redzedsled Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Just thought I would throw some dicussion on where to find stainless mandrel bends for a 240Z exhaust. I just received a 2-1/4" Builders Kit from Mandrel Bending Solutions located in Pasadena, Maryland. Their website is http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com. You can also purchase their products on EBay as well http://stores.ebay.com/Mandrel-Bending-Solutions. They do not gouge folks on shipping either, very fair company that way. The builders kit was only $159.00 US and they delivered by way of USPS in two separate boxes for $62. Arrived to my door with no duties or unwanted UPS brokerage fees. It turns out that this stainless steel is fabricated in Canada by Fischer Canada Stainless Steel Tubing Inc. It is a 409 Stainless and is available as expanded or non-expanded ends. Since it is getting closer to spring, I will post my exhaust building results here in this posting. I thought that there is still enough early Z fans out there who would appreciate some info with respect to building the ideal exhaust system for a 240Z. I will re running a Motorsport header with a flexible 2-1/2" to 2-1/4" transition fitting by Pacesetter, part number 82-4114. It will then carry on until it reaches a Vibrant Performance Stainless Steel Resonator Part No. 1140 http://www.vibrantperformance.com. Because the resonator is 300 series stainless steel and the fact that the resonator is sacrificial, I have decided to have this piece slip fit into eventually what will be an expanded end on the exhaust that connects to it. I will then use an old style muffler clamp which has been re-plated yellow zinc to give it the retro look I am after. The mandrel bends will make up the rest of the exhaust and finishing off with a Magnaflow Performance Muffler Part No. 12635 Offset/Offset 2-1/4 409 stainless muffler. The goal of this exhaust system is to have a fairly stock looking system that performs well. Stock exhaust is usually 1-5/8 O.D., so moving to a full flow 2-1/4 should be the ticket. I have chosen 409 stainless steel for several reasons, cost, weldability effected my decision. Because I do not want a polished stainless system, 409 is more cost-effective, and is considered a better choice for exhaust because of its ferritic content. Ferritics are best suited for high temperature applications that require corrosion resistance and high strength. Because 400 series stainless exhaust tends to brown out when it oxidizes, it is considered a non-polishable steel. You can give it a brushed look with a scuff pad, but I have opted for a flat black VHT Brand header paint to cover up the scars created when put through the bending process. This will also make the whole system look more discrete once mounted. I am sure the wife won't mind me oven baking my exhaust componenets. Because my car is basically stock with some Nissan perfomance add-ons such as non-emissions balance tube and air cleaner, Euro distributor and harmonic balancer, and without the air pump, etc, I have decided to use all stock hardware components in the exhaust wherever possible. I have begun by tracking down had-to-find exhaust brackets and hangers from E-Bay. Remember the goal is to appear stock but with the emphasis on performance. It seems a shame to paint what is a polished finish on the resonator, but I really want to "downplay" the exhaust look, even though very few actually see it. The mid exhaust hanger will be fabricated in the shop, and I have included the drawing below. I have chosen a generic tip that I will modify substantially to appear as if it were the stock tip, which is no longer available from Nissan. Even though the tip was originally chromed, I have opted for polishable stainless so I can buff out my adjustments. The first thing I did was to grind down the angle to 25° on the slash cut according to the plan. MATERIALS LIST It all starts with a plan... Motorsport 6-1 Header... Nissan hardware where possible.. Mandrel 409 Stainless Builders Kit Mr. G Brand Copper Crush Gasket Pacesetter flex fitting... Magnaflow Muffler, after painting... Vibrant Performance Resonator ... A generic 300 series stainless exhaust tip.. Draft of mid hanger bracket (item C on plan)... Edited February 6, 2011 by redzedsled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks for the link! That's a great deal, and I definitely know where I'll be getting the materials for my exhaust this summer. Be sure to take a lot of pics along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ls240sx Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 good find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I thouoght 321 Stainless was the 'preferred' exhaust material---but that may have been in reference to headers and not the entire exhaust. Going to something cheaper may be prudent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/ Is also a great place to get weld-els, collectors, aluminium pipe and silicone and t-clamps. Sign up for their B-stock list! I can get weld-els locally much cheaper, but most of that other stuff I can't find cheap locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernS30 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have known about MBS for a while. I purchased a 3" builders kit from them for my car off of their Ebay store. Fast shipping, good product, also got 2 free rolls of brick colored wrapping paper with my order... