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[240zphilly]

I recently received a speeding ticket for allegedly going 107mph in a 70mph zone. On the ticket the Citing Officer did not indicate how he measured my speed (radar/lidar/pace). I happen to know that I was not traveling at 107 mph at the time he pulled onto the interstate and lit me up. I'm curious if he has to prove how fast I was going and what legal standing does he have after omitting this information?

[JSM]

I think it boils down to your word against his, however, I've never seen the judge favor a defendent. Police are trained to estimate speed without radar and from my understanding are fairly good at it.

 

What I do in FL is go to court. Try and find the officer on the court date and ask if he would mind if you asked the judge to Withhold ajudication. I've yet to experience any that said no.

 

In FL this gets the points off your liscense. You still pay the fine and court costs, but no points which helps your insurance.

 

Be prepared for anything from the judge though. He may order you to go to driver improvement school or some class. Dress nice and be polite.

 

The advantage of going to court is he may not show. In FL the ticket is thrown out and your free and clear.

 

It is incredibly entertaining to watch others as well. You will hear and see some amazing things.

 

For one reason or another I seem to get a ticket every 2-3 years.

Edited March 4, 2011 by JSM

[240zphilly]

That's a good option and if it comes to that I may try it. I'm hoping someone can provide a link to the procedures for filling out a ticket and if he is required to provide that information.

[subbiee]

i would fight it he has to prove that u were going that speed i would think. he can just be like i think he was going that fast.. i would try and fight it. you never know it might get thrown out because he messed up on his paperwork.

[josh817]

Indeed he has to prove it somehow but he can just as well say he "forgot" to mark it.

 

I once got pulled over for going the speed limit (40mph) through a 90º turn that had the yellow caution advised speed 25mph. I was on edge about my speed that day because just the week before I got a speeding ticket! The officer asked "what was that all about" and I responded "I don't understand what you mean officer?". He said "you were going way too fast through that turn." I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said "my speedometer said I was doing 40mph but its 35 years old so you're radar may have shown something faster. What did you clock me at?" He never answered and asked for my paperwork. He wound up giving me a "warning" although here in Texas a technical warning is receiving a sheet of paper that says be good whereas what I got was a verbal warning AKA he didn't have anything on me except maybe reckless driving or something if he felt like it.

 

The previous ticket I mentioned I thought I could get out of it for the same reason you have. He made an error on the car model and my plate number. If I were to take it to court the judge would most likely acknowledge the error but not let me free for trying to be a pinhead. Unfortunately a lot of municipal court judges know the officers and exert a certain trust into them compared to you, the joe shmo, who just shows up. The judge is therefore bias... Court then turns out to be guilty until proven innocent rather than innocent until proven guilty.

 

I'm not a very fond of the municipal courts at ALL. The system is not there to protect you, it's there to milk you for all you're worth. Although there may be an error in the paperwork, which technically in my case would deem the wrong vehicle of speeding, they still give the officer the benefit of the doubt and the city your lovely $250. Granted I'd be a weasel if I tried getting out of that because I knew I was speeding and the judge isn't dumb enough to fall for that. My point is that in legal sense, if the documentation is wrong then it's wrong and shouldn't allow for fixing errors, especially right there in court. If that were the case the ticket could be edited to whatever the officer felt like in order to support his case against you.

 

Do realise though that the judge is a city employee as well as the officer and the citation is issued to you by the city. You're wading against the current and you need strong support to prove an illegitimate ticket especially in your case. If the city you received a ticket in is particularly noteworthy of their ticket revenues, you will find that the court is stubborn. This happens a lot in high crime cities where the city wants the money, and the court wants to ensure criminals don't offend again. One of my legal battles is here in Arlington and a huge portion of their revenue are class c misdemeanor citations, they aren't the easiest to work with.

 

I personally don't see going to court working out too well for you. Though, I am curious if the judge would make the officer prove how he recorded your speed. In a court that's being run properly, you are innocent until proven guilty and really there is no way for him to prove how he got your speed unless the equipment has some sort of logging feature that he can look back and go "see 107 right there". Or like previously stated, the judge just takes his word for it which I find highly unfortunate.

 

That is my own very bias opinion though...

Edited March 6, 2011 by josh817

[Tony D]

" In a court that's being run properly, you are innocent until proven guilty and really there is no way for him to prove how he got your speed unless the equipment has some sort of logging feature that he can look back and go "see 107 right there". "

 

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

"I pursued the vehicle and paced him for a distance of XXX and determined his speed to be XXXX"

 

That's it, they're professionals, and their testimony is taken as such. Unless you have a good solid reason ("Sir, you testified you heard me shift, how many times? '2' Two times, so you reckon I left the intersection in 2nd gear, or first? 'I wouldn't think 2nd, your first shift was very short, and your muffler very loud' Then I would have been in thrid gear, is that a reasonable assumption? 'yes it is' Then sir, would you tell my what my possible speed would have been in third gear at redline according to the owner's manual of the vehicle? Isn't it 35mph, and as you recall I stated when you asked me at the start of the stop if I knew how fast I was going and I said 35mph? At that time I opined that you stopped me for a loud muffler, and that I would take that ticket, but if you wrote me for some BS speeding ticket that I would see you in court? (Judge harunmphs) Shall I ask that my personal voice recorder be admitted to evidence to compare with your note source, because my notes state something different from your notes..."

