proxlamus© Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ive been doing research for hours now.. and I'm having a difficult time trying to decide between a Clutch type LSD or a Torsen type LSD... I realize the that the clutch type is a 2 way LSD.. torsen is 1.5 way LSD.. The clutches will wear down over time, the Torsen is fairly maintenance free other then careful use of oil. Subaru used the VLSD, then the CLSD and now Torsen LSD's... makes me wonder why over the years Subaru opted for a Torsen in the newest models.. Some say the Torsen LSD acts as an open differential when a wheel is in the air.. CLSD's do not.. some say CLSD's are great for drifting, Torsens are not.. some say the Torsen pulls you out of a corner like a rocket, CLSD's do not.. I need help deciding.. someone chime in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Here's a very simple guideline: If you're going to be setting the car up loose or if you tend to drive over the curbs at the track, get a CLSD. If the car is not going to slide or bounce around, get a HLSD. If nothing else is available, get a VLSD. BTW steel clutches as used in the older CLSDs don't wear as fast as clutches with friction material on them like are used in most Amercian LSDs, which last 50-60K miles and then need a rebuild. If it does wear, you can shim it back to the correct spec (or whatever spec you want). Torsens don't do anything that would "pull you out of a corner like a rocket" that the CLSDs don't. The reason you come out of a corner harder is because you aren't spinning the inside tire. You won't spin the inside tire with a CLSD either, the difference with either over an open diff is pretty shocking. Edited March 25, 2010 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 That brings up a question.. The Subaru WRX STi.. a rally born street car right?! Im surprised a HLSD (torsen) would be used in a AWD Rally car environment where the wheels are lifted in the air and are on loose surfaces... hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) The only thing I would add, correct me if I'm wrong, is torsen diffs apply the grip more progressively whereas the clutch type is either locking both wheels or open. A great driver (I'm not) might notice and adjust driving habits accordingly. I just like how the torsen type works so seamlessly. For my style of spirited real street driving, and occasional blasts at the drags, I'm totally sold on my OBX. Silent, care free, and the new added traction out of corners was an absolute thrill Edited March 25, 2010 by John Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) The only thing I would add, correct me if I'm wrong, is torsen diffs apply the grip more progressively whereas the clutch type is either locking both wheels or open. A great driver (I'm not) might notice and adjust driving habits accordingly. I just like how the torsen type works so seamlessly.\ OK, you're wrong The Salisbury type CLSDs like the Nissan, KAAZ, Cusco, etc are torque sensitive and use ramps on the crosspins to load the clutch stacks when more power is applied. Other American style LSD's like Eaton, Ford Traction Lok, Dana Trac-loc, and Auburn Gear have springs to load the clutches and they don't sense torque at all. They're similar to a Phantom Grip, but the Phantom Grip just loads the side gear into the case, and the "real" LSDs have actual clutch packs that are just spring loaded but don't respond to torque. Edited March 25, 2010 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the correction, Jon. Phantom grip? Just pulled apart an old Phantom grip R200 that was in the corner. Amazing the amount of carnage to the spider gears and retainer pin. Galling, metal shards embedded in every bearing surface. Nice! I stick with my OBX! Edited March 25, 2010 by John Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Torsen does not pollute the diff oil with bits of clutch material. No contest as far as diff bearings etc life goes really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Torsen does not pollute the diff oil with bits of clutch material. No contest as far as diff bearings etc life goes really. Sorry Richard, but that is BS. The Torsen works by driving the steel gears into the case. The Nissan CLSD works by driving steel clutches against steel clutches. Same thing is going on inside in both cases, metal on metal friction. You might have a case if you were talking about a diff that uses a friction material on the clutches (haven't seen one for a Nissan that does), but even then, wouldn't you rather have friction material like you would find on a clutch disk in the oil than metal? The reason the Phantom Grip mentioned above put shards of metal into the case is because it preloads the gears on the case, and the gears aren't designed for that kind of loading, nor is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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