The Ultimate HID Headlight Upgrade the easy way!

[Bartman]

So dealing with customer service hasn't been much fun. We've been trading several emails and it seems evident that they really don't have a clue. Hopefully they'll figure it out, or I'll have to figure out how good they're return policy really is.

 

I've tried every combination of wires between the factory harness and the HID harness to no avail. I've even only provided power to one at a time which resulted in high beams and no lights when switching between high and low.

 

Here's a pic of my bulb with the lights turned on, and it's the same whether the brights are on or not.

The bulbs extend out when the light turns on and they jump a little when I switch between high and low, but they still stay extended. It appears that the light goes back to it's normal position before they turn off, therefore I see the correct lighting just before they actually shut off.

[FricFrac]

So it sounds like the solenoids are being turned on all the time. What happens when you disconnect the relay plug from one of the lights when its on? It should go back to low beam. Its possible there is a problem with the relay itself from the factory.

 

Verify your voltages though as things may not work if the voltages are off. Measure the input from the battery to the relay, voltage at the end of the solenoid plug and the voltage at your old wiring harness for the stock bulbs in both high and low beam on both sides.

[B00STDZ]

http://www.futurevisionhid.com/

 

Seems like a good hid website...

[Bartman]

So it sounds like the solenoids are being turned on all the time. What happens when you disconnect the relay plug from one of the lights when its on? It should go back to low beam. Its possible there is a problem with the relay itself from the factory.

 

Verify your voltages though as things may not work if the voltages are off. Measure the input from the battery to the relay, voltage at the end of the solenoid plug and the voltage at your old wiring harness for the stock bulbs in both high and low beam on both sides.

FricFrac, you appear to have a better understanding of HID lighting that the customer service people I've dealt with so far. I disconnected the relay plug from one of the lights - and it went to low beam! so I think there is a good possibility that there is a problem with the relay. I haven't measured any voltages yet.

[Bartman]

So here's a shot of the beam pattern with the high beams disconnected

The cut-off isn't too bad, but the color of one side looks different than the other. Here's a shot from the front

Again there seems to be a difference between the sides.

 

I took this last shot because it's the opposite of what I expected to see.

The light seems to be coming out of only the top half of the housing, and I expected it to only come out of the bottom half. Putting my hand in front of the bottom part of the housing had no affect on the light pattern, while putting my hand in front of the top half clearly affected the light output.

[FricFrac]

So here's a shot of the beam pattern with the high beams disconnected

 

The cut-off isn't too bad, but the color of one side looks different than the other. Here's a shot from the front

 

Again there seems to be a difference between the sides.

 

I took this last shot because it's the opposite of what I expected to see.

The light seems to be coming out of only the top half of the housing, and I expected it to only come out of the bottom half. Putting my hand in front of the bottom part of the housing had no affect on the light pattern, while putting my hand in front of the top half clearly affected the light output.

 

It doesn't matter where the light comes out - its where it ends up As long as you aren't blinding oncoming traffic is the first thing. It looks like the beam pattern is very tight - I'd like to see it more spread out over the horizon. Regardless it looks like its safe and you'll have to determine if it works for you on the roads. It is strange that the shape of the beam is a little different between the two but again its not a show stopper.

 

As for trouble shooting your problem we need to figure out why the relay isn't working or is "stuck on". Try disconnecting the input from the headlights to the relay harness and see what happens. Was there any wiring instructions, etc with the kit? We should be able to give the relay a signal from a ground and +12V and see if we can get the relay to turn off and on. What colours are the wires coming from the relay harness that plugs into the stock headlight harness?

 

Rear of bulb

 

+-------+

+ Low +

| G... H |

| n.... i |

| d....g |

+.... h +

 

So that's the pinout for the H4 bulb. You should be able to hook a ground up to the HID harness and +12V to the low and you should get low beams. Move the +12V to the high side and you should get high beams. Your harness plug should look the same as the back of your sealed beam or an H4 bulb with three male blade connectors. The pinout of the HID harness plug is the same as your sealed beams so holding onto the HID harness plug with the blades facing you should look like the pinout above. The ground on your left, low beam on top and high beam on your right. The wire coming out of the left side should be black (standard for common or ground).

[RB26powered74zcar]

Not sure if this is relevant, but I remember being told when I had a guy make a relay harness way back (another set up) that these cars have a strange headlight ground set up. Something like opposite of the way it would normally be... ??? Just throwing this out there.

