V8 vs L28/3.1 vs SR20DET

[PanzerAce]

You might want to read this thread as well: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246

 

Puts a lie to the idea that a little four banger is half the weight of a V8

[luckygerman]

That is a very interesting thread. A Complete LS1 V8 weight 490lbs. The SR20DET complete wheight 365lbs. and Im sure if you messure the complete powertrain the marging gets bigger. 130lbs less at the nose of the car is quite a bit. But I never started this thread to diss anyone with a V8 or inline 6, I love it all, Heck if it was up to my wallet I would have one of each, in every color. To me, if I see a Z with a V8 Powertrain it just doesnt do anything for me. I have a 71 Chevelle with a BBC 496c.i. thats has all the power anyone could wish for but for this build i want to go the otherway.

[luckygerman]

First I will remove the powertrain, then the bumpers and trim, basically take it appart to do some bodywork. I'm guessing once I get to that stage it will be 3mos from now. I probably be searching for a SR20DET on Ebay or will build me a 3.1 Stroker which was the original Idea.

[Gollum]

I'm not completely sure those LS1 weights are accurate. To me that looks like a weight with ALL off the stuff you probably won't use bolted to the engine (power steering, AC, etc). That also might be with flywheel and clutch.

 

The reason I say that is because from what I've read the bare weight of an all aluminum LS engine is closer to 400-420 pounds, which isn't far off from the stock L series engine which is much taller and longer.

 

I think the SR is a perfectly good motor option, just like BRAAP I want to make sure you're doing it for the right FACTS regarding the other engine options.

 

The T56 tranny also doesn't cost $2500 if you're comparing to a used SR tranny. I found a LS2 + T56 for rustrocket's project (you can find it in the project section of this site) for well under $2,000. That's darn close to the cost of a SR20DET.

 

But if you're REALLY concerned about weight, then I've got a few more options you should consider.

 

VG30ET. Insanely light iron block motor. Weight is as low as a V8, but even farther back than a 4 cylinder. The engine without turbo weighs almost the same as an all aluminum 4 cylinder. The big upside is that it's a tiny little package that will probably have a CG about half as high as other inline engines. You can look at some dynos of well known setups here:

 

http://www.redz31.net/turbofaq/dyno.graphs.html

 

You'll see that all the guys around the 400hp mark are running stock bottom ends, and stock heads in most cases. You can EASILY reach your 400 wheel hp mark with nothing more than a better turbo, intercooler, fuel, and EPROM tuning.

 

Oh, and you'll have 3.0 liters, giving you a lot more around town torque, and a beefier HP range. That's one reason I love displacement. Not for the added torque, but for the larger HP curve you generally get, as you can make a V8 rev to 7k still, but it starts it's torque curve so much earlier than a smaller displacement engine.

 

 

Also, I would just like to mention that building a 3.1 stroker generally isn't all that cheap.

 

And my last comment, is that weather or not these cars handle well VERY VERY rarely has anything to do with the engine, but the work put into the suspension and chassis setup. You can't expect even the lightest engine to MAKE your car handle well.

 

Hope that was a helpful post for you.

[randy 77zt]

i have been playing with a 2960cc l28 motor for awhile -megasquirt+ all the usual stuuf needed to make a turbo run.the only reason stick with it is because a collected parts over the years for this-before the ls based chevy motors were around.if i was to do it again i would just get a ls 6 liter chevy truck motor and do some minor mods and run it.most of the time when v8 is swapped into the z the added weight(not much) ends up on the rear axle.i am not exactly a hardcore gm guy-i used to be a ford dealer technician.but finding articles in hot rod mags about a 450hp+ v8 that came from an auto wrecker for under $4k (total with minor bolt on mods)and knowing what kind of ft/lbs torque it would make(what you need for that slam you back feeling) i wouldnt mess with a jap motor again.hp doesnt move the car-its ft/lbs of torque.if a guy with a late model vette getsa jump on you at a light and you have a highly boosted jap motor the vette will score at least 2 or 3 and probably 5 car lengthes on you before you get you turbo what ever spooled up.v8 = heavy-i can easily curl a 5.0 ford block if i grab it by the main caps.i have to drag a l28 block to move it.the only problrm with chevy ls type engine is the price of transmission to hook to it.

