Best way to clean a long block

[ukcats07]

As the title suggests, I'm trying to clean a long block that my father bought for me. It's a 302, bored .040 over, that has some surface rust on the valvetrain and intake surfaces. The manifold ports have been exposed as well, due to the intake not being bolted on, so I don't know what might have fallen in them.

 

Am I going to have to take the heads off to make sure this block is clean? I'll post some pics in a little bit (I'm about to go play golf ) for all to see.

 

Thanks in advance

[BillZ260]

You might as well tear it all the way down and see what's what with everything. Take the block in to a good machine shop, have it cleaned and checked out, get a set of new set of bearings, paint it and put it back together. That way you KNOW that there isn't trash or other issues with the bottom end.

[ukcats07]

Thanks Bill

Do you have a ballpark estimate on what this might put me back? I should add that the engine was purchased from my grandpa's neighbor, so I do have some reachback on what was done to the block. I would really rather not pull it all apart, but it might be a good idea just to get an idea of the quality of work the previous machine shop did.

 

Here's some pics I just took, not great but should give you an idea of what I'm seeing

 

 

 

 

[nismo kid]

I'd take all apart and take it to a machine shop. Then have them hone it, hot tank it and maybe even bead blast it. The local shop by me told me to clean it one more time when I got home with it with Power Purple.(you can find it at walmart in auto section, or any auto store) After you have done this paint it what ever color you wanted it to be and place it back together.

[WizardBlack]

Hmm, you could probably make judicious use of compressed air, a flexible LED light, etc. Drop some oil down in the plug holes before rotating. Take a brush to the rocker threads to get them cleaned up. Buzz the mating surfaces smooth. Drop the oil pan and inspect the rotating assembly. The lifter bores and cam surfaces are probably the iffy part. We can't tell from the photos. Very light rust could be rubbed (in a motion directional manner) with WD40 and the lightest scotch brite.

I guess a lot of it depends on whether this is an 'on the cheap' kinda "oh well if it doesn't work out" kind of thing. If I was putting it in a car, I'd just take it apart, get a new gasket kit and have a machine shop hot tank and clean up the critical surfaces.

[ukcats07]

Thanks all. This is kind of an "on the cheap" and a "let's do it right" build mixed together. I think just to be safe I'll strip the block and have a machine shop hot tank and clean up as needed. This will be my first engine teardown (not new to working on cars, just never got into the internals of the engine) so I'm kind of nervous to mess anything up. I've got plenty of reading material that I've already shot through (JTR, Haynes, How to rebuild the small block ford) that should help me through this.

 

The How to Rebuild a Small Block Ford book has a good list of items to discuss with the machinist when performing a rebuild, but I don't think I need everything on that list. Unfortunately I'm at work and can't recite it verbatim, but I'm assuming some of the things I would want the machinist to look at would be:

 

-Bore size

-deck "trueness"

-drawing a blank on anything else

 

I'm not trying to sink a ton of money into this block but I do want it to be serviceable.

 

Side note, do I need to disassemble the heads before having them cleaned or will the shop clean with with the valve springs, etc. on them?

 

I appreciate the responses. BTW, just picked up a T5 today for a good price off craigslist:). Closer to getting this going...

[WizardBlack]

I personally doubt the heads and block are untrue; I thought this was rebuilt before it went into "hibernation" or somesuch? Or was it pulled from a car due to a problem?

The rebuild books could mislead someone doing their first rebuild because they will probably cover every aspect of check/repair since lots of the guys buying the books are doing circle track racing or bracket racing, etc. and want to blueprint their engine.

I would have them simply look at it for trueness, hot tank it, etc. You can have them disassemble, but that's a pretty easy thing to do yourself and you will have to reassemble it anyways, so it's a cheap and easy start for you. Jeg's should have a couple cheap tools for small block F and C to get the valvetrain apart easily by yourself. Small blocks are actually pretty easy all around to DIY.

[ukcats07]

You were reading right wizard, it is a rebuilt motor, not one just pulled out of a car. I just don't know exactly what was done to it besides that it was bored over 0.040.

 

The more I've been looking at the motor, the more I think that I should be able to just take the heads off, disassemble them and have them cleaned. At that point I would be able to see the cylinders and the top of the pistons and clean with comp. air appropriately. The bottom end looks fine (no surface rust) and still has a ton of assembly lube from the rebuild. If I take the heads off and the cylinder walls and deck don't look peachy then I'll disassemble and bring the block, etc. to the machinist.

 

Sound like a plan, or should I reconsider not taking it all apart?

 

Thanks for the responses.

[DiscoPotatoe]

You were reading right wizard, it is a rebuilt motor, not one just pulled out of a car. I just don't know exactly what was done to it besides that it was bored over 0.040.

 

The more I've been looking at the motor, the more I think that I should be able to just take the heads off, disassemble them and have them cleaned. At that point I would be able to see the cylinders and the top of the pistons and clean with comp. air appropriately. The bottom end looks fine (no surface rust) and still has a ton of assembly lube from the rebuild. If I take the heads off and the cylinder walls and deck don't look peachy then I'll disassemble and bring the block, etc. to the machinist.

