JMortensen Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) I looked a bit at custom dashes and gauge panels, and also roll bar clamps for Autometer gauges. Both were pretty expensive and I think the thing to do is make my own dash panel. If I missed a cheap solution, please let me know. Not looking forward to this project. If not, the tentative plan is to copy a guy I saw on another site where a guy had used U bolts to bolt a flat aluminum sheet to the dash bar, and that seems like a really easy and inexpensive way to go for mounting a plate. First question is how thick should the aluminum be? It will be supporting probably 5 gauges, a couple switches, a push button to start the car and a bias knob for the brakes. It has to be strong enough to use the U bolts without bending for starters. I'm thinking that if it's flimsy I can support to the top with some left over 1/2" aluminum fuel line, just pinch down the ends, drill holes and screw it to the dash holes in the front and the plate for reinforcement. I should have enough for two supports if needed. As far as cutting the holes goes, is there an easy way to do that or am I going to have to fight with a jigsaw and die grinder? I don't have good luck with hole saws on sheet metal, so i'm reluctant to try that method again. Anyone want to share their experiences? Edited April 30, 2010 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Was just turned onto this, looks like a much easier solution: http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=764&action=product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) The HRP deal would be the Easy button. Another thing you might look at is a carbon fiber panel. It only needs to be around 24" - 28" long. I dictated width by fitting the Autometer Tach over the steering column. My roll cage cross bar goes straight across the car just under the door level. So the tach fits between the two. I can snap a photo tomorrow while at the shop if you like. Simple is better. I have seen some dashes get out of control. No need to go across the car, or to be bottom of the windshield. Less is more...... Alan Edited April 30, 2010 by DrSideways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 The HRP deal would be the Easy button. Another thing you might look at is a carbon fiber panel. It only needs to be around 24" - 28" long. I dictated width by fitting the Autometer Tach over the steering column. My roll cage cross bar goes straight across the car just under the door level. So the tach fits between the two. I can snap a photo tomorrow while at the shop if you like. Simple is better. I have seen some dashes get out of control. No need to go across the car, or to be bottom of the windshield. Less is more...... Aluminum seems easier to work with than CF, even if it is heavier. I'd love to see as many pictures as I can before I dive in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyoctopus Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 you could always just use a plastic dash cap with a few brackets to hold it in place. Plastic is pretty light and all you need is a sharp knife to get it around your cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Not worried about aesthetics. Just need a panel to hold the gauges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Looked at the specs on the Genesis part, and then went and measured and that sucker is WAY too big to fit in my car. Bummer. I guess I will be making my own unless someone comes up with a better suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8ZRACER260Z Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Why not trim down the Genesis panel to taking out the bottom row of switches to shorten the height and triming of the thrid guage on the right to narrow the width. I think this would save you from drilling all the holes and make it small enought to fit the Z. A few simple rods to hold it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Why not trim down the Genesis panel to taking out the bottom row of switches to shorten the height and triming of the thrid guage on the right to narrow the width. I think this would save you from drilling all the holes and make it small enought to fit the Z. A few simple rods to hold it in place. Look at my project thread. I have pics of my Al dash. The height from the top of the steering shaft to the typical top of the dash is very small. As soon as I saw that example you linked, I knew it would not work. Honestly, a sheet of aluminum, a metal brake and electric sheet metal shears can get you a decent dash with some careful planning and cardboard manipulation to get your lengths and angles right. Just find some Alcantara or suede, etc. to bond to it or you will blind yourself silly. Make sure you angle the face of the dash towards your head. My dash stops just below the steering shaft. There are decent mounting points (at least on my 280) to fab a few aluminum brackets to mount it up. I have three facets of my dash. The top (which is about where the original dash was, right below the glass) which is sloped a few degrees downward towards me (looks better that perfectly flat), the face for the gauges (angled up towards me perhaps 8~12 degrees) and a 3" wide strip turned under at the bottom of the face. That third facet gives it a ton of strength. For the ends, I left tabs sticking out (about 1" of extra material sticking out) on each facet that I bent over to have a mounting flange for end caps to bolt or rivet on with. This also gives it a lot of strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Roy Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Anything ever happen to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) Not worried about aesthetics. Just need a panel to hold the gauges. I finally got some photos of mine up on my FB page. http://www.facebook.com/?sk=messages&tid=1303216999374#!