 

They now arrest you for recording traffic stops apparently...

 

I love it though how the parsing of the ticket goes 'I know I wasn't going 107' which leaves the impliation that you weren't going 70. If this is out by Irwin, and you got tagged by CHP you were well in excess of 85 and you might do well to consider everybody in the court knows that as well...

[josh817]

That's it, they're professionals, and their testimony is taken as such. Unless you have a good solid reason ("Sir, you testified you heard me shift, how many times? '2' Two times, so you reckon I left the intersection in 2nd gear, or first? 'I wouldn't think 2nd, your first shift was very short, and your muffler very loud' Then I would have been in thrid gear, is that a reasonable assumption? 'yes it is' Then sir, would you tell my what my possible speed would have been in third gear at redline according to the owner's manual of the vehicle? Isn't it 35mph, and as you recall I stated when you asked me at the start of the stop if I knew how fast I was going and I said 35mph?

I did something like that when a soccer mom called the police on me for going too fast in a school zone... Our highschool was split right down the center by a small road with the parkinglot on one side and the school on the other. I would obviously know better not to speed plus the fact that there is a cross walk every 75 feet means I can't pickup that much speed anyway. She rolled her window down and shouted at me angrily. I didn't hear what she said so I shouted back "what?!". She told me I was going too fast so I asked her if she had a radar/laser gun to record my speed. She looked at me funny and was like NO. So we continued on our way and I saw her write some stuff down and get on the phone. When I was stopped a mile down the road I told the police officer that she wasn't too happy about the noise level/look of the car which almost deems it speed demon worthy. He just told me to take it easy and I went on my way. Honestly, with a T5 tranny and a 4.11 rear end @ 3000-3500 RPM.... it's not that fast. 205 70 tire with 14" wheels leaves a 25" diameter with 3.35 1st gear ratio and a 4.11 rear end. At 3500RPM that should be 18mph. I believe the same incident I wrote about in the last post, going through the turn quickly, was also due to the fact that it's loud and the body style is kind of suggestive. I can see how someone would be easily persuaded that you/your intentions are to speed.

 

And also to anyone else reading my previous post I just want to make it clear that even if you feel wrongly accused there is no need to be a **** to the officer. The officer and the judge deserve respect and like Tony said, their professional opinion isn't completely moot. My beef is with the credit that some seasoned judges give to officers, since they sometimes know each other well which therefore renders you useless. You could be a very smart person however when you're just Joe Shmo compared to Officer Leeroy's professional opinion, you're intelligence means nothing and the Officer's intelligence means everything. I hate the system for my own personal reasons but for you, it should just be a warning that you need to bring some strong points to court other than "he never marked how he recorded my speed".

 

Honestly nothing against you but I have a hunch you were speeding but maybe not by that much. In that case I wouldn't bother going to court because the severity of the speed won't matter and you will still get the boot and pay the court fees. Keep in mind when I say the severity of the speed shouldn't matter, I mean that as in you already received a citation for speeding so you won't see anything more like "reckless driving" unless otherwise noted on your ticket. I think here in Texas it's 25MPH over the limit and they are allowed to do that however being polite and respectful will save you unless they are having a bad day or something. Big Phil set an example of what I'm talking about:

 

I remember the only other ticket I had was when I was hauling ass through the big sweeping left turn when Davis merges with 820, here in North Texas by North East Mall. The officer was like "cool, nice car, does it run well?" I just looked at him with my poker face... "yes... it was running too well for my own good as you just noticed". He just laughed. lol

Edited March 7, 2011 by josh817

[cygnusx1]

If you hear this, then you know you're in trouble.

 

http://blog.rickbreslin.com/extras/doink-doink.mp3

Edited March 7, 2011 by cygnusx1

[johnc]

FYI... those yellow signs that indicate a recommended speed for a turn are based on the passengers in a "typical" car feeling no more then .4Gs of lateral acceleration. Those signs are not a speed limit and you can drive through that corner at any speed up to the posted speed limit (white sign) for that road.

 

Got pulled over by a LA County Sheriff who declared I was going too fast around a corner. I asked if I was speeding and he said no, but that I was driving recklessly. After showing him my SCCA National racing license, my NASA National racing license, and both my SCCA and NASA driving instructor credentials he told me to slow down and walked away.

[Tony D]

Top Cop Quote Ever: "Your car....I see.....underneath!"

[240zphilly]

yea im positive that he did not clock my speed by any legal means, including pacing. although, as you guys commented, he can just as easily say he did.

[rednekz]

yea im positive that he did not clock my speed by any legal means, including pacing. although, as you guys commented, he can just as easily say he did.

 

 

In some police academies, part of the training requires the officers to be able to estimate the speed of a vehicle to within 5 mph. of it's actual speed.

[cockerstar]

Get a real lawyer, plain and simple. You need one!