Jump to content


Photo

Adding Clutches to the CLSD R200


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#1 240hoke

240hoke

    Totally Addicted

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1429 posts
  • LocationNC

Posted 29 December 2006 - 10:04 PM

This pretty basic for most of you I would assume. But I thought I would post up a step by step guide on rebuilding the clutch packs in the z31 R200 LSD.

First off here there are a couple great threads about this diffy floating around.

Here is the main one:
http://forums.hybrid...ad.php?t=112921

In summary a large problem with the nissan CLSD was that from the factory, presumably to save money, they only installed two clutches and filled the extra space in the clutch pack with two spacers. This, along with wear over time, makes many of these LSD's very weak with almost no breakaway torque. These spacers can be removed and replaced with extra clutches, to make the unit have a total of 6 clutches, how it should have come from the factory. Shims are then added to adjust the breakaway torque. The differential can also just be shimmed without the addition of clutchs for a quick fix.

Phyxius was kind enough to design and have new clutches cut from spring steel and offered them as a group buy here on hybrid. The stock units are now NLA. I used his clutches for my rebuild. Cant thank him enough for taking the time to draw these and have them made!

__________

Start by removing the rear diffy cover and the main bearing caps. This will alow the LSD unit to be pulled out. Its take a good bit of wiggling and working but will eventually come free, I used a wooden dowel and taped it easily through the axles holes to get it started.

KEEP TRACK OF THE SPACERS, the LSD unit is aligned in the case with spacers on both side. Take pictures and/or mark which side they go on.

Posted Image

Here is the LSD unit and the spacers laid out on the bench:
Posted Image

Next remove the ring gear, once hte bolts are removed It should slide off fairly easy with a few taps from a rubber mallet. I marked the position of mine relative to the LSD housing for safe measures. Once the ring gear is removed you will gain access to the four phillips screws that hold the unit together.

These can be a pain to get out as the unit is loaded. Grab a couple spare bolts and nuts and put them through the ring gear holes to take pressure off the screws. Once you get the screws out you can open the LSD housing and take out the internals. You will see:

spacer (which will be removed)
spring disc
spring disc
plate
clutch
plate
center section
plate
clutch
plate
spring disc
spring disc
spacer (which will be removed)

Heres a picture of the contents laid out on the work bench (sans spacers):
Posted Image
The discs with internal tabs are the clutches. The discs on the ends that look like plates are springs they are dished (kinda hard to see in the picture)

With the new clutches the unit will be assymbled as follows:
spring disc
spring disc
clutch
plate
clutch
plate
clutch
center section
clutch
plate
clutch
plate
clutch
spring disc
spring disc

This is just the beginning thoug heh. You must test the brekaway torque for the differential and shim it to your liking Here is an excellent site which has alot of information on the R200 LSD and specific information on testing:
http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/lsd1.asp

I bought .004 SS shim stock from Mcmaster. I use the spacer as a template and cut the stock using a good pair of scissors. The shim will look like this:
Posted Image

Here is a picture of my testing apparatus using r200 stub axles:
Posted Image

I used a cheap ($10) beam style torque wrench from autozone to make the measurements. It was placed on the bar at the welded nut you see in the picture. All differentials are going be give slightly different results bases on the wear of the clutches and the thickness of the new clutches along with the co ef of friction provided by the type of oil you use,

however here are my results which may help as a baseline, I used Mobil 1 sythetic gear lube (75w-90) and Tran X LSD additive. I mixed up approximatly the amount that you would have in the differential to get the right ratio for testing.

A base line test without shims netted me 45 lb/ft for breakaway...

(.004 SS shims)
4 Shims - 60 ft-lbs
5 Shims - 75 ft-lbs
6 Shims - 90 ft-lbs

From research on this board and other sites, it seem that 60-75 ft-lbs is best suited for a street/autocross car perhaps you may want a little tighter for the track, its all your preference.

