Is my oil pump dead?

[Lazeum]

 I'm currently in process on rebuilding my engine since a lube issue damaged it. It was still running but since something was odd, I've decided to take apart the engine and inspect every oil passages to make sure everything will ok after the fix. Cam & retainers were damaged, some metal flakes ended up in the oil.

I've taken apart the oil pump, it does not look so great but I'd like to know thoughts from experts  There are some major scratches on the edge of the inner shaft, rotor is quite rough as well.

 

I'm quite concerned to put it back on the engine, I don't want t have some lube issue in the future (who wants???)

Head/Cam is having the internal oiled cam + spray bar. I expect to enlarge the oil restrictor by 3mm. So I'm thinking a large flow turbo oil pump might be part of my plans for the future...

 

What do you guys think?

Edited October 31, 2010 by Lazeum

[josh817]

Usually the housing itself (in the first picture) you can sand down back to clearance but the rotor and cylinder is all gouged.

 

Oil pumps are cheap, I think its best to just get a new one instead of trying to salvage. Get the turbo pump. I haven't checked but the prices for a regular and then a turbo oil pump should be roughly the same I think...

 

You can always prime the system and check for pressure by getting an extra oil pump spindle/drive, gut the gear off the rides along the crank. Put a drill on the end of it, through the distributor hole and spin it up. Or if you don't want to maim a spindle, get a rod and cut the one end to fit the key in the oil pump, then do the drill thing.

 

It will be messy when you drop the pump to put the proper spindle in, but at least you find out if you have pressure and prime the system.

[Lazeum]

Thanks Josh for your comments.

 

I know oil pump is not so expensive so I might get a new one. Especially since I need to order gaskets also at the same time (front cover is down as well as oil pan currently)

Edited November 1, 2010 by Lazeum

[Tony D]

Competition cars will have issues on turns, where the oil sloshes away from the pickup.

Jeff P did some oil pump testing and found when the oil pump was HOT (as in operating temperature) the clearances changed considerably, so checking them even on a new pump is worthwhile.

 

Follow the recommendations in the How To Modify book on oil flow and smoothing of oil ports. That is one area where 'match porting' will pay in increased flow to the engine.

 

 

To me it looks like F.O. went through the pump, I'd not reuse it when new are still available. I'd put it away for an 'emergency spare' maybe, but not put it back in the engine for competition use.

[cygnusx1]

Change it now.  False economy not to.

[Lazeum]

When you know the price of Weber, custom head and such, I believe it is cheap economy to question the need of a new pump

 

Tony, I haven't seen anything regarding port matching for oil passages. I'll check in the book tonight, thanks for the advice. Since everything is apart now, I guess it would be easy to do (and stupid to do not do). Car btw would most likely be for the street It seems to me a baffled oil pan would be a nice safety part before racing the Z. 

 

 

[Tony D]

Baffled pan and an Accusump.

I have the small accusump in the passenger's floorboard/footwell area on my turbo 73---loose one turbo from oil starvation and you figure out Canton's Price is cheap insurance (cheaper than the baffled oil pan anyway!)

 

in the end, I got a baffled pan as well!

[Lazeum]

I did not know the accusump solution it is good to know but it looks quite complex.

I've just checked baffled pan price... I'm gonna wait! I forgot how much is was!

 

 

I've also spent some time to read "how to modify Nissan OHC engine" with no luck regarding oil path porting. It is in lube section? maybe block preparation???

[josh817]

Unless you're running an oil cooler an accusump shouldn't be too painful. Just have to get the oil lines and fittings. There should be two lines, one going in one going out and maybe a bypass, I can't remember.

 

Oh yah and be sure to use it properly. There have been guys that come into my dads shop to prep their cars for the weekend and we see that they have either set the pressure at like 100PSI so the accusump never accumulates (unless your oil pressure is above 100PSI...), or they leave the valve open all the time so it doesn't ever help with dry starts... the two main ideas I attribute to the accusump...........

Edited November 3, 2010 by josh817

[Tony D]

Yeah, it's pretty straightforward, a line in and out...some guys 't' on a remote filter setup, or use an oil cooler sandwich plate to get full-port dumpage of the oil. When oil pressure drops below what the precharge pressure is set at, the accusump sumps.