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Wow that builders kit looks like you could almost do 2 cars with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzzzz Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The aluminized steel is about $50.00 less than the 409. This will most likely last the life of your car. It most likely weighs less depending on gauge. It is a good product. Just another option for one to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I thouoght 321 Stainless was the 'preferred' exhaust material---but that may have been in reference to headers and not the entire exhaust. Going to something cheaper may be prudent. Yeah, 321 is much better for very high temps (resistant to carbide precipitation compared to lower alloys). Generally pre-turbo exhaust plumbing is where it's used and also headers like you said. 304 is great for an exhaust system and I have used it for turbo manifolds plenty of times with fine results. I would say that 304 is the generally preffered SS alloy for car exhausts. It looks nice (for a long time), welds nice, and has good insulating properties for a reasonable cost. I won't use 409. I build exhausts for other people and there is just no way I can justify an expensive exhaust that rusts. I think coating it is a good idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yeah, 321 is much better for very high temps (resistant to carbide precipitation compared to lower alloys). Generally pre-turbo exhaust plumbing is where it's used and also headers like you said. 304 is great for an exhaust system and I have used it for turbo manifolds plenty of times with fine results. I would say that 304 is the generally preffered SS alloy for car exhausts. It looks nice (for a long time), welds nice, and has good insulating properties for a reasonable cost. I won't use 409. I build exhausts for other people and there is just no way I can justify an expensive exhaust that rusts. I think coating it is a good idea... All valid opinions, I appreciate your input. 304 Series Builders Kits were about twice the price at MBS, and they never offered the preferred 321. I made the decision based on a budget and I couldn't justify aluminized steel. The rear muffler I purchased was made of 409 so I thought I would follow suit with the same 409 in the builders kit. Looking forward to reading more posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 www.verociousmotorsports.com has 304 material. It's where I purchase my S/S for exhaust systems. I usually get Magnaflow resonators and mufflers from a local shop for very good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 www.verociousmotorsports.com has 304 material. It's where I purchase my S/S for exhaust systems. I usually get Magnaflow resonators and mufflers from a local shop for very good prices. It's a small world, Verocious is where I purchased the 304 resonator for this project. This resonator is very close to the original dimensions of the stock resonator on the 240Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snailed Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It's a small world, Verocious is where I purchased the 304 resonator for this project. This resonator is very close to the original dimensions of the stock resonator on the 240Z. That's a good company to deal with. I make pretty big orders with them...some things you can find cheaper elsewhere but it's not worth the time for me to shop each little part to save $10. redzedsled, I think I would consider 409 for a personal project if I was going to coat it anyway. Are the bends nice on yours? The 304 bends Verocious sells are pretty nice dimensionally and with few tool marks. I have got some from other distributors that were nearly square in cross section (worn out inner mandrel?) and covered in marks from the bender. I think those were from Gibson. My favorite are from Burns Stainless but the pricing and quality is well above what my customers want/need. I need some F1 cars in here hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah. Burns has nice stuff but the cost factor is not justifiable in the majority of instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yeah, I'm close to Burns, so when I go to Porterfield, I stop by Burns and pick up the stuff I need. I'm with the guy above in the regard of 'stainles steel that rusts'---I had a set of 400-Series headers, and damned if they didn't rust. If I'm going to make it stainless then I'll buck up the $$$ for the 304 after the turbo or header. You CAN polish series stainless and it will look great. I just don't know what you can do to keep it from getting the specks of rust all over it. You can polish it again and they go away. But how often do you want to polish your exhaust? I did my headers once. Once. Aluminized and coated would be a liftime exhaust. Frankly the JDM Trust system I got from the late 70s is still going strong with just some high temp paint on it. If it was coated, I guess it would still look like new except where I curbed it a few times! All a matter of personal preference I guess. To use 400 Series to say you have 'stainless