Oil Pan Gasket

[2eighTZ4me]

Well - I'm surprised that noone chimed in with this little tidbit.

 

If you look at the mating surface of the pan where the bolts go through - 9 times out of 10 (and usually 9 bolts out of 10) you will see where the pan lip is bent upward from the bolts pulling tight. With the pan on a flat surface, and a piece of 2x4 on the backside of the pan lip for creating a flat surface, take the ball end of a ball peen hammer and hammer the middle of the bolt holes on the pan so that they are concave instead of convex. This will allow your gasket to a) seat better with any RTV you may use, and when you torque up the pan, it's going to (eventually) pull back towards its' original shape - hopefully it will be flat(er) than it was with the bolt holes all stretched.

 

If you run your hand across the topside of the pan lip - I bet you'll feel at each bolt hole, there is a "rise" - smack that rise down so that the pan is flat, or better yet, a bit concave, so when you run your hand across the lip of the pan - you'll feel a little "dip" where the bolt holes are. Does this make sense? I can provide a pic later if need be. Works "almost" every time. (I won't say "every" because Tony D might come down on me!)

[Daeron]

Well - I'm surprised that noone chimed in with this little tidbit.

 

Damn, thats a good one!!!

 

OP: Especially if you do what was mentioned above, I like what you said you would do. Good luck!!!!! These things stink when they come back and haunt you, so I hope you get it buttoned up, whatever you do.

[jacob80]

Well - I'm surprised that noone chimed in with this little tidbit.

 

If you look at the mating surface of the pan where the bolts go through - 9 times out of 10 (and usually 9 bolts out of 10) you will see where the pan lip is bent upward from the bolts pulling tight. With the pan on a flat surface, and a piece of 2x4 on the backside of the pan lip for creating a flat surface, take the ball end of a ball peen hammer and hammer the middle of the bolt holes on the pan so that they are concave instead of convex. This will allow your gasket to a) seat better with any RTV you may use, and when you torque up the pan, it's going to (eventually) pull back towards its' original shape - hopefully it will be flat(er) than it was with the bolt holes all stretched.

 

If you run your hand across the topside of the pan lip - I bet you'll feel at each bolt hole, there is a "rise" - smack that rise down so that the pan is flat, or better yet, a bit concave, so when you run your hand across the lip of the pan - you'll feel a little "dip" where the bolt holes are. Does this make sense? I can provide a pic later if need be. Works "almost" every time. (I won't say "every" because Tony D might come down on me!)

 

You know, I actually did pay attention to this but apparently not well enough!

[boardkid280z]

When you say you let the sealant dry for an hour, is that before or after you install the pan?

Like z-ya said, and what I would do and have done, is put sealant on the gasket, both sides, and put an extra dab of sealant anywhere there's a ridge or break in the block surface (like at the front cover). Then install the pan ASAP so the sealant is still wet. Then install all the bolts and snug em. Just enough to compress the sealant and spread it out. If you are waiting an hour and letting the sealant dry before installing the gasket or the pan or snugging down the bolts, the sealant will dry irregularly and you will have passages in the dry sealant for oil to stream out of the pan.

Also, you don't need a whole lot of sealant, just enough to cover the surface - when you snug the bolts down, it will spread out and fill in. Especially because the sealant layer is thin, you need to be quick to snug the bolts down so the sealant is still wet and moldable.

 

After it's snugged down, I would wait 1/2 hour to 1 hour and then tighten, keep going around, they will all probably need several tightening sessions before settling at 7 ft/lbs. Seems like I went around 5-6 times before all mine were tight the last time I did the pan gasket.

Edited April 25, 2010 by boardkid280z

[jacob80]

Well I just got off the phone with Rebello racing and they said they use a Nissan gasket and put it on dry after pounding out the ant hills. I'm actually using a Fel Pro gasket this time around, so hopefully this technique will be successful opposed to my last time around in which I used grey Permatex. When I pull the gasket off the pan, there was no resistance at all, the oil seemed to have blown right through it. I knew I shouldn't have used sealant, grrrr! I'll let you guys know how it comes out.

 

Also, what are you guys torquing your gasket bolts to? I think the OEM spec. is 7 ft. lbs but correct me if I'm wrong here.

[letitsnow]

I used 7-10lbs, but I had to go over them about 5 times to get them all even.

 

Looking in my copy of the how to modify book, they suggest gluing the gasket to the pan, like I mentioned earlier.

[jacob80]

As soon as a start putting on sealants, I start to feel much less confident that it will seal. Don't get me wrong, I want the thing to seal, but I just don't have time to pull it back off a third time as I am trying to work out other things for the Branson Z fest. I agree that gluing the gasket to the pan is a good idea; the surface of the pan is much more inconsistent that the block surface.

 

Specifically, what "glue" have you had success with? (not just weather stripping glue, be specific)

 

Thanks for your help!

[2eighTZ4me]

That's why you take to the pan surface with a ball peen hammer to "make" it more consistent. Not sure about oil pan gaskets (but I would assume the same holds true) - but the factory actually uses a type of weatherstripping adhesive to glue the valve cover gasket on. 3M weatherstripping adhesive is some pretty good stuff. Get the black stuff though - the gorilla snot isn't the best.

