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How many CFM are your fans rated for?

Would it be possible to just install more powerful fans?

Is the any room to the right of left of engine for another long slim radiator?

 

This brings be back to the idea of a belt driven fan. If you could set of the center fan on a belt driven system (with the belt turning 90 degree like the original corvair fan, you could increase the speed and thus volume of the fan.

Edited by Vw-traveller

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If you haven't already contact a guy named Jake Raby. He has been very successful with rear cooling solutions in Subi powered Bays.

 

 

The most diplomatic way to explain the way I feel about Jake is to say that I’m not his number one fan.

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How many CFM are your fans rated for?

 

500cfm each

 

 

Would it be possible to just install more powerful fans?

 

I have not found any 8” fans that deliver substantially more than 500cfm. The only fans I’ve found advertised for more I don’t trust (too many CFM @ too little amps).

 

 

 

Is the any room to the right of left of engine for another long slim radiator?

 

I don’t believe the answer is more radiator. I believe it’s a matter of getting more air through.

 

 

This brings be back to the idea of a belt driven fan. If you could set of the center fan on a belt driven system (with the belt turning 90 degree like the original corvair fan, you could increase the speed and thus volume of the fan.

 

You are probably right, but I’d rather have a belly mounted radiator than to do that.

 

I have a few ideas rattling around in my head. I just need to settle on which one I want to pursue.

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I have not found any 8” fans that deliver substantially more than 500cfm. The only fans I’ve found advertised for more I don’t trust (too many CFM @ too little amps).

Being from the air cooled world I know nothing of fan reliability, summit has a couple of 8" fans with 2000+ CFM, but you're right, the amp draw is similar to the 500 CFM ones.

 

 

I don’t believe the answer is more radiator. I believe it’s a matter of getting more air through.

absolutely, seems more fan power is the only answer

 

You are probably right, but I’d rather have a belly mounted radiator than to do that.

nooo, don't give up on the compact design!

I have a few ideas rattling around in my head. I just need to settle on which one I want to pursue.

can't wait to see them come to fruition 

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Made a little progress today. I was running 50/50 anti-freeze which is about a 20% penalty in heat transfer. I purged the system and refilled with distilled water and a 12oz bottle of Red Line Water Wetter. Took it for a drive up Mt. Hood and my temps are around 15 deg. cooler.

 

I live on twisty hilly mountain roads and on the way back I drove it like a wannabe race car for about 5 miles, loading it heavily on the hills and coming out of low speed turns. The hottest it got was 203. Not sure what it would creep up to if I dropped a fan, but those numbers are livable for a summer day.

 

This means I may end up running a summer and winter coolant, but I may end up finding a fair compromise over time.

 

If I can get about 20 to 25% more airflow through the radiator I think I’d have this nailed for anything I’d want to do with it.

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The most diplomatic way to explain the way I feel about Jake is to say that I’m not his number one fan.

To each his own, I can see how someone could arrive there.

 

Most workable solution from the water cooled bay guys are two honda civic radiators in series one on each side using the original cooling vents.

 

Belly mount has been very good as well if you have the ground clearance.

 

Not really telling you anything you don't know already probably, but the people on thesamba.com have already skinned this cat.

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I looked at the Evans stuff a while back and seem to remember higher boiling points, better surface tension, etc, but I may have overlooked the heat transfer properties. I'll take another gander.

 

I've got an idea that I think will meet my needs/wants. Going to do some experimenting with a Magnehelic first to see if its plausible or delusional.

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I looked at the Evans stuff a while back and seem to remember higher boiling points, better surface tension, etc, but I may have overlooked the heat transfer properties. I'll take another gander.

 

I've got an idea that I think will meet my needs/wants. Going to do some experimenting with a Magnehelic first to see if its plausible or delusional.

 

Are you taking measurements on the air side or coolant side or both?  I would be really interested in any air pressure/air flow measurements you might take

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Are you taking measurements on the air side or coolant side or both?

 

I assume you mean upstream side of radiator and downstream side? If so, then yes. The Mag. will measure the relative difference, which is mostly what I care about.

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Had to rush that post because my son needed me.

 

I was asking if you were taking measurements of air pressure or coolant pressure. I have read that some Subi swaps have insufficient coolant system pressure to prevent boiling prior to the radiator.

 

I would be interested in the pressure drop across the radiator if you are willing to share.

 

I am an test engineer at a big windtunnel facility by trade. I have been wanting to break out a differential pressure gauge to measure air pressure in the engine bay for some time now. I have to stuff an intercooler and AC condenser back there when I get my diesel conversion finished.

