jtburf Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 As the title implies I needed to get rid of a 40 Gallon strong Custic Soda solution, well after much debate we opted not simply pour it out instead I have a drain cleanout under the kitched sink (exterior). I went to Home Depot and purchased several fittings that would allow me to seal the cleanout and attach a garden hose to it. I had a cheap pump from one of my old fish tanks (will be home made parts washer pump soon) I attached the garden hose to the pump, other end to the new drain fittings and presto 15 min's later my drain pipes are now root free and I have my 40 gallon trashcan back... On another note I used about 8 pounds of soda and 40 gallons of water for the solution. I soaked the gas tank, all lower control arms, and anything else I had which will be repainted before I reinstall. The moral of this story is plan your disposal before you fill your barrel!!! Hope it helps... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I would say your nearest hazardous waste disposal site, would take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yea for about $300 a drum, or you could go buy some acid and neutralize it and dump it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yea for about $300 a drum, or you could go buy some acid and neutralize it and dump it. That depends on where you go, I have a site down here that charges $200 per 100 gallons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 I went to Home Depot and purchased several fittings that would allow me to seal the cleanout and attach a garden hose to it. I had a cheap pump from one of my old fish tanks (will be home made parts washer pump soon) I attached the garden hose to the pump, other end to the new drain fittings and presto 15 min's later my drain pipes are now root free and I have my 40 gallon trashcan back... Guys a couple questions, 1. How was I going to move a 320# trash can full of this soultion? 2. Why buy an acid to nuturalize when I would still needed to pour it out. 3. Did you not read the quote above where for just a few dollars I made a fitting, and flushed my homes sewer pipes and disposed of the soultion? I call that a win win deal. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 So you flushed it down the sewer line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 So you flushed it down the sewer line? Yes, it is a sewer pipe cleaner... I know your going to say hey that is a no brainer... Message in the orginal post is think about disposal before making a 300 pound batch that you cannot move.... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 That makes since, just be careful with it... Here are some burns my dad sustained summer 08. http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/pyrosparks911/0724081420.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/pyrosparks911/0724081421.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's certainly not nice to have splashing around, I use caustic soda to burn the calves horn buds so the horns don't grow as they get older... get it on yourself and it stings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 That makes since, just be careful with it... Here are some burns my dad sustained summer 08. http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/pyrosparks911/0724081420.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/pyrosparks911/0724081421.jpg Holy Crapola, did your dad heal up ok?... I had a few very small splashes but we always had the water running when we messed with the Soda to flush our skin. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yea it was a freak accident. We were inside a tank trailer that had a load of 6 oil in it, would not come clean. Got in with these degreaser and sprayed it inside, it ran down off the roofs, on our chem suits, and into his boots. The degreaser had caustic as a main ingredient. He had his suit tucked in his boots. We pulled him out real fast and washed his feet of for an hour and he let them soak in a bucket for awhile. Everything looked fine. Then the next day they just opened up like in the pics, he couldn't walk for like a month, but he is fine now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yea it was a freak accident. We were inside a tank trailer that had a load of 6 oil in it, would not come clean. Got in with these degreaser and sprayed it inside, it ran down off the roofs, on our chem suits, and into his boots. The degreaser had caustic as a main ingredient. He had his suit tucked in his boots. We pulled him out real fast and washed his feet of for an hour and he let them soak in a bucket for awhile. Everything looked fine. Then the next day they just opened up like in the pics, he couldn't walk for like a month, but he is fine now. Great to hear he is alright.. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I have a small winery. We use cuastic all the time to clean the stainless tanks. We just nuetralise it with citric acid untill we get a pH between 6 and 8 and irrigate the olives with it. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 ZROSSA got it, all you needed to do was get some HTH from a Pool Supply company, and mix acid with it until the PH was near neutral, and then it could be LEGALLY sewered, even in California. Dumping it raw down the pipes was not... uh... well... I wouldn't have done that. Neutralization is simple enough. You just turn it into salt water. Basic Highschool Chemistry. (Get it Basic Chemistry?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 ZROSSA got it, all you needed to do was get some HTH from a Pool Supply company, and mix acid with it until the PH was near neutral, and then it could be LEGALLY sewered, even in California. Dumping it raw down the pipes was not... uh... well... I wouldn't have done that. Neutralization is simple enough. You just turn it into salt water. Basic Highschool Chemistry. (Get it Basic Chemistry?) Ok so please tell me how pouring "drain cleaner" down my drain was/is Illegal. