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update as promised.

 

I'll be getting the cage and camber plates welded by a proffesional this week.

not that I couldn't do it personally I've just been having nightmares about the possibility of me hitting a hard bump and seeing my strut assembly come popping through the hood :(. So I figured I'd better leave the "its gotta be welded right the first time" stuff to the pro's.

 

So far I just finished the seat mount dieting plan and prepping those parts for zero-rust treatment as well.

 

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Got the cage and camber plates welded last week but had to tow it home in the rain so im taking care of all that before I take pics.

 

in the mean time heres what I've been worrying myself with for those who are still watching.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/104007-coil-over-install-sectioned-struts/

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Although you're not there yet, beware of "Tubing Fever." That's where you start running tubes all over the car, reinforcing this or that, based on your own internal monolog. Generally you end up with a car that's as stiff as hell but has an extra 250 lbs. of tubing run everywhere.

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Or for the other perspective, read the threads from "blainefab" over at corner-carves.com and TUBE IT UP!!! :P

 

I think the worst case scenario is a cage with tubes that don't add stiffness to the suspension pickup points, tubes that go to the middle of an unsupported span (your door bars), or tubes that have bends that don't need to be there at all. To my mind this is much worse than making it "too stiff".

 

As a victim of TFS (tubing fever syndrome) I can say in retrospect that if I were to do it all over knowing what I know now, I'd have about the same number of tubes, might even have more, but they'd be more efficiently used. A lot of cage design in a Z has to do with the spring rate you want to run. Higher the spring rate, the stiffer it needs to be. As to checking what is really necessary, that can be done by measuring torsional stiffness as described in "Think Fast", but it's such a PITA I think I'd rather have an extra couple lbs in tubing. Run really thin diameter tubes for the "extra" stiffener tubes to keep the weight down. When I built my cage, SCCA was just about to redo the specs for tubing size, and there was some questionable language in the solo II rules regarding roll bars. Figuring that they were going to go up in size to increase safety, I built my 6 point with 1.75 x .120, then added the stiffeners with 1.625 x .065. They decided to go down to 1.5 x .095. Oops. If I were to cut the cage out and start over, I'd do 1.5 x .095 for the main part and then 1.375 x .049 for the stiffeners. I bet I could do the whole new cage for the weight of the 1.75" part of my existing cage...

Edited by JMortensen

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Yea I've considered all of the responses of what and you an johnc have said. I will be running a mini hoop or a dash hoop and tie the door bars into that. Then, I will most likely end up running tubes through the firewall to the strut tops. I'm trying not to go tube crazy right now because I keep telling myself this is just a street car...Yet I always find myself in my shop building a race car and can't seem to find the disconnection ;) I'm trying to keep this car sub 2600lbs but with a Q45 R-200/T56/early SBC Im already adding extra weight in the drivetrain. I'll be buying Techno Toy Tuning's rear-end conversion kit here soon and as most know, that kit is not known for its lightweight characteristics. So far my 4-point cage is 1.5"x 0.095 and depending on how much the thing weighs in already I may just decide to stick with the little 4-pointer and call it a day.

 

How much does your car weigh Jmortensen? Or what weight are you shooting for might be the better question.

 

 

We shall see what the future has in store I suppose.

 

I think the 4' of tube from the dash hoop to the strut tops will be well worth the weight in the added stiffness.

 

But I haven't tackled that monster yet because i've been working on this strut sectioning and coil-over install deal. Almost done, i think.

 

I still need to upload some pics to show progress but where im sitting with the car right now is as follows.

 

TTT camber plate tops welded,

4 point cage welded, and painted in all the spots that would not be accessable after the bar was installed. (still need to paint the rest of it)

One front strut sectioned, welded and prepped for paint.

Edited by redneck1545

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One step forward two steps back.

 

After prepping the exposed seam welds for paint today I sprayed with another coat of Zero-rust...BUUUUUT, this coat went on MUCH thicker compared to the rest of the body.

 

In hindsight I think thinned out the first coats on the undercarriage and interior. The coats I put on previously were always a little "dusty" and light black color. The properly thinned coats I put on today are a dark rich smooth coat.