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Saw a VW Bus with an EJ22 swap at a car show today. His solution to the radiator mounting problem: mount it on the roof!

 

Nice job Ron!

 

Make a Spitfire-Style Radiator Box and flow-through ducting.... Maybe one of those F5000 Style Ducts on the roof... Yeah, I can see that... yeeeeaaahhh....

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I have read that some Subi swaps have insufficient coolant system pressure to prevent boiling prior to the radiator.

 

I would like to hear more about that. I believe I’m getting a good bleed and a good seal. Curious though, can you point me where you are seeing this, please?

 

 

I would be interested in the pressure drop across the radiator if you are willing to share.

 

Will do.

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Make a Spitfire-Style Radiator Box and flow-through ducting.... Maybe one of those F5000 Style Ducts on the roof... Yeah, I can see that... yeeeeaaahhh....

 

I believe his ducting was a Coleman Grill cover... :lol:

 

Wish I took a photo! Here's one I found:

 

Bayline-59-800x533.jpg

 

Taken from: http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/08/getting-nostalgic-norcal-bayline-gathering/#chapter-legends-rarities

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Just as an aside, that race-taxi has about 205 more HP than my 62 did, but it's 1500kg, and my bus was only 2315# plus my 175 (ahem, "at the time")!

 

Try that with worn center post bushing ... Suddenly 15:[email protected] mph never sounded so death defying!

 

I should have been able to pull 12's with that engine...but snapping axles, and jacking stink bug actions with 5.60-15 tires really limited it... Though a crowd pleaser was busing the wheels loose into JC Penny $19 each Bias-Ply Retread Boiling Rolling Burnouts at the top of second gear about 30 mph through 3rd when the boost came on.

 

As I aged, I found a 175hp Turbo 2-Liter was a nice ride and ran slightly faster in the 1/4...

 

Now this shows up....

 

You BAStard!

 

Well, there is the '66 I guess!

 

Or...hey, what you think I can get out of 657ccs of turbocharged Suzuki Fury?

 

post-380-0-52560200-1407604095_thumb.jpg

Edited by Tony D

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I would like to hear more about that. I believe I’m getting a good bleed and a good seal. Curious though, can you point me where you are seeing this, please?

 

 

 

Will do.

Take a look at this guys build. Discussion on temps is half way down page 18 or 19.

 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=562094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=360

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Now this shows up....

 

You BAStard!

 

 

     I finally got Tony to curse me. Mission accomplished! :mrgreen:

 

Or...hey, what you think I can get out of 657ccs of turbocharged Suzuki Fury?

 

 

     The Fury looks way cool. Engine size a little on the little side. Is there room for something meatier? Maybe the Chevy Cruze 1.4 Turbo motor? Or even a Suby?

 

 

Take a look at this guys build. Discussion on temps is half way down page 18 or 19.

 

 

    Oh heavens. Looks like his issue was trapped air in the heater core & plumbing. I’m not running a heater (yet) and have absolutely no issues getting mine burped. Still, after he figured that out, he’s idling at a higher temp than I am running down the road at 60. I just got back this morning from an 80 mile round trip on the freeway with about a 400lb payload and never broke 200 degrees (oil temp was around 220). His idle temps are higher than that… with his fan on.

 

     Mine does nothing evil or inconsistent. It’s very stable and predictable. It’s never come close to actually getting *hot*. The thing that I’m wanting to address is having more margin for failure, i.e. I’d like to rely less on the fans and more on natural airflow.

 

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Got around to doing some testing with a Mag.

 

MagnehelicTest-Magnehelic_zps7cda51da.jp

 

MagnehelicTest-HighPressurePort_zps11ce4

 

MagnehelicTest-LowPressurePort_zps94b3b3

 

 

 

And the results are… nearly zero pressure differential at 40 & 50mph. Got a tenth of an inch or so of water column at 60mph (fans were off). I was expecting to see a small differential, but I wasn’t expecting to see practically nothing. Frankly I’m amazed at how well it’s doing on just fans and a quality radiator.

 

I tied a streamer to the upper intake vent to make sure airflow was from the top and downward and not the opposite. Went for another drive (fans off) and the streamer confirmed the correct airflow direction.

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Thanks for the measurements. Based on reading else where, I was coming to the conclusion that the air velocity was so low out of the side vents that it basically stagnates in the engine bay. I also read the original type 4 fan was designed to pull from a static air plenum.

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