exhaust' is one way to look at it, but most guys who want stainless don't want the rust. If you aren't running it enough to get the rust, probably making a straight mild steel exhaust (not even aluminized) and having it total coated would likely give the same results...without the damned rust. Did I mention I hate rust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Just thought I would throw some dicussion on where to find stainless mandrel bends for a 240Z exhaust. I just received a 2-1/4" Builders Kit from Mandrel Bending Solutions located in Pasadena, Maryland. Their website is http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com. You can also purchase their products on EBay as well http://stores.ebay.com/Mandrel-Bending-Solutions. They do not gouge folks on shipping either, very fair company that way. The builders kit was only $159.00 US and they delivered by way of USPS in two separate boxes for $62. Arrived to my door with no duties or unwanted UPS brokerage fees. It turns out that this stainless steel is fabricated in Canada by Fischer Canada Stainless Steel Tubing Inc. It is a 409 Stainless and is available as expanded or non-expanded ends. Since it is getting closer to spring, I will post my exhaust building results here in this posting. I thought that there is still enough early Z fans out there who would appreciate some info with respect to building the ideal exhaust system for a 240Z. I will re running a Motorsport header with a flexible 2-1/2" to 2-1/4" transition fitting by Pacesetter, part number 82-4114. It will then carry on until it reaches a Vibrant Performance Stainless Steel Resonator Part No. 1140 http://www.vibrantperformance.com. Because the resonator is 300 series stainless steel and the fact that the resonator is sacrificial, I have decided to have this piece slip fit into eventually what will be an expanded end on the exhaust that connects to it. I will then use an old style muffler clamp which has been re-plated yellow zinc to give it the retro look I am after. The mandrel bends will make up the rest of the exhaust and finishing off with a Magnaflow Performance Muffler Part No. 12635 Offset/Offset 2-1/4 409 stainless muffler. The goal of this exhaust system is to have a fairly stock looking system that performs well. Stock exhaust is usually 1-5/8 O.D., so moving to a full flow 2-1/4 should be the ticket. I have chosen 409 stainless steel for several reasons, cost, weldability effected my decision. Because I do not want a polished stainless system, 409 is more cost-effective, and is considered a better choice for exhaust because of its ferritic content. Ferritics are best suited for high temperature applications that require corrosion resistance and high strength. Because 400 series stainless exhaust tends to brown out when it oxidizes, it is considered a non-polishable steel. You can give it a brushed look with a scuff pad, but I have opted for a flat black VHT Brand header paint to cover up the scars created when put through the bending process. This will also make the whole system look more discrete once mounted. I am sure the wife won't mind me oven baking my exhaust componenets. Because my car is basically stock with some Nissan perfomance add-ons such as non-emissions balance tube and air cleaner, Euro distributor and harmonic balancer, and without the air pump, etc, I have decided to use all stock hardware components in the exhaust wherever possible. I have begun by tracking down had-to-find exhaust brackets and hangers from E-Bay. Remember the goal is to appear stock but with the emphasis on performance. It seems a shame to paint what is a polished finish on the resonator, but I really want to "downplay" the exhaust look, even though very few actually see it. The mid exhaust hanger will be fabricated in the shop, and I have included the drawing below. I have chosen a generic tip that I will modify substantially to appear as if it were the stock tip, which is no longer available from Nissan. Even though the tip was originally chromed, I have opted for polishable stainless so I can buff out my adjustments. The first thing I did was to grind down the angle to 25° on the slash cut according to the plan. MATERIALS LIST It all starts with a plan... Motorsport 6-1 Header... Nissan hardware where possible.. Mandrel 409 Stainless Builders Kit Mr. G Brand Copper Crush Gasket Pacesetter flex fitting... Magnaflow Muffler, after painting... Vibrant Performance Resonator ... A generic 300 series stainless exhaust tip.. Draft of mid hanger bracket (item C on plan)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Just thought I would throw some dicussion on where to find stainless mandrel bends for a 240Z exhaust. I just received a 2-1/4" Builders Kit from Mandrel Bending Solutions located in Pasadena, Maryland. Their website is http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com. You can also purchase their products on EBay as well http://stores.ebay.com/Mandrel-Bending-Solutions. They do not gouge folks on shipping either, very fair company that way. The builders kit was only $159.00 US and they delivered by way of USPS in two separate boxes for $62. Arrived to my door with no duties or unwanted UPS brokerage fees. It turns out that this stainless steel is fabricated in Canada