jacob80 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hey guys, It seems like we've been having a lot of trouble with timing and not getting the advance we want yada yada yada but in this thread, I am going to try and make an attempt to confirm and re-confirm (if that is a word) that my timing is right. First things first, let start with some hard evidence. These photos are taken with the engine at TDC. First off, let start with the pulley. It is a performance products pulley for I assume a 240z. I assume this because of the multiple tick marks on the pulley, but I only use the bottom-most one (shown in the picture) due to the fact that there are timing marks on the front cover as shown. Oh and the wire is at 5 BTDC for reference for megasquirt cranking calibration. The next picture is of the distributor shaft. I have aligned this in the position that is commonly shown in the field service manuals and online. Just trying to confirm everything is right. If may be too far clockwise Here is the cam front lobe at 2 o clock (if you're looking from the front of the engine 10 o clock Here is the distributor housing (or whatever its called that my finger is on) turned all the way counterclockwise All the way clockwise Here is a photo of the distributor and its wiring. This is the proper position of the distributor correct? I'm using the CAS black box thing (ha) as a reference Then this has always been a gray area, is this some sort of ground? Not sure if it is supposed to be hookup up to something or what... If something doesn't seem right to you guys point it out if you would, I just want to confirm that we have everything in right. As far as the red line on the distributor, it was there when we received it but we were never sure if it was accurate so who knows. I'm sure you guys do, so just let me know, thank you!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech9 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I wish I could help you, but this is the reason I moved away from distributors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I've tried to mount the dizzy housing the other way and it won't work because the cap is offset and if you flip it, the cap won't align with the housing holes if the cap is orientated in the proper direction, so you have that on correctly. I don't have a ground on that post and I haven't had problems with it. I might be missing something but isn't your rotor phasing off? I had to re-align mine a couple of times, if the motor is at TDC the rotor should be aligned with the red line you have shown. The dizzy shaft has a "dot" in it which needs to be aligned with the notch in the oil pump. The notch also has a dot in it IIRC. This is a PITA because you have to pull the sway bar [i have a ST sway bar and its hard to get back on] to get the oil pump off, but it couldn't hurt to check. It was easy to get out of line for me as the crank can turn the shaft off of alignment, you just need to be careful. Align the holes, rotate the whole thing carefully, then have someone check to see that the rotor is on that red line before you tighten the pump all the way [in case you have to do it again.] Once again sorry if I'm missing something. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I've tried to mount the dizzy housing the other way and it won't work because the cap is offset and if you flip it, the cap won't align with the housing holes if the cap is orientated in the proper direction, so you have that on correctly. I don't have a ground on that post and I haven't had problems with it. I might be missing something but isn't your rotor phasing off? I had to re-align mine a couple of times, if the motor is at TDC the rotor should be aligned with the red line you have shown. The dizzy shaft has a "dot" in it which needs to be aligned with the notch in the oil pump. The notch also has a dot in it IIRC. This is a PITA because you have to pull the sway bar [i have a ST sway bar and its hard to get back on] to get the oil pump off, but it couldn't hurt to check. It was easy to get out of line for me as the crank can turn the shaft off of alignment, you just need to be careful. Align the holes, rotate the whole thing carefully, then have someone check to see that the rotor is on that red line before you tighten the pump all the way [in case you have to do it again.] Once again sorry if I'm missing something. Good luck. I do believe the shaft is off because here is the photo from the field service manual: If I drop the pump and turn it counter-clockwise (as you're looking at the bottom of the shaft), it should put me where I want, correct? And as far as lining up with the red line on our distributor, is that when the body is turned fully counterclockwise? I would think that is the only way it would align... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I do believe the shaft is off because here is the photo from the field service manual: If I drop the pump and turn it counter-clockwise (as you're looking at the bottom of the shaft), it should put me where I want, correct? And as far as lining up with the red line on our distributor, is that when the body is turned fully counterclockwise? I would think that is the only way it would align... Yes, but don't do it by "eyeballing" it. Like I said, align the two holes up [the dot on the shaft is right above the bottom gear], twist it carefully, and have someone look above and confirm that it's in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I really don't think it matters if your two marks on the shaft and oil pump line up does it?as long as the shaft orientation is right you're good right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 How has it been working out for you so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tech9 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 You might have trouble getting the right timing if your shaft is off too much, but 1 tooth you can "maybe" get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 How has it been working out for you so far You're probably right buy honestly, think about it, what is the reason for lining up the two dots vs dropping the pump and adjusting it not regarding the dots but still getting the alignment right? I've always been in the dark about the whole lining up of the two marks thing, could you fill me in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well You can try it but I was sure to get it 100% correct because my Suspension Techniques Sway Bar is a major pain to get back on the chassis. I'll snap a picture later today of an extra oil pump when I go up to the shop today. It is a kernel shaped indention in the fuel pump, the top of the / points to where the dot on the oil pump shaft should go. You just need to line those two up. I need to make a tuning run and go out to get some parts for the shop so hopefully I can upload some pictures for you tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Where is the #1 plug wire terminal on the distributor cap in relation to the rotor? Is it lined up? Are you getting a signal to MS when you crank it? With a timing light what is the timing? It looks like the Powerforce damper is lining up with the timing tab correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 if you swap parts around you should use a degree wheel and piston stop to find true tdc.the old nissan dampeners can spin a bit.or the pointer might not match your dampener.then check your timing with a good timing light-does it match what your ecm is telling your computor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 exactlt what zya said , I had trouble with this with a distributor. With the cap on make sure thats 1 than 1 5 3 6 2 4 --> in the direction the rotor spins. Pull Fuel injector clips off put in spark plugs and wires. Crank her up see when/where the timing light flashes. Adjust it through the MS wizard. you want it cranking at 15-20 btdc thats all. IF you get no spark then you got other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Ok so I finally got my timing sorted out. The lights on the ECU box werent coming on so I just locked down the distributor where the pump pump primed when I turned it. Apparently, it did the trick because it is spot on. Now to tune it, which I am having trouble keeping it running but hopefully I'll be able to figure it out. You guys have any advice on the tuning procedure, mainly establishing a good idle? It seems like if I don't feather on the gas it tries to stay alive then just quits when it feels like it but if I do stay on the gas it'll stay running for a little bit then just stumble and quit because I think I am dumping too much fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 First, be sure that the timing in the timing table matches what you measure with a timing light. Play with the required fuel to get it warmed up and idling smooth. Then set the timing bin where the engine is idling to 10 deg. Then use your timing light to check the actual timing. If it is off, then adjust the trim angle so that timing in the timing table matches the actual timing measured with a light. Then start adjusting fuel bins that you can without driving the car by moving the throttle throughout the load band. You calibrated the TPS, right? If not do that. Then start adjusting the enrichment settings. After that, you need to drive and log, adjust, repeat. Or get it on a dyno. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 First, be sure that the timing in the timing table matches what you measure with a timing light. Play with the required fuel to get it warmed up and idling smooth. Then set the timing bin where the engine is idling to 10 deg. Then use your timing light to check the actual timing. If it is off, then adjust the trim angle so that timing in the timing table matches the actual timing measured with a light. Then start adjusting fuel bins that you can without driving the car by moving the throttle throughout the load band. You calibrated the TPS, right? If not do that. Then start adjusting the enrichment settings. After that, you need to drive and log, adjust, repeat. Or get it on a dyno. Pete So the req fuel won't necessarily be what is calculated by inputting your injectors sizes and all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 It should be, but I find that you can really smooth out the idle by adjusting the required fuel before tuning the VE table. It is basically moving the entire fuel map, so don't change it after tuning the VE table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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