Putting it back together is the same as disasymbly, make sure the case marking on the LSD unit align and you get your bolts torque down to spec. Its a good idea to replace the axle seals as well while youve got the unit apart. Torque specs for the rear main caps are 65-72 ft-lbs.

Hope this helps some of you get started I wasnt sure what I was doing and thanks to JMortensen and others I got it figured out.

1971 240z w/ VQ35DE

www.HokePerformance.com

Modern Performance. Vintage Style. 

FaceBook Page


#2 spork

spork

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
  • LocationLindsborg, Kansas

Posted 30 December 2006 - 05:08 AM

Good write up, hope someone makes this a sticky!
James Roraback
1983 Nissan 280zxt 11.39@129.38
Lonewolf Performance

#3 JMortensen

JMortensen

    Retired Admin.

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12432 posts
  • LocationSeattle area, WA

Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:25 AM

It's a great write up, but it only affects the 10 or 15 people that bought Phyxius's clutches, so maybe not sticky material.

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#4 spork

spork

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
  • LocationLindsborg, Kansas

Posted 01 January 2007 - 07:50 PM

Then maybe we'll have to have some more clutches made...simple as that.
James Roraback
1983 Nissan 280zxt 11.39@129.38
Lonewolf Performance

#5 A. G. Olphart

A. G. Olphart

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • LocationCALIFORNIA

Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:07 PM

Then maybe we'll have to have some more clutches made...simple as that.


Sounds good to me...
Hybrid, hybrid, winding tight
In the canyons of the night,
What mere mortal hand and eye
Hath formed thy fearful symmetry?

______________
A.G.

#6 Guest_TeamNissan_*

Guest_TeamNissan_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:38 PM

It's a great write up, but it only affects the 10 or 15 people that bought Phyxius's clutches, so maybe not sticky material.


Alot of people do have z31 r200's though no?

#7 A. G. Olphart

A. G. Olphart

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • LocationCALIFORNIA

Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:08 AM

Alot of people do have z31 r200's though no?


It was and likely still is the predominant LSD swap. For quite a while it was akin to the holy grail (until a few high HP guys started twisting the ears off the factory clutch packs). Check out Jon's sticky for the full story.

A source of inexpensive clutch parts for these would be very nice; factory parts are said to be exorbitant. I wonder if they are any cheaper through 'Power Brute', which Jon says is the same diff?



<>
Hybrid, hybrid, winding tight
In the canyons of the night,
What mere mortal hand and eye
Hath formed thy fearful symmetry?

______________
A.G.

#8 JMortensen

JMortensen

    Retired Admin.

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12432 posts
  • LocationSeattle area, WA

Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:31 AM

I'm pretty sure the factory clutches are NLA. I think we had someone checking on Power Brute clutches (bjhines???) and we never heard back about it. Phyxius's deal was an incredible bargain and I was really surprised at how few people took advantage of it.

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#9 A. G. Olphart

A. G. Olphart

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • LocationCALIFORNIA

Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:50 AM

Phyxius's deal was an incredible bargain and I was really surprised at how few people took advantage of it.


At the time that deal went down, I'd not yet found one of the fabled diffs...
One has since finally come through the tear it apart myself yard that I frequent.


<>
Hybrid, hybrid, winding tight
In the canyons of the night,
What mere mortal hand and eye
Hath formed thy fearful symmetry?

______________
A.G.

#10 Mikelly

Mikelly

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6285 posts
  • LocationVirginia, United States of America

Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:15 AM

It's got enough technical step by step info on differential overhauling in general that I personally feel it's worthy...

Mike

Follow me on FB at Mike's Hobby Shop!

 

I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!
mjk 1994


#11 JMortensen

JMortensen

    Retired Admin.