 

Good luck guys... I'm sure you'll get it here shortly.

[FricFrac]

Could be that they switch the ground on or vice versa. I think its most common to switch the ground on (well with solid state stuff) so it could be that they are switching power on instead? Either way once everything is turned on it gives you the same results.

 

I was thinking though it would be interesting to see what the resistance between the ground side of the input to the HID harness and your ground points for the HID ballast is....

[Bartman]

So here's my very bizarre test results. The plug is labelled from the factory like this:

 

ground on the left, drive on the right, and pass on the bottom

 

Here's what happens when low beams are turned on:

 

power on the left, power on the right, and ground on the bottom

 

Here's what happens when high beams are turned on:

 

power on the left, ground on the right, and nothing on the bottom

 

My voltmeter isn't digital nor very accurate, but all voltages seem to be the same. These results are nothing like what I expected - especially since the ground moves and the halogens work fine. So knowing this I should be able to provide external ground and move around the other wires to make it work properly.

[bjhines]

If you look carefully at the diagrams...

 

The left and right headlights are fed fused power from individual fuses(top 2 fuses on the right side for 240Zs). The power to the left light is RY(red with yellow stripe). The power to the right light is R(red only).

 

There are 2 wire colors(RW red/white stripe) and(RB red/black stripe) that are common to both headlights. They lead back to the comb switch which first switches high or low beams and then goes through the on off portion of the switch.

 

To sum up; power is fed individually to the left and right lights, but the headlight switch grounds highbeams or lowbeams from a pair of Y-harnesses in the front clip.

 

The problem here is that the switch contacts are dealing with the load from BOTH HEADLIGHTS through a SINGLE contact. You have 2x 10 amp fuses(20amps) running through either the high or low switch contact.

 

You need to rethink the wiring for this to work well. power distro and relays come to mind.

[Bartman]

If you look carefully at the diagrams...

 

The left and right headlights are fed fused power from individual fuses(top 2 fuses on the right side for 240Zs). The power to the left light is RY(red with yellow stripe). The power to the right light is R(red only).

 

There are 2 wire colors(RW red/white stripe) and(RB red/black stripe) that are common to both headlights. They lead back to the comb switch which first switches high or low beams and then goes through the on off portion of the switch.

 

To sum up; power is fed individually to the left and right lights, but the headlight switch grounds highbeams or lowbeams from a pair of Y-harnesses in the front clip.

 

The problem here is that the switch contacts are dealing with the load from BOTH HEADLIGHTS through a SINGLE contact. You have 2x 10 amp fuses(20amps) running through either the high or low switch contact.

 

You need to rethink the wiring for this to work well. power distro and relays come to mind.

I don't think the problem is that a single contact is being used for both headlights,as they're only being used to activate a relay. The power for the headlights is now coming directly from the battery and not going through the switch at all.

 

I think I understand why the Halogen and stock lights work, but it's contrary to what's marked on the connector. The black wire connected to the blade marked 'ground' on the connector is actually power. The red wire with the black stripe connected to the blade marked 'pass' gets ground when the low beams are switched on. When high beams are selected the connector still gets power at the blade marked 'ground' and gets ground from the red wire with the white stripe connected to the blade markes 'drive'.

 

So it appears that the new relay with the HID kit doesn't like getting ground where it expects power, and getting power from where it expects ground. Has anyone else run into this?

 

I could buy 2 more relays and install them such that they are activated by getting ground. One from the red wire with the black stripe and the other from the red wire with the white stripe. I already installed relays wired this way since my fans are activated by ground from the PCM.

[Oddjob]

 

So it appears that the new relay with the HID kit doesn't like getting ground where it expects power, and getting power from where it expects ground. Has anyone else run into this?

 

If the relays are electro-mechanical, it wouldn't matter.

 

If they are solid state, they will object strongly.

 

Any idea which you have? (Electro-mechanical will make a sound when energized, solid state won't.)

[Bartman]

If the relays are electro-mechanical, it wouldn't matter.

 

If they are solid state, they will object strongly.

 

Any idea which you have? (Electro-mechanical will make a sound when energized, solid state won't.)

I don't know for sure, but FricFrac thought they were solid state based on the picture I took when I first received the shipment.

 

Fixing the wiring would be much easier if the low beams didn't provide power to two of the connector blades. Using two relays will still probably solve the problem (activated by ground), but there should be an easier way.