 

It looks MUCH better and has caused me to want to paint the whole undercarriage and engine bay again at a minimum. If I have enough left over I'll be re-doing the interior as well.

 

So plans for tomorrow include some 3M scouring pads to scuff up the previous coats, friends, and lots of beer. Hopefully the day will conclude with a fresh properly thinned coat getting sprayed on the whole underside and interior and the car will then be ready for the seam sealer.

Edited by redneck1545

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Im planning on using the ZeroRust as a base sealer so to speak.

I plan on only having the exposed coat on the car for less than a year before I tear it all back apart

and spray some undercoating on the underside and a top coat on the interior.

 

But thank you for the heads up!

Looking back are you happy with zero rust or would you recommend por15 or something similar in the future?

Edited by redneck1545

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Re Zerorust. I used that and it seems to work great on the floorboards and engine bay BUT it chips really really bad when exposed to flying debris such as in the wheel wells. And yes I used the primer powder stuff they sell for it.

 

I've had good luck with real hammerite. I put it on with a roller and it holds up pretty well.

 

Cary

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Yeah it seems good for interior and engine bay it just chips easily in the wheel wells. I also found out to make sure you seam seal everything first as rust grows quick between plates if they are painted only.

What makes you think there isn't rust under the seam sealer? My car had tons of rust in the seams (even the ones with factory seam sealer. That's why I'm going to oil the frame rails when I'm done...

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Yeah Jon there is rust hidden inside but it starts to show visible orange rust at the seams if you dont seam seal it.. I would paint first or primer or somehow coat the bare metal then seam seal then paint the seams again.

 

Thanks Cary maybe Ill try the Hammerite to recoat the wheel wells

 

Cameron

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IMO POR 15 is qwite a bit more durable i painted some rusty pices with zero rust, POR 15 and the stuff you can get from eastwood. Banged them around other scrap metal pelted them with rocks from my lawnmower left them outside for about a mounth and POR15 coating looked better than evrything elce. So thats what im going to use. BTW thanks for all the R&D for my cadge, im trying hard to resist, but i think im going to end up doing a full teardown and blast like you did.

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Update,

Some old floor pans pics...post-1760-081747100 1330108927_thumb.jpgpost-1760-031463600 1330108930_thumb.jpgpost-1760-042852600 1330108932_thumb.jpgpost-1760-080198400 1330108933_thumb.jpg

 

Repainted and seam sealed...

 

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Suspension Stuff, stripped, painted and installed...I did relocate the LCA pivot point up by about 3/4" I think and slotted the engine mount holes in the crossmember.

All suspension components have hyperflex energy bushings installed as well.

 

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And now the brake stuff...Typical 4x4 S12W vented rotors with z31 hubs up front and Q45 hubs in the back. Honda odysee Studs up front and ARP studs in the rear. (can give part numbers if needed) The front z31 hubs have the same inner and outer bearings as the s30 but they do use the dust seal from the z31 hub. Just slap the hub up there and run it on the spindle with the nut, dont bother trying to "hand" fit the hub to the spindle as it will take more effort.

I will be running a 1" wilwood master cylinder with a rear proportioning valve. I'm changing all my lines over to 3/8-24 threads as its easier to connect to the wilwood stuff instead of having a monstrosity of metric adapters. Also rebuilt the Steering rack with some speedi boots from advanced auto parts. They are universal botos and have to be cut to fit but they work great. I used generalpurpose lithium grease on all the rack componets.

 

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Question about the cage though. My welds dont encompass the entire tube at the mounting plate ebcause of the angle required. It's REALLY hard to get a MIG torch head in there. Im considering getting it TIG'd in that location before I paint it.

Could I leave it alone and spray some paint on it or should I be worried about the weld not going all the way around the tube? The joints on the cage were all Tig welded except for the mounting plates to the car and the bar to the plate joints.

post-1760-032484000 1330110024_thumb.jpgpost-1760-072742400 1330110028_thumb.jpg

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Comments are welcome!

post-1760-093387200 1330109082_thumb.jpg

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