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iceman2k6

ka24de & 77 l28e 5spd

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ok i have done a search and found a little info but i want to get a definite answer.:redface: i want to swap a ka into a z without changing the gearbox. i know u have to get the ecu, engine, throttle linkage, and new mounts. my question is kinda simple will the stock l28 5pd work with the ka and what else am i mising from the swap. i figure the power steering pump has to be moved. also am i just wasting my time doing this. i see that according to the Wikipedia that the ka has more HP/LBS than the l28. i want to eventually piece together a ka(t). thank you for any info you can give me. once again i did search and found some stuff but i would like a answer from someone that have done it. :eek:

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unless there's a trans adapter out there that I don't know about, I'm sure the L tranny will not bolt up.

 

AK-Z installed his motor and ran into clearance issues for the lower oil pan and the front crossmember. I just got my KA24de and I will probably make modifications to the pan to clear. I still have to check the oil pickup dimension though.

 

I am also going turbo. And for fuel management I will be using the megasquirt ems. I have a ct26 from an mr2turbo that I will be using. KA-t.org is a great website for ka turbo info.

Good Luck with your project.

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unless there's a trans adapter out there that I don't know about, I'm sure the L tranny will not bolt up.

 

AK-Z installed his motor and ran into clearance issues for the lower oil pan and the front crossmember. I just got my KA24de and I will probably make modifications to the pan to clear. I still have to check the oil pickup dimension though.

 

I am also going turbo. And for fuel management I will be using the megasquirt ems. I have a ct26 from an mr2turbo that I will be using. KA-t.org is a great website for ka turbo info.

Good Luck with your project.

 

Wrong. I just ran my cross member about 1/2" forward, because I have a tube chassis up front.

 

Issues withe transmission. You "can" simply just bolt up the transmission to the KA block, but.... the transmission will sit about 10 degrees to the the left , so the shifter will sit towards the driver side, instead of sitting straight up and down.

 

Issues with removing the power steering pump. The same belt runs the water pump, so you can't just remove it.

You'll need both alternator brackets from a KA24"E" (sohc) engine. This will locate the alternator about an inch back so it runs inline with the water pump. Then you will also need a thermostat housing from the the sohc engine, because you'll run into issues of the belt rubbing if you use the dohc housing.

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The stock KA doesn't sit straight up and down... its tilted, and with L tranny will tilt it to the opposite side. I know this for a FACT, I've owned several 240sx's, and am helping a friend with an install in his 620 with a 'KA' tranny. The L tranny tilts it more like 15degrees. I am also doing the same combo in my 240z... 280z 5spd and KA24de.

 

This pic is of a KA with its normal 5spd... tilted.

 

2h7gkew.jpg

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The stock KA doesn't sit straight up and down... its tilted, and with L tranny will tilt it to the opposite side. I know this for a FACT, I've owned several 240sx's, and am helping a friend with an install in his 620 with a 'KA' tranny. The L tranny tilts it more like 15degrees. I am also doing the same combo in my 240z... 280z 5spd and KA24de.

 

This pic is of a KA with its normal 5spd... tilted.

 

2h7gkew.jpg

 

NO. I have already confirmed it. I bolted my L28 5 speed to the KA. I know how the KA sits.

 

Don't believe me? I can bolt it back on there and take pics.

 

To have it sit properly, you need to swap the KA bell housing ONTO the L28 5 speed.

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I gotta go with AK-Z on this one, swapping of the L28 bellhousing to make it sit correctly is what people going the other way do.

 

The engine mounts determine the attitude of the engine, and the transmission is set from there. Since the oil pan on the engine is usually not changed...you are stuck making the transmission line up to the bolt pattern of the engine, not the other way around.

 

To get a gearshift in the center of the hole with a KA sitting in the proper angle relative the the stock oil sump, you need a KA housing on an L28 Tranny (and that swap is covered in detail elsewhere, in reverse as mentioned above.)

 

Or use a KA Tranny instead with all that entails, subject to fore-aft positioning of the whole assembly.

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NO. I have already confirmed it. I bolted my L28 5 speed to the KA. I know how the KA sits.

 

Don't believe me? I can bolt it back on there and take pics.

 

To have it sit properly, you need to swap the KA bell housing ONTO the L28 5 speed.

 

What are you saying no to? The picture is of a ka bolted to a ka tranny with ka brackets. Its tilted to the drivers side... just cause I'm new here, doesn't mean I'm new to datsuns. The only real issues, as stated by Tony D are the oil pan, This is a non issue for me since the motor I am using is from a 4x4 frontier, the pan is flat on the bottom instead of angled like the 2wd frontier and the 240sx, and the brackets... but in a 240-280Z chassis, its not gonna bolt to the L6 crossmember anyway, so again... non issue. I'm not theorizing here, just stating facts.

 

As far as bellhousings, the normal way of doing it is to use the Zseries bell, which is identical in bolt pattern to the KA (KA being a newer version of the Z-series block). Later Z bells require larger bearings and a bit of modding, early ones don't.

 

This pic is of a stock 240sx engine bay...