[Oddjob]

Well, if they are solid state, and one side of the relay "coil" is internally wired, that would explain all of your symptoms. The easiest fix would be to bring both sides of the relay "coil" out so you can make your own connections with the correct polarity. The trouble with that route is it will almost certainly void your warranty.

[FricFrac]

Well, if they are solid state, and one side of the relay "coil" is internally wired, that would explain all of your symptoms. The easiest fix would be to bring both sides of the relay "coil" out so you can make your own connections with the correct polarity. The trouble with that route is it will almost certainly void your warranty.

 

Yes it looks like its a solid state relay from first glance. Agreed as well MOST electro-mechanical relays will work both ways (unless they have a snubber diode across the coil). The main thing is when you hook the HID harness up to the stock lighting harness that the black wires match each other....

[Oddjob]

I don't know for sure, but FricFrac thought they were solid state based on the picture I took when I first received the shipment.

 

Fixing the wiring would be much easier if the low beams didn't provide power to two of the connector blades. Using two relays will still probably solve the problem (activated by ground), but there should be an easier way.

 

After thinking about it overnight, I think you may well solve this by adding another relay or two, on the signal/power side of the ballast/relays. This might not be for the reason you were considering. You would use the additional relay(s) to reverse the polarity to the signal line on your ballast. Here's why:

 

Solid state relays tend to come in two general flavors, three pinouts and four pinouts. I'm speculating you have threes, wherein one connection to the "coil" and one to the load are in common, and therefore the same polarity. The HID designers probably designed this circuit for the most common situation, which is switched positive on this pin. Trouble is, the Z is switched negative. If this is the problem, you probably can't fix it any other way than to reverse the polarity on this pin using a relay ahead of the input to this third pin. Four pin relays are usually used in controlling high voltage AC with low voltage, so you probably don't have those.

[Oddjob]

Yes it looks like its a solid state relay from first glance. Agreed as well MOST electro-mechanical relays will work both ways (unless they have a snubber diode across the coil). The main thing is when you hook the HID harness up to the stock lighting harness that the black wires match each other....

 

You are correct. I was trying to keep it simple. Probably 80% of the electro-mechanical relays you run into will not have a snubber. Another 10% will have a fixed resistor to bleed off the worst of the reverse EMF spike, and only 10% will have a snubber diode to completely block the spike. Only the 10% with the diode are polarity sensitive.

 

The relays on my own project Z's lighting do have snubbers, but I'm well-known for overbuilding everything....

[Bartman]

After thinking about it overnight, I think you may well solve this by adding another relay or two, on the signal/power side of the ballast/relays. This might not be for the reason you were considering. You would use the additional relay(s) to reverse the polarity to the signal line on your ballast. Here's why:

 

Solid state relays tend to come in two general flavors, three pinouts and four pinouts. I'm speculating you have threes, wherein one connection to the "coil" and one to the load are in common, and therefore the same polarity. The HID designers probably designed this circuit for the most common situation, which is switched positive on this pin. Trouble is, the Z is switched negative. If this is the problem, you probably can't fix it any other way than to reverse the polarity on this pin using a relay ahead of the input to this third pin. Four pin relays are usually used in controlling high voltage AC with low voltage, so you probably don't have those.

I've been thinking about this as well and have reached a similar conclusion.

 

I'm going to change the wiring where the HID kit connects to the stock headlight connector. I'll give it constant gound from another source and provide it power for the low beams with the wire that was already in the stock connector that has power when both high and low beams are switched on. The high beams will get the power it needs by taking the wire that changes to ground when the high beams are switched on and wiring it through a new relay like this:

This will change the ground trigger supply to a power output.

[Bartman]

So I switched the wiring per my previous post and everything works perfectly. I don't know if my wiring is different than other Z's, but if your car is wired like mine - you should be able to easily hook up this HID kit or any other one with a solid state relay.

 

As far as VVME is concerned they seem to have a good product at a very reasonable price. On the down side their customer support people are clueless! They do respond, but they don't have any good information to provide. They wanted me to send the relay back, but I would have had to send it back to China on my dime before they would send another one out.

[FricFrac]

Excellent - very good information. Thanks for being the guinea pig on this one Bartman and toughing it out with the trouble shooting instead of sending it back. This should save a lot of people grief with solid state relays for the HID kits and for other applications as well.