[jacob80]

That's why you take to the pan surface with a ball peen hammer to "make" it more consistent. Not sure about oil pan gaskets (but I would assume the same holds true) - but the factory actually uses a type of weatherstripping adhesive to glue the valve cover gasket on. 3M weatherstripping adhesive is some pretty good stuff. Get the black stuff though - the gorilla snot isn't the best.

 

All I'm saying about the surfaces is that I can see why you would only glue on the pan side of the gasket. Yes, I agree that taking a ball peen hammer and hammering down the ant hills is a great idea, which I will be doing.

 

Is the 3M adhesive going to stand up to the heat? What about it's resistance to oil? I'm sure it works wonders when applied to actual weather strip used for sealing water, but is this adhesive appropriate for this application?

[2eighTZ4me]

Well - again, I don't know what Nissan uses "exactly" per-se, but when I pulled an original valve cover - it sure did look like weatherstrip adhesive. I understand your hesitancy to use an unproven adhesive, being that you've done this a number of times and don't want to do it again (can't blame ya there) - so take it with a grain of salt. I'm just advising on what I've seen. I can tell you're extremely gun-shy about doing this (again) - so only you can make the decision. I'll do a little voodoo dance over here to make that sucker seal!!

[jacob80]

Well - again, I don't know what Nissan uses "exactly" per-se, but when I pulled an original valve cover - it sure did look like weatherstrip adhesive. I understand your hesitancy to use an unproven adhesive, being that you've done this a number of times and don't want to do it again (can't blame ya there) - so take it with a grain of salt. I'm just advising on what I've seen. I can tell you're extremely gun-shy about doing this (again) - so only you can make the decision. I'll do a little voodoo dance over here to make that sucker seal!!

 

HA! Yeah, after dropping the pan now twice and installing one on the initial build while out of the car, I think you, too would be gun shy. Its just frustrating because last time, I took someone's advice by using gray Permatex ultra and it just didn't work. Granted I do feel much safer with 3M stuff, but maybe its just me not doing something right. This time, I'll make sure its done right. I'm going to clean the hell out of everything with brake cleaner, hammer down the ant hills, clean again, double check cleanliness (LOL), glue the gasket to the pan, put the pan up, tighten the bolts hand-tight, let it sit overnight, then tighten them 7-10 ft lbs the next day. Hopefully, this will work. What do you think?

[2eighTZ4me]

I think that sounds like a plan. You've tried just about everything else it seems! Not sure if I'd let the glue setup overnight though - I've been under the notion that you just want it to sit long enough so it will skin over and harden slightly, then install the pan and hand tighten. THEN let it sit overnight and torque the next day. Just want to eliminate ANY possibility that there is any chance the glue could harden completely, and then there's a small little pinhole b/t the pan and gasket that didn't seal properly without having any pressure on it to at least squeeze out any air pockets and seal entirely. That'd be my only worry. Got my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for ya man!

[jacob80]

I think that sounds like a plan. You've tried just about everything else it seems! Not sure if I'd let the glue setup overnight though - I've been under the notion that you just want it to sit long enough so it will skin over and harden slightly, then install the pan and hand tighten. THEN let it sit overnight and torque the next day. Just want to eliminate ANY possibility that there is any chance the glue could harden completely, and then there's a small little pinhole b/t the pan and gasket that didn't seal properly without having any pressure on it to at least squeeze out any air pockets and seal entirely. That'd be my only worry. Got my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for ya man!

 

Yeah, you're probably right. I only proposed letting it sit overnight because I don't want all the adhesive mushing out the sides of the gasket since it'll still be gooey. But, like you said, may I'll 1) Apply the adhesive and lay on the gasket. 2) Immediately set the pan on the block, but don't hand tighten. This will let it get positioned. 3) After a half hour, hand tighten the sucker and let it sit overnight. 4) Torque the bolts to 7-10 ft. lbs the next day.

 

One more question: After running the car, should I wait for it to cool completely before retorquing, or retorque while it is still hot?

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!

[2eighTZ4me]

I would run it through several heat cycles. I would NOT retorque if it's not leaking. Leave it alone. You run the risk of squeezing the gasket out if you overtighten - and then you're right back where you started. If you do feel the need to retorque, I would wait until the engine has been through a few heat-ups and cool downs. I would also do the retorque with the engine cold. Hot parts become more malleable and prone to distortion - especially oil pan gaskets (of the cork variety).

[jacob80]

Alright, cool. Maybe I will idle the motor for five to ten minutes then wait for it to cool down and retorque.

[2eighTZ4me]

Soooooo - how's the leaky leak?

[jacob80]

Actually, it turned out well, but there is a very small leak where the old one was but nowhere nearly as bad! I have a feeling its my front cover that is leaking, but hopefully I can seal this up with the Permatex The Right Stuff. Still in testing stages though, but so far so good!!

[2eighTZ4me]

Can't get no better than the Right Stuff - that's the name I was trying to think of!! Great product.

[jacob80]

Oh yeah, I just had a brain fart.

 

I was at Car Quest looking for the 3M stuff as per you suggested when a guy suggested Permatex: The Right Stuff. This guy was swore up and down that this stuff is amazing. He said he guarantees it will work or I could bring it back for full refund. I believe it really did work and my small leak is actually a result of a broken front cover bolt. We'll see what happens with this one, but so far so good!

[2eighTZ4me]

Rock on man!! Best of luck with that broken bolt!