J240ZTurbo Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Will like to run my new braided hoses as a straight cooling system with no heater on my l28et is that a good idea as I know I will never need my heater here in sunny Florida? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S130Z Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 If you decide not to keep the heater, make sure you block off the coolant line that runs from the lower radiator hose(at the engine) to the back of the cylinder head where the heater lines branch off from. If you dont block this off, hot coolent tends to cirulate back to the cylinder head. And seeing how number 5&6 have cooling problems as it is...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J240ZTurbo Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 If you're talking about the hose that runs from the front on the engine and goes under cylinder number six, I don't think blocking that extra cooling line will be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S130Z Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I am talking about that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 ALL engines have a BYPASS coolant circulation route, that CIRCULATES coolant until the thermostat opens. Up until the point of thermostat opening, Circulation is NEEDED, or hot spots may occur, and thermostat opening may be delayed. I believe you can take the heater core out of the circuit, but the coolant route/path must remain for proper cooling system operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) This is what I did: On the inlet I guess it is on the front cover, you have the radiator hose, the hose from the rear of the head, and then I had one more that came up. I think this went to the manifold to heat it or something. Whatever it was, I didn't use it so what I did was crush it with pliers and then weld it, then put caulking or some sort of sealant around that just in case. Its trashy but it works and looks better then a hose folded over and clamped. Oh yah and Jasper is correct. If you block it off, don't run a thermostat. Only reason why I would do that is if I were racing. Don't get beat by your own equipment my dad would always say. In other words, don't have one of those automatic electric fan switches, its a fail point, use a manual switch. Don't use a thermostat, if it fails to open then you're out. Things like that. I will say though. On the Spitfire's, they plug up a water port at the rear of the head. Dad unplugs it and routes a water line to the front for the race cars because the back of the head gets too hot and detonates, exactly our problem. With that in mind, take it as you will. Though, I think we may just be getting confused on what hose S130Z is describing. Lol This is on a Spitfire in the shop, pretty much the same thing, used to resolve hot rear cylinders: Edited July 10, 2010 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J240ZTurbo Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 thats what I expected I mention to S130Z there is no way we can block that section as water will need to keep flowing to cylinder # 6.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) Oh gawd, not this again This has been discussed many times before. I suggest you read this entire thread. If you notice on the last page of the link above JeffP is doing some testing with the coolant line configured just like Josh. It will be interesting to see the results of his testing. There is another thread (search) about merits of Josh's setup. I think the general consensus is that the heater out should not be directed back to the water pump intake. It recirculates hot water, bypassing the radiator. That said, some people run it like that and report that they have no cooling problem. My theory is that the L6 has poor circulation towards the rear of the head and that setup might actually help but it's far from ideal. The best solution is to pull coolant from the head above 5 & 6 and dump it just behind the thermostat. The L6 has an internal bypass and an external factory bypass line from the pump intake to the thermostat housing. Both should be retained otherwise you might dead head the pump during warm up. IMO, running without a thermostat is a bad idea. Besides aiding in warm-up the thermostat also provides a restriction that increases the coolant pressure, raising its boiling point to help prevent nucleic boiling. Edited July 10, 2010 by rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) I see what you're saying and I think what should be noted is I'm not running anything crazy, therefore I may just be lucky that it works for me. Also, I saw on my thermostat housing I have 2 sensors and 1 open plug. 1 sensor is the thermostat, the other one I don't know what it is but I don't use it, and then the open plug I have I rubber hose folded and clamped (can't find a local store with the right thread plugs). You could probably just route it to there since its right below the thermostat. If I'm to be honest though... I'd have to say lets seriously compare the volume of cooled water flowing through the radiator hose into the pump compared to the volume of hot water from the brass pipe (which you could add a heat sink to it and cool it even more if you want to be super badass). I doubt that a little bit of hot water mixed in with a lot of cool water is going to spool anyone's day. Personally, if it spoiled my day, I would use something other then a stock radiator... Don't take my word for it though. I haven't bothered reading through that thread yet so technically I'm just pulling this out of my ass. To answer the thermostat thing: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/93421-permanent-thermostat-removal-good-or-bad/ Use a restrictor and also as I stated, being a race car, of course you will have to take some extra steps before going 100% all out. Most of the guys in the vintage club I'm in have their cars running during the club meeting which lasts like 10 minutes, plus you're sitting on grid for another 5 minutes, plus 1 pace lap. There is enough time to warm up. And once again, if it were me, I'd just run the damn thermostat but I heard that from Dad and he's all "Lets get real, this is serious business!" type dude. Lol... Likelihood of a thermostat not working... I would safely bet you would be fine. Edited July 10, 2010 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) "Besides aiding in warm-up the thermostat also provides a restriction that increases the coolant pressure, raising its boiling point to help prevent nucleic boiling. " The radiator cap determines the system pressure... and boiling point, factored with the specific gravity of the coolant, (water + antifreeze) ...nothing else. The thermostat has a very INDIRECT relation to system pressure , via the system's tempeature/pressure. Simply stated.........the Thermostat "restriction" does not effect, nor increase the coolant system pressure, nor increase it's boiling point. Edited July 11, 2010 by jasper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J240ZTurbo Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 so this is what I finally end up doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyoctopus Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 That is bad. Cap em off. The smartest guys on thus forum say that blocking is far superier for cooling than looping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J240ZTurbo Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 now I am confused??