 

I use it because I trashed a turbo... But a prelube is another idea it's popular for, especially when you have a high compression engine which really puts a load on the rod bearings at startup till oil pressure builds.

 

There was some portions in the book regarding oil passage blending in the oil pump...taking out the sharp edges, making the ports match. I think it was in the oil pump section actually. Been a while. Basically the same stuff you do on any engine Chevy, Ford, Toyota...it's not rocket science, all standard prepping a blueprinting stuff. The deburring of sharp drilled holes will really help flow into and out of the pump. The real increase comes from an external pickup line -10 in size to the adapter for the pump, plugging the internal galleries, and then feeding by another large AN nose from the pump to the center of the oil filter---removes all the dinky passeges in the block that restrict pickup and feed in the engine.

 

Makes adding that accusump easy, too!

[Lazeum]

 

There was some portions in the book regarding oil passage blending in the oil pump...taking out the sharp edges, making the ports match. I think it was in the oil pump section actually. Been a while. Basically the same stuff you do on any engine Chevy, Ford, Toyota...it's not rocket science, all standard prepping a blueprinting stuff. The deburring of sharp drilled holes will really help flow into and out of the pump. The real increase comes from an external pickup line -10 in size to the adapter for the pump, plugging the internal galleries, and then feeding by another large AN nose from the pump to the center of the oil filter---removes all the dinky passeges in the block that restrict pickup and feed in the engine.

 

Makes adding that accusump easy, too!

 

Indeed!!!   

 

 

I'll check what I can do in the regard. Otherwise, I've seen the part about modifying the oil path but that is for another time. Since I don't have a turbo to trash I can skip this part    (I'm kidding - I've already trashed a Rebello cam because of lube, no need to start again)

Edited November 3, 2010 by Lazeum

[didier]

Hi, Mathieu

looking at your pics, i think your pump is absolutely dead .

If you want one, i'll give you mine, in good shape, i'm in a project of dry sump pump system .

regards

Didier

[Lazeum]

Thanks didier for the proposal!!!   

 

But if I increase oil restrictor size, should I still use a regular oil pump?

Edited November 6, 2010 by Lazeum

[didier]

Thanks didier for the proposal!!!   

 

But if I increase oil restrictor size, should I still use a regular oil pump?

 

there are TWO restrictors holes,one above the chaintensioner location, and one in the midle of the block.

You can drill two 3mm holes, If you get a good stock pump, the flow would be correct, pressure can be modified with shims under the spring

[Lazeum]

Oil restrictor on top of the tensioner is going to be untouched. BAsed on discussion on this board & "How to modify....", it is not required. Since it used only to "spray" some oil on the chain, I guess I'll be ok with only some mod on the restrictor in the middle of the block

 

We should see each other soon, we can discuss further about the pump

Edited November 8, 2010 by Lazeum

[Tony D]

This is correct, the question was posed, and the inquisitive person was directed (by me) to contact Frank Honsoweitz and ask the question directly to "the man who wrote the book"...mainly because if I said the answer, there would be endless discussion and argument 'because it's hear-say and I don't believe it just because you say so' and it would be an open-ended typical internet confusing answer that's really not an answer because of all the arguing and bickering by 'question everything' generation loosers.

 

So Frank himself stated the hole to be enlarged was ONLY the one in the middle of the block NOT THE ONE UP FRONT!

 

And that ain't from me, it ain't hear-say, it's from the man who wrote the book on How to Modify your Datsun L-Engine!

[Lazeum]

If YOU say so

[BRAAP]

....

if I said the answer, there would be endless discussion and argument 'because it's hear-say and I don't believe it just because you say so' and it would be an open-ended typical internet confusing answer that's really not an answer because of all the arguing and bickering by 'question everything' generation loosers.

...

 

:lmao:

 

So Frank himself stated the hole to be enlarged was ONLY the one in the middle of the block NOT THE ONE UP FRONT!

 

And that ain't from me, it ain't hear-say, it's from the man who wrote the book on How to Modify your Datsun L-Engine!

[didier]

OK guys, i think not drilling the upper hole is a "pressure behind the tensionner" question .

 

the problem is closed with the Kameari system

[Tony D]

I refer to it as "Mortensen-proofing" a post.

 

 

Seems I have to do that more and more these days. Or simply keep it to myself. I'm fine with that, I don't need to argue about it.

 

 

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Edited November 9, 2010 by Tony D