone I'll want to listen to you. For now, bugger it all, this is freaking pointless. And Woldson, I'm not holding on to anything. I haven't even thought about the silly little back and forth on this thread since, well, JULY when I last posted. I started the thread so apparently it stayed subscribed for me and I checked my email to find Tony telling me I had a bad attitude. Yeah, I responded, how is that holding on to something? I'd say the person that responds to a post with a 4 month old date on it is the one that can't let things go, perhaps you should be directing that at Tony. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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