 

3295976670_d9ec740a2d.jpg

 

Its tilted... to the driverside.

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Ummm. read the thread title.

 

KA24DE (ENGINE) + L28 5 speed (TRANSMISSION) = shift jamming into your leg.

 

The KA 5 speed, is NOT the SAME as the L28 5speed.

 

And what I was saying "NO" to was this statement

The stock KA doesn't sit straight up and down... its tilted, and with L tranny will tilt it to the opposite side.

 

Just because the engine is "tilted" doesn't mean that the transmission is, engineers are clever that way.

 

And as tony said the engine tilt angle is determined by the oil sump.

 

BTW I don't even look at post counts. I didn't even know you were new here. Never called you a noob, or questioned your knowledge of car. someone is jumping to conclusion.

 

EDIT: Bolting tranny on tomorrow. Going to show proof and put an end to all these assumption.

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I know the thread title thats why I am saying... using the L28 tranny, in its normal position, and then bolting the KA to it and making the brackets suit the opposite tilt, CAN work, its not impossible. As far as the oil pan its possible to using the L6 pan + the KA pan and make one that works properly with the newly opposite tilted KA. MY oil pan doesn't require it to be reworked, the OP probably will if he is not using the same pan, OR he will have to avoid hard cornering since the oil will be 'sloshed' to the side all the time.

 

You said;

 

Issues withe transmission. You "can" simply just bolt up the transmission to the KA block, but.... the transmission will sit about 10 degrees to the the left , so the shifter will sit towards the driver side, instead of sitting straight up and down.

 

thats why I said that the engine does NOT sit straight up and down, and thats why I refered to the KA tranny and how using it positions the motor. I'm not saying you're full of crap, just saying your not completely correct either.

 

KA24DE (ENGINE) + L28 5 speed (TRANSMISSION) = shift jamming into your leg.

 

I did not say the transmission is tilted, but without modifying the trans crossmember, and bolting the KA to the L tranny, the engine WILL tilt the opposite way it normally tilts, the shifter won't move, because the transmission is not moving... the engine is tilted the opposite way to avoid modifying these areas. Do you see what I mean now?

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you just don't even bother reading anymore do you... I wasn't arguing with you, not at all. You're trying so hard to be right, you don't even realize we're talking about two different things. :rolleyes:

 

To answer your question YES, I have, we have a 280z, 280zx, and 240z trannies here, the 280zx has a Z-series bell for my friends truck (necessary for his install), mine is 280z and will retain the stock bell (doesn't really matter for mine), and we have 2 KAs, 1 L16, and 1 L24...

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ok i was told something totally different, in order to retain the stock l28 5 spd, you would have to pull the 56mm bearing off the counter shaft and replace it with,62mm one, the ka transmissions bell housing has to be used,but there is a problem the 280zx top shift rod is 14mm in diameter, but the ka bell housing has a 16mm hole for the 71c larger shaft. only the 1st/2nd shift rod was enlarged to 16mm, the other two are 14mm; The same as the 71b, bu

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so you guys are saying my 77 280z with my 280zx 5spd will bolt directly and work correctly with the ka24de with out any mods?

 

Thats a baited question... I don't believe anyone said that at all. If you are still talking about bell swapping, then no I don't think so... unless you are using the exact same parts me and my buddy did, which is 85 720 5 spd bell (Z-series bell is identical bolt pattern to the KA) and an 83 280zx 5spd. I can't confirm that all years have the same size bearings or what years have the larger bearings. We ripped the bell out of a truck at the local Pull-a-Part, and paid $11.

 

For my swap, I am using a 280z 5spd, and KA, its will not bolt in, the tranny will sit normally as if it had an L6 motor, the engine cradle will be custom anyway so what do I care about fabbing motor mounts, and the oil pan on MY motor is flat whereas most KAs have an angled oil pan... but I wouldn't mind fabbing an oil pan though. I just don't want to pull another tranny apart in the wrecking yard... :icon45:

 

However, if you only mean, will the transmission bolt up and work? Yes absolutely. Use the clutch kit and all clutch parts that match the transmission... ka flywheel will bolt to a L and L flywheel will bolt to a KA (except L16 and L18 they are 5 bolt)... there are 3 different clutch diameters though, 200mm, 225mm, and 240mm, I am using a 225mm, I think its a good compromise for to size and centrifigul weight, but thats my opinion, most seem to like the infamous 200mm 'roadster' clutch.

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yea i guess im fishing a little bit lol, i actually need to find out again what my 5spd is from, when i got the car for free!! it already had the 5spd in it. so now i just need to determine the year. A custom cradle for my swap will definitly be used, an im trying to think of a way that i can convert to dry sump, maby make a kit and sell it. Any machine shop can put a different bushing in the trans to make the bearing hole bigger or smaller, i just thought it would be better if i didnt have to go through all the nonsense and just bolt it up and go.

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The smaller countershaft bearing (56mm) has a tendency to fail, which is why nissan upgraded to the larger (62mm) bearing for newer models. We did in fact swap that bearing using just a plain old 3 jaw bearing puller, but the shift rod holes were the same size.