/photo.php?fbid=1518476613897&set=a.1515300014484.74951.1593979432 It is about as simple as it gets. The tach is the only gauge with wires. The high roll cage cross bar holds the top and two tabs welded onto the steering column holds the bottom. I used some rubber vulcanized mounts with a stud on one side and a threaded hole on the dash side. I used an aluminum panel. If I had to do it again it probably would be a carbon part. Hope this helps, Alan Yes it is for sale. Edited October 16, 2010 by DrSideways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 I saw that through some mutual friends' Facebook pages. I'm sorry to see you selling it Alan, and I hope you still cruise by from time to time to help me extricate my head from my anus when necessary. I was pretty surprised because I'd never seen interior pictures of your car. Our cages are quite similar. I was happily surprised that we had come to the same solutions in a couple of places. Made me feel like I did the right thing. I hate to say it, but yours is just a little better thought out. I am still working on this dash project, just as usual not devoting very much time to it, I did figure out that my dash needs to be about 4" in front of where the dash bar is (one of those things that Alan's cage does better than mine) and so I need some sort of bracketry to move the panel back. I've seen clamp on mounts that just bolt to the dash bar, but I was thinking that I have some 3/4" square tube, so I could just weld a nut in the end of the tube and the weld the tube to the dash bar, and then use a couple simple supports from the top of the plate to the area right under the windshield. I also figured out that by moving the dash back, I have room for the HRP part, so that is back on the table. I bought all of my gauges and switches and I'm talking to someone here about laser cutting an aluminum plate for me which would be very similar to the HRP part. That is sounding pretty promising, but if for some reason it doesn't work out I'll have to still consider whether to cut the holes myself or to spend the money for the HRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Jon, Thanks for the kind comments. I will probably still be around. If it doesn't sell maybe I can find a good street tub to transfer a lot of the parts and systems over to. I probably thought about the cage for the early Z Car since college. (long time ago) When it came down to buying steel I did not have a PC much less a CAD program. I made a 1/16 scale brass model of the floor pans and strut towers. Using 3/16" tubes I made a basic cage you see in the SCCA rule book. Then I soldered in the tubes I knew I wanted like for the front sway bar to ride in and connect to the front of the strut towers. IT grew back from there with the idea of keeping tubes straight and transferring load. Seems to have worked. Have you thought about just going with one of the small all in one boxes? If not for the vintage look of the dial gauges I would have done that. Less weight. The downside in my eyes on that are the electronics. The reason modern cars weigh so damn much are the wires. I wasn't going to get sucked into that. Anyway you could mount a box right on the steering wheel. The gauges will hide small imperfections from your cutting. Take your time and do it early in the day when you are fresh. In house = faster, and cheaper. Then again the box just screws on:) The right thing to do will become apparent as you work along. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 Movement again. I got a dash laser cut by Hybrid Z's own mario_82_ZXT. He saw this thread and was nice enough to approach me with an offer of help. We went back and forth emailing pictures, and finally he sent me a template of what we had come up with. I was able to print out 6 pages, overlap them and tape them together and tape that to a piece of cardboard and go and actually stick it in the car to see if it worked. Very very cool, and it completely eliminated any doubts I had about it not fitting. He even put mounting tabs on it and bent them for me, and put the 3/8" holes in the tabs so that I can just slap some nutserts in there and bolt it up. All I have to do now is weld some brackets to the roll cage, which should be pretty simple. This was SO MUCH BETTER than getting the HRP and trying to cut it up to fit, or trying to cut holes myself with my cheap ass HF drill press. So thanks Mario, and to you other guys who might be doing this, PM him or email at marioDOTmontesATgmailDOTcom. I've been considering what to do for a surface finish. So far I'm thinking crinkle paint would be nice and non-glare. The problem there is that if I do that then I can't stick labels on the dash surface. Alan has suggested that I put tape on the dash where the label will go and then paint, then pull the tape and paint satin black in those areas, then put the labels on. Only problem there is that some of those switch positions don't have a switch assigned yet. I guess I could just leave a little black space above those. Have to consider it a little more. In the meantime, here are some