by Fischer Canada Stainless Steel Tubing Inc. It is a 409 Stainless and is available as expanded or non-expanded ends. Since it is getting closer to spring, I will post my exhaust building results here in this posting. I thought that there is still enough early Z fans out there who would appreciate some info with respect to building the ideal exhaust system for a 240Z. I will re running a Motorsport header with a hand-built transition from the 2-1/2" collector to the 2-1/4" pipe. It will then carry on until it reaches a Vibrant Performance Stainless Steel Resonator Part No. 1140 http://www.vibrantperformance.com. Because the resonator is 300 series stainless steel and the fact that the resonator is sacrificial, I have decided to have this piece slip fit. I will then use an old style muffler clamp which has been re-plated yellow zinc to give it the retro look I am after. The mandrel bends will make up the rest of the exhaust and finishing off with a Magnaflow Performance Muffler Part No. 12635 Offset/Offset 2-1/4 409 stainless muffler. The goal of this exhaust system is to have a fairly stock looking system that performs well. Stock exhaust is usually 1-5/8 O.D., so moving to a full flow 2-1/4 should be the ticket. I have chosen 409 stainless steel for several reasons, cost, weldability effected my decision. Because I do not want a polished stainless system, 409 is more cost-effective, and is considered an economical choice for exhaust because of its ferritic content. Ferritics are best suited for high temperature applications that require corrosion resistance and high strength. Because 400 series stainless exhaust tends to brown out when it oxidizes, it is considered a non-polishable steel. You can give it a brushed look with a scuff pad, but I have opted for a flat black VHT Brand header paint to cover up the scars created when put through the bending process. This will also make the whole system look more discrete once mounted. I am sure the wife won't mind me oven baking my exhaust componenets. Because my car is basically stock with some Nissan perfomance add-ons such as non-emissions balance tube and air cleaner, Euro distributor and harmonic balancer, and without the air pump, etc, I have decided to use all stock hardware components in the exhaust wherever possible. I have begun by tracking down had-to-find exhaust brackets and hangers from E-Bay. Remember the goal is to appear stock but with the emphasis on performance. It seems a shame to paint what is a polished finish on the resonator, but I really want to "downplay" the exhaust look, even though very few actually see it. The mid exhaust hanger will be fabricated in the shop, and I have included the drawing below. I have chosen a generic tip that I will modify substantially to appear as if it were the stock tip, which is no longer available from Nissan. Even though the tip was originally chromed, I have opted for polishable stainless so I can buff out my adjustments. The first thing I did was to grind down the angle to 25° on the slash cut according to the plan. MATERIALS LIST It all starts with a plan... Motorsport 6-1 Header... Nissan hardware where possible.. Mandrel 409 Stainless Builders Kit Mr. G Brand Copper Crush Gasket Pacesetter flex fitting... Magnaflow Muffler, after painting... Vibrant Performance Resonator ... A generic 300 series stainless exhaust tip.. Draft of mid hanger bracket (item C on plan)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirdBlastoise Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 looks great, how does it sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 looks great, how does it sound? I can't tell you just yet, as it is being readied for paint. I wanted to mock-up the exhast before paint went down. I must tell you though that I probably would have preferred to use a 300 series stainless in hindsight. The 409 stainless was easy to weld, but I could not find suitable wire for my MIG welder, so I opted for a 308 wire. The 409 was only available in huge sized rolls and stainless wire aint cheap ($45 for 2 lb roll of 308). The 308 wire (.023 DIA) is compatible with mild steels and 409 stainless steels. I made sure I left the fillet of the weld intact for strength. If I began with 300 series stainless in the first place, then I would have used 308 filler weld that would match the parent metal. In the end, I could not be happier with the look of the exhaust. It looks quietly understated painted Black, yet I know it should perform and sound great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I REALLY like your pre-muffler. It is a MUCH better mounting arrangement than MSA uses in their current kits. I have the same header, and HATED the 'new routing' they used. Your thoughts on the premuffler positioning run alongside what I was thinking would have to be my only option for modification and getting that damnably loud singe-can configuration MSA sells back to where it is on everything else I used from them (with the addition of that 18 to 36" glasspack up front under the tranny!) With a staggered dual-tip exhaust it would look very 432 OEM like (save for it being a single pipe front to back!) Nice looking job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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