 

Here is the tranny all assembled, you can see the location of the bolt holes matches the KA tranny, the L bells holes are rotated about 15degrees clockwise when looking at the back of the tranny.

 

Justin001.jpg

 

Justin004.jpg

 

here is the two next to each other... L on the right Z on the left. This is the front of the tranny (obvious but just to be clear)

 

utf-8BSU1HMDAyMDYuanBn.jpg

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The smaller countershaft bearing (56mm) has a tendency to fail, which is why nissan upgraded to the larger (62mm) bearing for newer models. We did in fact swap that bearing using just a plain old 3 jaw bearing puller, but the shift rod holes were the same size.

 

Here is the tranny all assembled, you can see the location of the bolt holes matches the KA tranny, the L bells holes are rotated about 15degrees clockwise when looking at the back of the tranny.

 

Justin001.jpg

 

Justin004.jpg

 

here is the two next to each other... L on the right Z on the left. This is the front of the tranny (obvious but just to be clear)

 

utf-8BSU1HMDAyMDYuanBn.jpg

L is on the right and Z is on the left???

Z = L. Where's the KA? Please clarify your clarification. :-)

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what is the ka24de out of? if 240sx, and you want to make over 300hp-under 400, i would go with a ka transmission. the output shaft from your stock driveshaft will slip in, you just gotta shorten it, should only cost $80 or less to do that. i made my 98 240sx ka fit nicely with stock 240sx trans. simply line up the shifter. make a trans mount, then line up the engine and make xmember. wow, looks like alot of people are doing ka swaps. I wonder if my posting of a working setup helped some people dream this up. my build... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=149772

 

well good luck, be sure to take measurements before you choose a trannny setup, whatever you decide, and watch out for the oil pan and crossmember up front.

good luck!

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Z is not refering to Zcar tranny... if you had read my previous posts in this thread you would have seen that I was refering to the Z-series (as in Crossflow 4cylinder datsun Z20, Z22, Z24).

 

I never knew anyone had done a KA swap when I started my planning. My friend has an extra KA, and I was already very familiar with them, when I looked into the stock HP numbers of the L24 I was surprised that the KA had more power and torque, so it was a no brainer. As of now I have no plans to go forced induction (I don't care about having a fast car right now), so the 280z tranny will work fine for me... the stock motor runs greats but burns a lot of oil. Plus I just want to do it cause I can.

 

Cool car you got there though SD, its really inspiring.

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thanks alot man! hey im stoked that your gonna do it too! not a common swap that is done. but i think its gonna be the next big thing. :mrgreen:

 

sorry i didn't catch the napz tranny part. i was getting tired of scanning through all the arguing and such. i wouldn't know about that tranny, but i think it is shorter than the 240sx transmission based on what my mechanic friend who owns an older nissan truck said. he wanted to swap in a ka, but he said the trans was too long or something on the 240sx and he would have to shift farther back. but thats just what he said....

 

but ya, if it works for you then be sure to show a couple pics for me when your done. don't let the secret die with you when you go 200mph with the turbo setup!:burnout:

 

anyways, good luck! and give me a halla if you want some tips on turboing it and random questions. glad to help if i can. later man.

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thanks alot man! hey im stoked that your gonna do it too! not a common swap that is done. but i think its gonna be the next big thing. :mrgreen:

 

sorry i didn't catch the napz tranny part. i was getting tired of scanning through all the arguing and such. i wouldn't know about that tranny, but i think it is shorter than the 240sx transmission based on what my mechanic friend who owns an older nissan truck said. he wanted to swap in a ka, but he said the trans was too long or something on the 240sx and he would have to shift farther back. but thats just what he said....

 

but ya, if it works for you then be sure to show a couple pics for me when your done. don't let the secret die with you when you go 200mph with the turbo setup!:burnout:

 

anyways, good luck! and give me a halla if you want some tips on turboing it and random questions. glad to help if i can. later man.

 

When I was explaining the Z tranny, I was telling wizardblack since he asked. You are right though, the KA tranny is longer, but the napsZ tranny bolts to the KA, has the correct lean, and is the same length as the Lseries tranny, SO your mechanic friend has it easy if he has the napsZ based truck.

 

I have a build thread in the project section, but nothing KA related yet. No turbo for me though, MAYBE a SC at some point... but not in the near future, I am still just in the "make it reliable" part of my build.

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Z is not refering to Zcar tranny... if you had read my previous posts in this thread you would have seen that I was refering to the Z-series (as in Crossflow 4cylinder datsun Z20, Z22, Z24).

 

I never knew anyone had done a KA swap when I started my planning. My friend has an extra KA, and I was already very familiar with them, when I looked into the stock HP numbers of the L24 I was surprised that the KA had more power and torque, so it was a no brainer. As of now I have no plans to go forced induction (I don't care about having a fast car right now), so the 280z tranny will work fine for me... the stock motor runs greats but burns a lot of oil. Plus I just want to do it cause I can.

 

Cool car you got there though SD, its really inspiring.

 

Ah, I see. I am not familiar with those so it can be a bit misleading. Thanks for the clarification.

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