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Simply stated.........the Thermostat "restriction" does not effect, nor increase the coolant system pressure, nor increase it's boiling point. You are wrong. But don't take my word for it, do some research. Again, it has been discussed on HZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) now I am confused??? It looks pretty and I'm sure it will work just fine for you... Personally... It can be a great debate subject however my methodology concludes that if what you have works the way it is, then you don't have a problem even though some may say you do. If you took the time to install a plug rather then what you have now, then I'd say keep it that way and see what happens. Since you took the time to install it the way I have mine, I still say keep it that way and see what happens. We can discuss theories/laws/facts/ideas all day but what matters is what actually works for your application. That kinda makes it open ended because my application isn't jumping off the charts, yours may be, and someone else will have a different setup. Which is why I said if this works for you, then great, if not then plug it up and see if it works well. If not then look into other factors. You don't know until you try, and that fixes this predicament. Worst case scenario, you blow a HG and hopefully you watch your gauges enough to see oil pressure drop or perhaps you smell something funky. If you shut it down then you would be out for the HG, new oil, new filter, and antifreeze for more water. Once again I'll say I haven't read any of those cooling threads but common sense would tell me that IF you had a problem and symptoms showed signs of cooling troubles at the rear, then plug it up. Edited July 11, 2010 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 so this is what I finally end up doing... You have Bypassed the cylinder head with your modification. (OVERHEATING problem to follow) Your coolant flow pulls from the rear of the block,(as consrtucted) NOT from the Top of the cylinder head (thermostat housing). Your circulation path should pull from the BACK of the water pump,feeding from the top of the cylinder head,(thermostat housing). I believe you are WRONG with your routing. I would appreciate confirmation on this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 You are wrong. But don't take my word for it, do some research. Again, it has been discussed on HZ. Do your home work. Total system pressure is goverened by the RADIATOR CAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) You have Bypassed the cylinder head with your modification. (OVERHEATING problem to follow) Your coolant flow pulls from the rear of the block,(as consrtucted) NOT from the Top of the cylinder head (thermostat housing). Your circulation path should pull from the BACK of the water pump,feeding from the top of the cylinder head,(thermostat housing). I believe you are WRONG with your routing. I would appreciate confirmation on this..... Jasper what do you think of what I have because it is the same exact thing and I've had zero overheating problems. I feel like we're spinning our tires on a moot subject. Is my motor not proof of concept? I will draw a picture of how I picture the flow because I get what you're saying however its obviously not causing me any problems and I don't think it will cause him problems. Edited July 11, 2010 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Your coolant path does not flow through the cylinder head, prior to thermostat opening. LOOK AT YOUR COOLANT PATH!!!Front of block to rear of block .Your coolant path does not include the cylinder head. Your thermostat will eventually open with the given configuration, but not before the cylinder head temperature exceeds the block temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) Your coolant path does not flow through the cylinder head, prior to thermostat opening. LOOK AT YOUR COOLANT PATH!!!Front of block to rear of block .Your coolant path does not include the cylinder head. Your thermostat will eventually open with the given configuration, but not before the cylinder head temperature exceeds the block temperature. Like I said we can sit here and chitchat all day but its obviously working for me. One thing that I just thought of as to why it may be working for so long is that I have a metal shim HG. Don't you turbo guys run something else that will blow out? I don't know... I'm going to get my manual now. lol Manual shows a plugged system: However, might I ask what the rear port is for, and the port on the front cover? Is your answer the heater core? Is the backup answer to the inevitable "ok so how does that stop flow?", the heater core valve? So what I'm being told is that when the heater valve is open either for heater use or because people use the core for extra cooling, this consequently causes the cylinder head to overheat? I think not. It appears this is a case of its hooked up wrong but the consequences are not as ludicrous as stated, for my particular motor. Once again it looks like it all hinges on how outstanding the motor is. I don't think I have a particular demand or struggle for extra cooling, therefore there is no problem. For the OP, Juan240z, since you are obviously at the point in your build where you can readily change all this stuff before you fill the system with water, perhaps you plug it off although I personally think you are fine the way it is (I seriously think the consequences are bloated out of proportions). Edited July 11, 2010 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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