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12432 posts
  • LocationSeattle area, WA

Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:03 AM

My fear is that people like Team Nissan will think this applies to their stock LSD as well. So here's a warning:

THIS POST ONLY APPLIES TO ADDING CLUTCHES TO A Z31T LSD. THE SHIMMING INFO DOES NOT CORRELATE TO A STOCK DIFFERENTIAL. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE ADDITIONAL CLUTCHES THAT PHYXIUS SOLD IN THE GROUP BUY OR CLUTCHES YOU MADE WHICH ARE THE EXACT SAME THICKNESS, IGNORE THE SHIMMING INFORMATION AS IT WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU!!!

If you want to shim your stock LSD, check this thread: http://forums.hybrid...ead.php?t=92629

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com


#12 Guest_TeamNissan_*

Guest_TeamNissan_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:24 AM

I actualy have a helical lsd not a clutch type. I'm not an idiot man lol.

My fear is that people like Team Nissan will think this applies to their stock LSD as well. So here's a warning:

THIS POST ONLY APPLIES TO ADDING CLUTCHES TO A Z31T LSD. THE SHIMMING INFO DOES NOT CORRELATE TO A STOCK DIFFERENTIAL. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE ADDITIONAL CLUTCHES THAT PHYXIUS SOLD IN THE GROUP BUY OR CLUTCHES YOU MADE WHICH ARE THE EXACT SAME THICKNESS, IGNORE THE SHIMMING INFORMATION AS IT WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU!!!

If you want to shim your stock LSD, check this thread: http://forums.hybrid...ead.php?t=92629



#13 Mikelly

Mikelly

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6285 posts
  • LocationVirginia, United States of America

Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:35 AM

Exactly my point... We provide accurate info and let those who have the brainpower use it appropriately. Beyong that, it's not our problem...

Mike

Follow me on FB at Mike's Hobby Shop!

 

I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!
mjk 1994


#14 Guest_zfan_*

Guest_zfan_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 February 2007 - 05:05 PM

After recieving 6 clutches from Joshua I tore down the r200 lsd and removed the 2 bad clutches and 2 spacer rings, added the 6 new clutches. I checked the break away torque and found it to be almost 77 ft. lbs.

I was a bit suprised but then realized I had brain farted as I was not checking the break away wet....duh! I added diff. fluid and came up with 62 ft. lbs wet. I then made my own shim which was .022 " thick. After adding that shim I rechecked the break away torque and found it to be approx. 90 ft. lbs.

It was a piece of cake and I will be reinstalling it back in the Z next week. Now to do the same thing to my friends r200 lsd!

Thanks,
Mike

#15 Guest_zfan_*

Guest_zfan_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 February 2007 - 05:00 PM

The new clutches worked like a charm. Just got in from road testing it and it worked just like I had hoped, thanks Joshua!

Mike

#16 Poundz9oh9

Poundz9oh9

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • LocationFayetteville, NC

Posted 28 February 2007 - 01:06 PM

So, are these clutches still available or was it a one time deal??
---Marcus---
77 280Z The typical "Work in Progress" for this site :)

#17 Guest_zfan_*

Guest_zfan_*
  • Guests

Posted 01 March 2007 - 02:40 PM

PM Joshua! He sold me 6 recently.

#18 Poundz9oh9

Poundz9oh9

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • LocationFayetteville, NC

Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:30 PM

Yeah, I got with him just a little bit after I posted that. Should be good to go. Thanks!!
---Marcus---
77 280Z The typical "Work in Progress" for this site :)

#19 bjhines

bjhines

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1905 posts
  • LocationCary, NC

Posted 30 May 2007 - 12:27 PM

I think I have found R-200 CLSD internal replacement parts!!!

Tell me if this is wrong!

http://www.mynismo.c...oducts/?id=3102
Definitely on the Dark Side

#20 JMortensen

JMortensen

    Retired Admin.

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12432 posts
  • LocationSeattle area, WA

Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:07 PM

Sounds right. The trick is going to be ordering them. I tried to order from Nissan and they were NLA, I expect this will fall apart when you try to order. Hope I'm wrong...

Jon Mortensen, owner/operator www.petdoorstore.com





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users