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ok so please tell me how pouring "drain cleaner" down my drain was/is Illegal. John he's actually got a point with this one. it IS just drain cleaner, but it's probably WAY too strong. play it safe though, and neutralize it with acid before you do anything. Caustic soda is nasty stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 No, he does not have a point. There is a REASON he puts drain cleaner in quotations. It's an OBVIOUS ploy at trying to be smart, which isnt' the case here at all. You want it plain and simple: you violated any one of a number of federal guidelines relating to unpermitted disposal of industrial wastes. BTW, where did you find the 55 Gallon size liquid plumbr drum at Costco? There is a reason they limit it to maybe a gallon. You are NOT on an industrial sewer, you are on a residential service. Look again at what is permissible in your sewer and likely you will find that you are in SERIOUS violation of not only FEDERAL but LOCAL guidelines as well. It's not the matter of what you interpret the substance to be, the VOLUME of what you used was a violation, and that it was NOT used as a drain cleaner, but was by your own admission a byproduct of an industrial process (not wise on a public forum, BTW) means you knowingly violated statutes by disposing of industrial waste byproducts improperly in a residential sewer system. You're talking to the guy who was responsible for continuous monitoring of a 20,000+ GPD Clarifier. A clarifier which got to the point of continuous monitoring becuase we exceeded our permitted copper content by such a ridiculous ammount it's laughable. The fee was literally .28 cents. The continuous monitoring to prove we exceeded our permitted conditions only that one time, on only that one substance, was closer to $150,000. We could sewer caustic, and did drumloads at a time. Our permit conditions dictated the Ph of the sewered water---and like said previously between 6 and 9 there was no problem. A simple shot of HTH or other acid would have turned your caustic drum into legally sewerable saltwater. Dumping 50 gallons of industrial waste byproduct (untreated) down a residential sewer doesn't remotely tirgger the common sense clause of 'somthing I probably shouldn't be doing?' If not, then likely you think the Toxic Avenger is a wonderful movie with seanic tourisim spots like Camden and Newark... You didn't dump 'drain cleaner'---bottom line is you dumped untreated industrial waste down your home sewer. For the effort required to properly treat it being so simple and so little (sorry mods) it strikes my as incredibly stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Let me make this perfectly clear: California is a big PITA to deal with bureaucratically. We had processes where we ran glycol. If the glycol was in solution BELOW 50/50, we could directly sewer the wastes. If the glycol to water concentration was ABOVE 50/50 (like 60 glycol, 40 water) we COULD NOT sewer it, it had to be disposed of in drums as toxic waste. We COULD NOT dilute it to 50/50 and then sewer it. It was illegal. And they fined you. And they DID do checks. Curiously after finding this out, all our glycol systems were administratively corrected after engineering review to allow the usage of 45/55 glycol water mixes. And STUPIDLY enough, we were allowed to dilute the mix in the system (basically pumping in water by calculation) to reach this new leagally sewerable goal. If we removed the mix, to dilute it and then reintroduce it to the system it would have been covered under it's original operating conditions, and would STILL have to be carted off to hazmat because it was originally more than 50/50 concentration. Glycol is water miscible, you can dilute it at any time. We literally had thousands of gallons outflow a day (an hour...) and dropping in 55 gallon drums of glycol straight into our clarifier wouldn't have made a DENT in our allowable permit conditions. No way they could have ever told either. But having some ethical and moral compass when it comes to dropping untreated chemicals in large doses down drains (or even better: storm drains) seems to be the better route and higher ground than cutsey rationalizations or excuses. I have seen people in other states (small towns especially) who have dumped things down the drain, and later in the day or the next day had people knocking on the door with fines. When their little 'deposit' hit the sewerage facility, it set off all sorts of alarms. And then they went to sampling the relatively small sewer system to determine which points the substance was found, and from there, tracked it right back to the originating household. Never dump a gallon of gas down the drain in East Tawas Michigan, "the sewer police" WILL find you! (And that was 1979---imagine technological advances in real time tracking nowadays and what they can do!) Seriously, 5# of HTH and none of this discussion was necessary, and you would have sewered harmless saltwater. You're arguing in defense of what you did that it was the right thing to do? In light of how easy it would have been to simply dope the drum and then sewer it correctly, I don't see it that way. Doubtful the local sewer people would look kindly on it had they known, either! Might check with city of Houston eGubbmint site regarding the people at Pretreatment: "It administers and enforces federal EPA regulations, as well as City of Houston Ordinance, Chapter 47, Article V., (Disposal of Industrial Wastes through City Sewer System)." I'm sure if there was no issue doing it, the guys at Pretreatment will tell you so: 'Go ahead, just dump it, we got enough volume, it won't make a difference!" Could be the case. Doubt if it is, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 You didn't dump 'drain cleaner'---bottom line is you dumped untreated industrial waste down your home sewer. For the effort required to properly treat it being so simple and so little (sorry mods) it strikes my as incredibly stupid. Ok boy genius, answer the following 1. How strong was my soultion? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtburf Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Seriously, 5# of HTH and none of this discussion was necessary, and you would have sewered harmless saltwater. You're arguing in defense of what you did that it was the right thing to do? In light of how easy it would have been to simply dope the drum and then sewer it correctly, I don't see it that way. Doubtful the local sewer people would look kindly on it had they known, either! Might check with city of Houston eGubbmint site regarding the people at Pretreatment: "It administers and enforces federal EPA regulations, as well as City of Houston Ordinance, Chapter 47, Article V., (Disposal of Industrial Wastes through City Sewer System)." I'm sure if there was no issue doing it, the guys at Pretreatment will tell you so: 'Go ahead, just dump it, we got enough volume, it won't make a difference!" Could be the case. Doubt if it is, though. Ok again boy genius, Who said dumped it in "City of Houston" sewer system? I might suggest you get off your high horse, you do not have enough facts, your assuming things were done that were not and seriously you are making yourself look goofy. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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