[Gollum]

You guys are killing me with the price of chevy tranny comments. Just because the motor is so affordable for what it is doesn't make the transmission "expensive". Getting a T56 onto ANY ford engine will cost just about double what it does for the LS chevy engines, used vs used, or new vs new. I routinely see T56 transmissions out of camaros on craigslist for well under 1k, usually closer to the $500 mark than the 1k mark. You can actually FIND those from time to time in wreaking yards even. A good manual 5 speed is also easier and cheaper to find too (let it be known that the T5 for the 5.0 is easy to find, but for anything in a reasonable price it'll probably grenade with sticky tires).

 

I'm not saying it's "cheap", I'm just saying let's make sure it's understood it's not crazy expensive. It CAN be done on a budget if you look around instead of in a catalog.

[BRAAP]

I'm not completely sure those LS1 weights are accurate. To me that looks like a weight with ALL off the stuff you probably won't use bolted to the engine (power steering, AC, etc). That also might be with flywheel and clutch.

 

The reason I say that is because from what I've read the bare weight of an all aluminum LS engine is closer to 400-420 pounds, which isn't far off from the stock L series engine which is much taller and longer.

 

1) Scale in that weighing is NEW, was calibrated new, i.e. IS accurate! hearsay of what others "claim" regarding LS1 weights?!?! Phewy! I put absolutely NO faith in hearsay weight claims!

2) The weight I posted for the complete LS engine was an LM7 not an LS1. The LM7 is the 5.3L iron block variant in the LSx family, the Aluminum block LS1, LS2, LS6, etc, comparably outfitted will be approx 50-60 lbs lighter, so 420 lbs for an LS1, LS2, LS6, (aluminum block LSx), falls right in line with our weighings.

3) A list of the items REMOVED from that engine for those weights was also quoted, labeled as "MINUS", meaning not there, removed, missing from..." such as P/S, A/C, etc.

 

2001 GM Vortec 5.3 RPO LM7; IRON block, WET, with Intake & TB, fuel rail, injectors, all 8 coils, water pump, motor mounts, stock IRON exhaust manifolds. As removed from my wifes 01 Suburban.

 

MINUS;

Flywheel, A/C pump and bracketry, P/S pump and bracketry, Alternator and bracketry.

Scale was zeroed with lifting chains for each weigh;

516.8 lbs.

 

(Pictured edited out, see original thread)

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246

 

Same as above minus IRON exhaust manifolds;

490.4 lbs.

 

(Pictured edited out, see original thread)

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246

 

Same as above minus motor mounts, coils, intake, (just the long block w/water pump and damper);

447.8 lbs.

 

 

The T56 tranny also doesn't cost $2500 if you're comparing to a used SR tranny. I found a LS2 + T56 for rustrocket's project (you can find it in the project section of this site) for well under $2,000. That's darn close to the cost of a SR20DET.

 

.

 

As Gollum mentioned, LSx T-56’s go for well under $2000. You can regularly find them for $1500 in excellent condition. Picked up my LSx low mile T-56 out of an ’01 WS6, with LS6 flywheel and clutch (less than 500 miles on the clutch and flywheel), for $1650!

Edited July 27, 2009 by BRAAP

[Northstarninja]

Sorry to dig up old thread, but...I wonder if he ever considered a VQ series motor... I'd imagine they're pretty light, low COG etc etc...

[ModernS30]

Sorry to dig up old thread, but...I wonder if he ever considered a VQ series motor... I'd imagine they're pretty light, low COG etc etc...

 

Oh you are so about to get flamed. SEARCH http://sites.google.com/a/vq240z.com/www/twistedsixx

 

user name on here is 240hoke. Have you ever tried youtube? You will find stuff on there as well.

[Northstarninja]

Oh you are so about to get flamed. SEARCH http://sites.google.com/a/vq240z.com/www/twistedsixx

 

user name on here is 240hoke. Have you ever tried youtube? You will find stuff on there as well.

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. I KNOW the vq swap has been done, I researched it as a swap for my Z. I was simply wondering if the OP ever considered it since it wasn't mentioned...

[Gollum]

It's usually better to bring up old dead threads, asking simple questions, rather than starting new threads asking questions that have been asked time and time again. You obviously did some searching by finding this thread, and for that I commend you.

 

 

I can't speak for the original poster, but I can definitely mention that the VQ prices have changed dramatically in recent years, so it's consideration over other swaps is in an unstable state. I think eventually (maybe not long from now) the VQ will be a cheaper swap than the L28ET, and other swaps using engines that have long since ended production runs. Though this post isn't incredibly old, the OP might just not be aware of current VQ prices.