pictures: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks for the shout out Jon It was actually water jet cut, which I think is better (but I'm biased haha) so if any of you guys have any crazy ideas we can cut 6" thick and up to 4'x8' through pretty much anything except diamond and tempered glass (wood, foam, rubber, steel, stainless, aluminum, titanium, inconel, etc). I'm a full time student working at a machine shop programming and operating the water jet so this was mostly done on my own time (aka I'm cheap!). We get material at really good prices and I was lucky we had a scrap of aluminum that fit the dash perfectly. Our shop rate is reasonable so we're really good for those short production runs! If any of you want to bounce ideas of me just shoot me a PM or e-mail me, Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 One thing to think about is an isolation system for the dash. I used the #3049 for mine and some stainless allen head button head screws to attach. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=HARDVIBRATE As for switch placement could you mount it with some duct tape and sit in the car to see what feels good? Sitting on a case of beer would do good:) Keep making progress!! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 3, 2010 Author Share Posted December 3, 2010 (edited) I hadn't considered isolating it from vibration, don't know that my mounting ears are particularly well suited for that since the rubber would be sideways. I had an MSD box mounted that way and it eventually tore up the isolators, although it didn't hurt the MSD. Can't really sit in the car because of the fact that it is on the rotisserie. I could before I built the cage, now to get in would be a little too hairy. That's a lot of weight hanging off the side of the car, and if it did go over it would likely be in the direction I was hanging off. Got a lot of pans in the fire, finishing up tiling a bathroom and working on a 2nd business, but I'm going to try to get out there this weekend. Edited December 3, 2010 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 OK, brackets to mount dash are in. Need to make more brackets to mount gauges to dash, and then I think it's ready for paint. I used angle iron on the left side where the dash was about an inch away from the door bar. This was pretty easy to do. The lower mount on the dash was too close to the door bar to fit a bolt into, so I had the bracket line up inside the dash tab and ran the bolt out towards the door. This worked out pretty well. Bent and ground a piece of angle iron to hit the X door bar and welded that lower one on. On the other side there was almost exactly 3/4" from the tabs on the dash to the center bar, so I took a piece of 3/4" angle and bolted it to the dash and welded it to the bar, then put a diag brace from the angle to the dash bar. I have to admit that due to the proximity of the dash bar and the angle I was at I completely missed my weld up underneath there, and while attempting to fix it the weld turned into a big birdshitty mess under there real fast. Luckily it is in an area where nobody will likely be looking, and I have no concern over the bracket being weak or anything like that. I also got to use a trick that I learned from the Porsche shop I worked at 15 years ago. I crushed some leftover hard fuel line and bent it to make the top supports for the dash. My boss did that on the company racecar way back when. It had super thin and gigantic flares, so he used the fuel line to prevent the flares from buckling at speed. I don't know why, but that cheap racer trick has stuck in my mind and I've just been waiting for an excuse to use it. I just love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 Decided to do the crinkle paint, not sure if I like the results: I prepped it pretty good, cleaned thoroughly then wiped with acetone. I used a heat gun and kept the surface at about 120-140 degrees while it dried (monitored with infrared pyrometer), and I ended up with these spots where it didn't crinkle and it was shiny. The instructions on the paint can say if you don't get good crinkling, paint that section again. Did that. Got more shiny. Then I laid a second coat over the whole thing. Still shiny. I have a feeling when it gets dirty after a while the effect might not be very visible at all, but for right now I'm considering trying to take it off and start over. I did find another paint product that was supposed to be for trunks and floorboards called speckle paint and bought a can to see what it looked like. It has more obvious larger chunks in it. I might give that a shot tomorrow, and if that doesn't work out then strip it all down and start over. The rear of the panel, which I paid less attention when spraying, came out perfect. Figures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 Also figured out the warning light mounts. The stock mounts set the light an inch from the smaller OD on the back of the tach housing. Mine needed 2" offset, so I cut and stretched the mounts. I figured this was preferable to drilling holes in the face of the dash to secure a home made bracket. I also bent up a couple pieces of aluminum so that I can secure the tach as well. Coming together pretty good. If I decide not to screw with the paint and just let it alone I can have the dash and gauges installed tomorrow. Might even do that if I have to repaint it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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