subridersix Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) I dragged home an 82 turbo donor car last week. I plan to put the motor and pwr steering in my 76 280. I've got it turning over nicely, compression is fairly even around 145 and I have clean fuel feeding the fuel rail from a temporary tank and my 280 fuel pump. The car reportedly hasn't run for 10 years after some undefined electrical issue parked it. I have no spark. The coil is ok. I have 12v on one side of the transistor on the coil bracket - no indication of a pulse on the yellow lead (I'm using a 12vdc test light). Testing the dizzy - at the harness connector I have 12vdc and Gnd and again no indication of a pulse on the other two leads (1deg and 60 deg i believe). I am unsure that my test light is capable of "seeing" the pulse to begin with and my wiring diagram does not match the wiring at my ECU. The only GB lead I can find on my ECU is not even on the plug indicated by the diagram. I'm using the FSM off carfiche.com. I need to prove wether my problem is lack of a pulse into the ECU or coming out of it. I don't have access to a o-scope, I'm wondering if a home made LED test light would "see" the pulse signal I'm looking for? I'll keep ya'll posted on my progress (I'm assuming there will be progress) as I go. Merry Christmas everyone Edited December 26, 2010 by subridersix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Does anyone know of a way to test the pickup in a 82 dizzy without an o-scope? Would a noid light work for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Remove the distributor, keep it plugged in and powered up, turn very slowly and you'll see the voltage go up to I believe it's 5vdc then drop back down to zero on both signal wires. The rpm signal will jump back and forth quit quickly. The cyl position signal will be a lot slower. You could try to ground and unground the transistor with the coil wire close to ground to see if it produces a spark. Make sure the transistor has a good ground to the chassis as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Remove the distributor, keep it plugged in and powered up, turn very slowly and you'll see the voltage go up to I believe it's 5vdc then drop back down to zero on both signal wires. The rpm signal will jump back and forth quit quickly. The cyl position signal will be a lot slower. You could try to ground and unground the transistor with the coil wire close to ground to see if it produces a spark. Make sure the transistor has a good ground to the chassis as well. Thanks, I'll go try it as soon as I get back home. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Ok, I removed the distributor and manually spun it while still connected via the harness. I used a pin probe and an analog multimeter and tested for signal on the connector at the base of the CAS. I had ground and 12VDC on the black and red wires respectively. Between ground and either pickup wires I had nothing. No pulse, no 5v zip! Just for grins I also plugged in the noid light I rented an guess what ..... no injector pulse; I assume because I have no pulse input to the ECU. Thank you Bernardd for your help, I greatly appreciate it. While I'm twiddling my thumbs getting parts I wonder if it would be possible to "fake" a pulse signal to the ECU and see if I get a pulse signal back out of it to the coil. What do you think would happen if I put a couple d cells in series and applied a 4.5v pulse to the YG lead off the dizzy with the ignition on? The ECU was disconnected and laying in the back went I bought the car so I'm suspicious. Anyone have a known good compatible turbo ECU they want to part with? I really wanted to get this motor running before I swapped it into my 76 but at the moment I'm really tempted to try EDIS and mega squirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 Update: I acquired a second 82 turbo distributor, unfortunately when I tested it using the same procedure as I used before it also has a bad CAS. To further test both sensors I removed the plug from the back or the cas to gain access to the blade terminals themselves (eliminating the plug). Using female blade connectors I grounded the case and supplied 12vdc and ground to the correct terminals and again tested for a dc signal out of the cas - no signal. If anyone knows of any further testing I'd be glad to try it but I believe I do in fact have two bad sensors. I hate to spend the money when I eventually want to go with EDIS but I guess my next step is to buy a new CAS. The best price I've found so far is $172 at Napa. In the meanwhile I've started removing some of the auxiliary components out of the engine compartment to make life easier when It's time to pull the motor. A question for the turbo folks out there. I'd like to run an early intake manifold I have, deleting most of the clutter; The only device I'm considering keeping is the aux air valve for cold starting. The question - Do I need it to start on 20 degree (Texas) mornings and is it used to increase idle speeds when the a/c is running? Here in Texas the turbo is nice but the a/c is essential. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Update: Purchased a new CAS and that solved the ignition issue, I now have spark!! Squirted a little starting fluid in the intake and got a short VAROOM! and ten pounds of crap blew out of the exhaust. Unfortunately I get nothing without the starting fluid so I figure the injectors aren't firing. I crawl under the dash for several hours and everything checks OK. I finally drive 30 miles to town and rent a noid light set only to find that I've been chasing a problem that I don't have. The injectors are getting a pulse. I'm using a boat fuel tank and my NA FI pump connected directly to the fuel rail so I know I have fuel. With the wife's help I was able to keep it running for 30 seconds or so by continuously feeding starting fluid so the timing is probably reasonable..... I'll figure it out eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You seem to be pretty savvy with all of the electrical components! MegaSquirt might be right up your alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 MS has always been part of the plan but I was hoping to do this project in steps.... Donor motor running, swap and wiring, turbo in my 280. Body, interior and paint. THEN MS and performance mods. That being said I am starting to get a little frustrated. This motor runs nicely at idle on starter fluid. Noid lights indicate I have injector pulse. I've now verified fuel supply at 40 psi. AFM, ECU grounds, cylinder and air temps all good by FSM tests. I can't imagine it but I've about decided to pull the injectors; is it possible they are all clogged? I can't do much for the next few days but cogitate. I'll keep those interested posted. I'm hoping somebody can benefit from my fumblings. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(goldfish) Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Possible but unlikely. Maybe try measuring fuel pressure right before the FPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Update: IT RUNS!! I went ahead and cleaned the injectors with B-12 and used a AA battery pack and an old injector plug to open the injector. I may have had 2 plugged injectors I'm really not sure. Put it all back together and and same old - runs on the starter fluid. Slid a screwdriver through the AFM to open the flap a bit and It almost fired. I don't have the aux air valve installed, I've actually been using that 1/2" tube to spray my starting fluid in. I found that with the AFM partially forced open and with that aux air port open it will fire right up. You need spark / fuel / air to run right. I got my spark issue fixed., finally have fuel and now I have an air problem. It's amazing to me that I actually enjoy this stuff. But hey IT RUNS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Dose your car have fuel cut in afm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Also, pop cap on afm and inspect,, rather simple device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks for the suggestion but that wasn't it. I'm just not getting enough air. To prove it I removed the J tube between the turbo and the throttle body, wedged open the AFM flap 1/4" to electrically indicate "running" and even with the AFM out of the intake air stream I had the same result. I'm using a temp fuel system so the fuel relay isn't being used (no fuel cutout). I need to let in a lot of extra air either through the aux air port being open or significantly more throttle to keep to motor running. Perhaps the idle air passages in the throttle body are plugged. The other possibility that occurs to me is that the turbo isn't spinning. I don't know what kind of air I ought to be getting out of the turbo at roughly 1500 rpm and no load but with the J pipe removed I put my hand down near the turbo outlet and didn't feel much air flow. I know this much; it's 34 outside, the sun is setting and I've had enough for one day. Thanks for the help. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wish it was 34 degrees, I'm buried in 3ft of snow! It seems like the afm to me, I did the same thing not long ago, had the same problem of not staying running, and same solution of holding the flapper open partially. The tolerances in the afm were off enough so it was junk, so I bought another from the classifieds for 30 bucks and bam, car ran great. Just my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 You've done great. I've got a nasty feeling your over thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 You Know I think both of you are right. The AFM is definitely the most likely culprit. I have removed the aux air valve which is suppose to provide additional air in past the TB for cold starts so....I need to lighten the AFM spring tension a bit to compensate?. I'm having trouble figuring out how to adjust the AFM when I can't drive the car or put any load on the motor. It maybe time to quit screwing around and swap the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subridersix Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ok, I took the cover off the AFM and found that that the wire clip that holds the gear in position was loose and the gear had loosened 5 teeth. Since that is what I had planned to do anyway I just tightened it back up where I found it. I then installed the Aux Air Valve off my 76 NA motor and plumbed it in. I crossed my fingers, turned the ignition and it started right up! Man I am so stoked, the motor sounds good and idles smoothly at about 800 rpm. I want to thank everyone who offered help and advice. Bob Oh ...anyone got a good turbo AFM cover? Mine didn't survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Since you are upgrading anyhow, ive left mine off for 1.5 years. Clean contacts once in a while. Mine is na, mount is vertical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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