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garcenw

Questions for those that have put an STI R180 into a 280Z

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I've searched various forums and have found a few topics regarding putting an STI R180 in a 280Z, but there always seem to be some detail missing. My car is a manual transmission 1976 280Z coupe and thus has the R200 mustache bar and the driveshaft that mates to an R200. I already know that I need new side output flanges which are available from John Williams or Silvermine motors, but I have the following questions:

 

1) Will the my mustache bar mate up to the STI R180 without modification or do I need to get the mustache bar out of a '77 - '78 automatic car which came with an R180?

 

2) Will the input flange from my stock R200 fit the input splines of the STI R200? If not, what did you do to mate up with the driveshaft of the manual transmission car?

 

3) Are there any other issues one needs to tackle to get the STI R180 to fit into the 280Z?

 

Thanks.

 

- Walt

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Posted (edited)

1) Will the my mustache bar mate up to the STI R180 without modification or do I need to get the mustache bar out of a '77 - '78 automatic car which came with an R180?

 

You need the inverse of an R200 swap. Therefore you need an R180 S30 (70-78 with R180) mustache bar.

 

2) Will the input flange from my stock R200 fit the input splines of the STI R200? If not, what did you do to mate up with the driveshaft of the manual transmission car?

 

I don't know about your R200 pinion fitting. I would guess it wouldn't, but only thing you can do is try. You would need an S30 R180 pinion flange. An R200 280z driveshaft isn't required for the swap in a 240z, so you shouldn't need a different driveshaft for the STI R180 assuming you get a Datsun pinion flange to fit. However, it would probably end up more cost effective just to have your driveshaft modified to fit the STI diff rather than source a Datsun R180 flange if the R200 one doesn't fit.

 

3) Are there any other issues one needs to tackle to get the STI R180 to fit into the 280Z?

 

Axles / axle stubs

Mustache bar

Pinion

Rear cover? Lemme check photos on the rear cover studs...

Edited by jthom5147

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We'll that clears things up (not). At least I now know it's not the converse of an R200 swap. :)

 

It does clear things up, by quite a lot.  He answered each question, specifically.  But you have to put some of your own thought in to it.  The first question about mustache bars kind of shows that you haven't even really started thinking yet, or that you don't trust your own thinking.  You were on track with the comment about automatic R180's but apparently didn't trust your own thought process.  There's a ton out there about R200 swaps.  Read up.

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Posted (edited)

jthom5147,

 

Not being rude - hence the smile emoji. When I first saw your answer all that came up was "You need the Inverse of R200 swap", but I figured it was more than that due to the input side uncertainties as you explained in your edited post. The input side was the thing I was least sure about. Either way, thanks for your input. Pics of the cover would be appreciated when you get a chance.

 

NewZed,

 

jthom5147 edited his post, so you probably didn't see his original answer, so the humor isn't tracking. I found posts and and even one online tutorial web page on a swap into a 240Z, but was mostly unsure about the the input side on the 280Z.

Edited by garcenw

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Posted (edited)

The old edit without ID'ing what's edited...  I always add an "edit" in front of my edits.

 

Here's a good site for comparing parts, and sometime the Google will even find old stock for you - http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/Z-1969-1978

 

If you get the Wolf Creek racing axles, it actually is kind of the inverse of an R200 swap.  Except for the pinion shaft flange.

 

http://www.wolfcreekracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=31

 

Edit - the reason it's like an inverse R200 if you get the axles is because you can use your stock halfshafts.  R180 mustache bar, Nissan pinion flange or modified propeller shaft, and the diff axles, and you're rolling.

Edited by NewZed

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Posted (edited)

NewZed,

 

I had checked that fiche a few weeks ago and saw three different part numbers for the input flange, which is why I asked. I wasn't sure if the R180 input flange had the same female spline as the two different R200 input flanges.

 

I understood the inverse reference, but it wasn't necessarily applicable on the input side which may require a little more investigative work or modified driveshaft (as you mentioned). Since it doesn't appear that one needs a 280Z drive shaft to do an R200 swap into a 240, it's starting to sound like the simplest path mechanically is to get an R180 input flange which would indeed make it an inverse operation. The issue there may be finding one without buying a whole used R180. Finding an automatic 280Z mustache bar may also take some work, as it's not the same part number as the 240Z R180 mustache bar, so it it's not clear that they are interchangeable (there are 6 different mustache bar part numbers for 1970 - 1978).

Edited by garcenw

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Drive shafts flanges came in I think 4 different patterns. So be wary of which one you get. I do know my 240z drive shaft came off my R180 and bolted onto an R200.

 

1. As others have mentioned you need a 240z mustaches bar. Make sure of the orientation, it is backwards of how the R200 mounts. The bolt hole spacing for the rear cover from what I recall is the same for the R180. If I remember my STI diff, it used bolts instead of studs like the Z cars do.

 

2. The R200 front pinion flange may swap according to some older posts, but the dust shield may need trimming according to that same older post.

 

3. I don't believe the input shafts will mesh, hence the factory style input axles being offered specifically for the STI diff swap from beta motorsports. Futofab and wolf creek are other suppliers.  These allow the use of the stock style u-joint axle or the use of the Porsche 930 style  axles. Alternatively you can run the STI axles, using the input that comes factory and have new axles machined with the correct splines to fit a variety of adapters.

 

Of note if you are running a swapped engine or a higher output power plant the step down to the R180 may not prove wise according to the late John Coffey.

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I am currently running a STI R180 torsen. I had to get a R180 mustache bar that is post 72 as the pre 72 mustache bar I had held the diff an 1in backwards than it is suppose to be. 

 

you need a 72+ R180 mustache bar

R180 input flange as a R200 input flange will not work on the STI

You will need your drive shaft flange changed to match the R180 input flange probably. I already had a R180 driveshaft so I simply used my input flange on the STI R180. 

I did not get wolf creeks system, but got http://www.driveshaftshop.com/import-axles/datsun-510-240z-with-r180-differential-108mm-cv-conversion-kit which includes the CV axles and the Stub Axles that push snap into the diff.

I also bought the Ron Tyler diff mount as well for my setup.

 

So far it's held up to a LS1 with slight abuse. 

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Posted (edited)

What about the R200 half-shafts? Do the various stub axles available space out their flanges so the lateral distance to hub is the same as an R200 or does one need to get the longer R180 half-shafts?

Edited by garcenw

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you need.

 

-r200 mustache bar, reverse it

 

 

Don';t know why a car company would make two parts if they could just flip one and make it work.  But, who knows.

 

The bar and diff mount rubber are flexible enough that you can probably pry any combination parts around and get the bolts in.  Half shaft angle will affect vibrations though.

 

The automatic 280Z R180 bar is probably stronger and/or stiffer than the 240Z bar, to keep up with the heavier car and bigger engine,  Seems like the best route.

post-8864-0-64126000-1498755107_thumb.png

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Even though the 240Z driveshafts are supposedly different, MSA has only one part number for it the 72 - 78 coupe driveshaft assembly.

 

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic22e01/22-1002

 

Perhaps the R180 pinion flange bolt pattern on 70 -71 are different and all the 72 and later pinion flanges have the same bolt pattern/interface.

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