tyler031734 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I've been looking at options to reverse cool my L6 ever since reading about its benefits in Gm engines. External pumps are spendy and cluttered looking to me. But! why couldn't I reverse the direction of the blades on my current pump? Ive got the welder I would have to relocate my Tstat, But I already have quick ideas for that. If it doesn't over heat I guess it would be pumping enough water right? haha. yet another reason to buy one of them late thermometers. Edited February 2, 2011 by tyler031734 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 So you want to turn the pressure side of the pump into the suction side? Not a good idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That's not how it works. Read the 'head cooling on #5' sticky. Reverse Flow cooling is doable, but you don't turn the whole block into a 'suction side' as the flow dynamics of suction / vacuum systems are totally different than pressure-fed systems. You want to pressure feed the engine, and keep the COOL side feeding the pump. If there was one single word to explain why it would be 'CAVITATION'---you never want to feed your hottest fluid into a potential vacuum or low-pressure area. The flash-bubble and cavitation (steam pocket) formation at the pump inlet would stop it pumping before operating pressure was reached even at 24psi static! If you look at the Early GM Experiments in Reverse-Flow Cooling done after the SBC was in production (this is in the 50's) they modified the pump (which is easy on a chevy) to feed into the heads instead at the front of the block, then manifolded the two former 'water inlets' to a common header with the thermostat housing as a new 'water outlet'. Having met one of the engineers who participated in this study it was interesting to note that GM knew the advantages of it almost immediately after production started...but it took almost 50 years for them to implement the tooling and casting changes during a significant redesign of their block! Talk about institutional inertia! I digress.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Having met one of the engineers who participated in this study it was interesting to note that GM knew the advantages of it almost immediately after production started...but it took almost 50 years for them to implement the tooling and casting changes during a significant redesign of their block! Talk about institutional inertia! I've spoken to someone who used to work at GM for quite some time. He said something of the sort: "We found out for one engine series that every 15th block or so came out of the cast wrong, instead of fixing the cast, we just threw back the bad blocks." Too bad they didn't go completely bankrupt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Don't get me started on scrap/rework policies... There is some logic behind some of the decisions... but fundamental structural process changes never have been an urgent matter. Poor long-term focus, much too much bias toward the 90 day cycles for bonus payouts... I would tend to agree, bankruptcy would have forced some changes. GM has an exceedingly good engineering department, but the institutional inertia there stifles their ideas and progress. What they DO get out is remarkable given the structure which contains/constrains them! It really is what I would call tragic, the brilliant ideas/concepts they have come up with, but how the institution kills them, almost systematically. "We digress..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler031734 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 I love getting answers from knowledgeable people along with a few scientific facts to back them up. I must admit there where a few things I should have thought about like pressure loss caused by suction through the block. However I did not know about the differences in flow whether being pushed or pulled through. I dont remember your awesome terminology... Thanks for that little seed of knowledge. Now this gets me thinking of taking my spare timing cover and water pump and finding a way to mount them PS pump style. Via a dead alternator casing and some aluminum welding... sounds crazy right now but ill break out the tape measure in the morning and see how crazy... I've seen aftermarket pumps but there BIG $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Why are you mounting it where the alternator is? It will end up going in the 'out' of the thermostat, and come out the center of the old water pump opening. A simple plate where the old water pump was, along with the thermostat housing and thermostat is what will be there... Going "in" will be on the A/C pump side of the block, and radiator would most easily be a crossflow or downflow with inlet and outlet ends reversed. A high point burp tank like from a roadster would help to bleed the system. And again, for best distribution, reading the No5 Cooling thread for the manifolded distribution of water to the head instead of from the head may be advisable. Trust me, you're not the first one to think along these lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler031734 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Not where the alt is but mounted to a alt case for mounting proposes. I've read that once upon a time but was merely absorbing. ill re read it again. first thoughts say mount it where the PS pump would go and work the hoses around my inter cooler piping. came across the same though of how to mount the thermostat witch thankfully wouldn't be to hard. if this ended up happening. I know I can't be the first to think of it, so I hope to learn some from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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