 

Sound like a plan, or should I reconsider not taking it all apart?

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

well if i were you id do like i just did to an engine i bought that was "rebuilt"

 

I bought a complete gasket set

Took EVERYTHING APART labeled all the parts the engine i was supposed to be getting was supposed to be bored .020 over come to find out it was bored .040 over

 

Checked all the bearings on the crank pulled and checked all the lobes on the camshaft and 1 was severely worn down so i replaced the cam and bought a complete lifter set.

 

I actually sand blasted my engine since it had 5 different coats of paint on it ended up using the duplicolor 1200 degree primer and black paint

 

Used a strait edge to check the trueness of the heads and block surfaces luckily they were completely flat.

 

reassembled everything with assembly lube and luca's

 

Lapped the valves and put the heads all together.

 

I recomend you going over the block yourself because you never know what someone actually sold you unless you see it for yourself... i know a few people who buy engines from advance auto and 1-3 pistons are different bores its their " bandage job "

 

I also ended up replacing the oil pump just to protect my investment. i picked my engine up for 150 bucks invested a minimal 900 and this engine is bassically rebuilt all over again with a (new timing chain, cam , lifters , springs and retainers) bought as a kit.

[BillZ260]

Take it apart and see what you have, having the block vatted is about 50 bucks and if all it needs is a hone and new rings then you'd be going for less than 200 bucks (The hone and new bearings should be less than 150 or so) and you would know what you have. If it needs more, complete motor machine work will run you around 600+ if you need everything done including balancing and all that jive.

 

I would not trust that motor, don't care who I got it from, that from dealing with 4 different guys before i found a decent block to rebuild, let alone putting it in my car and running with it.

[ukcats07]

Thanks Bill, Disco

 

Reason and logic have prevailed over my desire to do things lazily. I'll take the motor apart and learn some things in the process. I've got the How to Rebuild a Small Block Ford by George Reid book with great color pictures so it shouldn't be that big of a learning curve. Couple of questions:

 

1. Assume that I take it to the machine shop and everything that I have now checks out OK. What can I safely re-use (nuts, bolts, etc.) when I take this apart and re-assemble?

 

2. Piston rings and bearings were mentioned. If both rings and bearings are basically new, should I replace them anyway?

 

Thanks in advance

Doug

 

Admins, feel free to move if this needs to be in the powerplant section.

[DiscoPotatoe]

Thanks Bill, Disco

 

Reason and logic have prevailed over my desire to do things lazily. I'll take the motor apart and learn some things in the process. I've got the How to Rebuild a Small Block Ford by George Reid book with great color pictures so it shouldn't be that big of a learning curve. Couple of questions:

 

1. Assume that I take it to the machine shop and everything that I have now checks out OK. What can I safely re-use (nuts, bolts, etc.) when I take this apart and re-assemble?

 

2. Piston rings and bearings were mentioned. If both rings and bearings are basically new, should I replace them anyway?

 

Thanks in advance

Doug

 

Admins, feel free to move if this needs to be in the powerplant section.

 

Well i just cleaned up the head bolts and my bearings did seem to be in great condition still so i just reused them... all the intake bolts and stuff like that i replaced with stainless bolts just because i had them laying around for cosmetic reasons...but i could have used the originals.

 

The main thing you'll need to do is make sure you torque everything down to spec.

 

Something I've just learned to do after a while building Jap engines is to torque things down in steps like if its 80 that im supposed to torque the head down to i go 40 first doing the pattern 60 then 80. Its probably not nessesary but its just somthing ive grown accustomed to.

[WizardBlack]

Just be careful replacing with stainless. It is softer than some metals and may not hold up in certain locations.

I do the same thing regarding torque.

[ukcats07]

Looks like I've got ARP bolts throughout the bottom end and the cylinder heads. I know that they are torqued to a different spec. How do I find that spec. if I don't know exactly which ones I got? Should I just use the factory torque, or am I setting myself up for something to go wrong?

 

Thanks again

[WizardBlack]

Looks like I've got ARP bolts throughout the bottom end and the cylinder heads. I know that they are torqued to a different spec. How do I find that spec. if I don't know exactly which ones I got? Should I just use the factory torque, or am I setting myself up for something to go wrong?

 

Thanks again

 

Call ARP tech and they will tell you precisely.

[ukcats07]

Call ARP tech and they will tell you precisely.

 

Thanks, will do.

 

For anyone still interested in this post, I took the motor apart tonight ...first one, yay!

 

Everything looked brand new. The bearings are obviously still new, the crank rotated nice and smooth with no pistons (still pretty smooth with them), cylinder walls have a nice cross-hatch and look otherwise brand new. I haven't miked anything yet so I don't know clearances and what-not, but it's on the list of things to do. Suggestions on what clearances I should check while I got this out? I've heard about plastiguage, what's that and should I be using it?

 

Lot's of questions from this first timer. I appreciate everyone's help and patience..

 

 

Pics below

 

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa58/dgsr2002/302%20teardown/