BRAAP

Do you have a tendancy to explode them?

Pete, So sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope you are able to find a financially reasonable solution soon. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

Lets put this one to rest. 9Kredline has brought up some concrete evidence to prove his point and others are agreeing 100% with that. The rest of the bunch believes that it should still be called a small block due to whatever reasoning they feel. I propose that we all agree to disagree to either call it, or not call it a small block Chevy. Lets just respect each others opinions on what it should or should not be called and being as no one is calling it turd, everyone agrees that the new Gen III power plants from GM has many enhancements over the traditional Small Block which makes it one of, if not, the best yet conversion power plant for lots of vehicles with its great power to weight ratio, broad flat torque curve, drivability, reliability, etc, ……… then its all good, right? LOL Now let’s get back to our regularly scheduled tech forum and build/drive our Hybrid Z’s and share our experiences here on the Hybrid Forum so that others may benefit or expand upon our ideas and experiences… BRAAP……. OUT!

QUOTE from 9Kredline… ***All I'm seeing is the "It's my opinion" answers for the guys that think it's a small block. The dimensions argument is pointless to me, it's all about the design and technology. What makes it a small block?*** End quote… I’ll answer 9Kredline’s question with a couple more questions. Why not classify these Gen III engines as Small Block and also why are we calling the traditional Chevy engine a small Block if GM didn’t originally call them that either? Chevy is still building a much larger engine that is publicly accepted as being the Chevy Big Block. Sure it is a different design than the traditional big blocks, but the public still calls it a Big Block. Why do we do that? Because there is another version of power plant being produced by Chevy that is smaller in dimensions and being as it is smaller than the other bigger engines in production, doesn’t it only make sense to call the new Gen III engines Small blocks? There are still 2 distinct sizes of V-8 power plants being produced, Small and Big, the only difference is evolution, but they are still Small and Big no matter how you look at them. That is why we are calling the LS-1 a small block. If I understand 9Kredline’s argument correctly, it is that Corporate GM doesn’t call the LS-1 a small block, and if GM didn’t call the traditional V-8 engines by the term small block, then where does the term “Small Block” come from? Even if GM didn’t call the traditional engines, “Small block”, but the public does, then why can’t it apply to the current GM offering that is a smaller power plant than its big brother the Big Block? Not trying to be an arse , but I’m seeing a terminology conflict in what you are saying concerning calling the LS1 a small block and the “dimensions being pointless”. When it comes to classifying an engine as a “small block” or a “big block” or neither of those, when GM is producing 2 very distinctly sized engines, doesn’t it only make logical sense to continue to classify the two classes of V-8’s in such a manner? So I do think that the “dimensions” thing is very relevant to this discussion. 9Kredline says “technology” and “design” is what it s all about. If “design” and “technology” is what defines an engine as a Small block, a Big block, or as neither classification, then why are we still calling the Gen II Chevy LT 1 a small block? Compared to its predecessor, the Gen 1 1955-1990’s Chevy V-8 engine, the LT 1 is more “technologically” advanced with its completely re”design”ed block and heads with the reverse flow cooling, and that funky distributor under the water pump, and that water pump driven off of the cam instead of a V-belt… The LT 1 is a vastly different DESIGN and TECHNOLOGY than the traditional small block but it is still classified by the public as being a GM Small Block. Even the foundational core of the LT 1 engine itself, (the block and heads) aren’t interchangeable with the early engines, but yet we still call this Gen II engine a small block. The LS-1 is an LS-1, and it’s a Small block as compared to GM other larger offerings, the Big Block.

Yes, please do keep me in mind.

Silent, You've got mail....

Of all the arguments I have read thus far “against” calling the LS-1 a Small Block, the only one that holds any water is the fact that Corporate GM doesn’t call it a Small Block themselves. Ok, fair enough… BUT…… did any of us stop to think if GM ever called the traditional V-8’s by the moniker “Small” and “Big” Block back in the day when the those terms were coined? My guess is that Corporate GM called these engines by their engine code, just like GM is currently calling the all aluminum Camaro/Vette 346 CID Gen III V-8 by its engine code, “LS-1”! I’m not 100% positive, but I would guess that the general hot rodding public gave the names “Small” and “Big” Block, not GM, Ford, or Chrylser. Now if what I am proposing is true, then in reality we shouldn’t be calling our beloved Chevy 305’s 327’s 350’s 400’s 427’s, 454’s Small or Big Blocks, but be calling them by there engine code …..Right? My vote is, (if you haven’t already noticed), the LS-1 “IS” a Small block, Next……

How much for the '91 Q and has it had the timning chain fix performed yet?

I will agree that the Gen III power plants will most likely be, and should be called by its engine code or Generation, i.e. Gen III, LQ-4, LS-1 etc, especially on the forum as it makes it easier to describe exactly what engine you are talking about without being to vague, but the term “Small block Chevy” is a very generic broad encompassing description of a motor type/size. LS-1 is an engine code. LT 1, L-98, ZL-1, L-88, ZL-1, L-78, LS-7, are also engine codes, but all those engine codes are either a “Small Block” or a “Big Block”, not an broad encompassing descriptor. Now we do, and should, continue to use the engine code as a means to describe a particular power plant as that 3 digit code is a much abbreviated descriptor for a long list of design parameters and optional parts. Yes, the LS-1 is a completely different engine from pretty much every aspect, no one disputes that fact, but, YES, it is also a Small Block Chevrolet power plant, just as its brethren the 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 are all smaller in physical size and shape than the Big Blocks, which in their current production run are also much different than their predecessors, but they are all still under the descriptor Big and Small Block Chevrolet. Can we put this dead horse to rest now?

I will agree that the Gen III power plants will most likely be, and should be called by its engine code or Generation, i.e. Gen III, LQ-4, LS-1 etc, especially on the forum as it makes it easier to describe exactly what engine you are talking about without being to vague, but the term “Small block Chevy” is a very generic broad encompassing description of a motor type/size. LS-1 is an engine code. LT 1, L-98, ZL-1, L-88, ZL-1, L-78, LS-7, are also engine codes, but all those engine codes are either a “Small Block” or a “Big Block”, not a broad encompassing descriptor. Now we do, and should, continue to use the engine code as a means to describe a particular power plant as that 3 digit code is a much abbreviated descriptor for a long list of design parameters and optional parts. Yes, the LS-1 is a completely different engine from pretty much every aspect, no one disputes that fact, but, YES, it is also a Small Block Chevrolet power plant, just as its brethren the 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 are all smaller in physical size and shape than the Big Blocks, which in their current production run are also much different than their predecessors, but they are all still under the descriptor Big and Small Block Chevrolet. Can we put this dead horse to rest now?

The poll for calling the LS-1 a small block or not is... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105256 Cast you vote....

Yes, the 240 front bumper can be installed on a 280. My ’75 280 had a ’73 240 front bumper on it. I mounted mine with custom built mounting brackets and just used the OE 280 bumper mount holes. I’m not sure if the 240 mounts will line up with the 280 holes or not. I’m sure someone else will chime in with the Vin number listing

This is sort of a tough one but yet not so tough when you look at the American V-8 engines produced by the big three as a whole. I’m sure the hard core LS purists probably view the definition of Small Block Chevy as NOT encompassing the Gen III power plants, but the rest of us generic car guys probably would agree that the definition of Small Block Chevy as being the smaller of the two V-8 engine families that Chevy is currently producing. Chevy is still building a Big Block, even though it has a different code name and has gone through a few design changes, i.e. Mk IV and Mk V, etc, it is stilled called the Big Block, so why not the current iteration of the 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0 series called a Small block? Heck, even Ford calls their 289, 302/5.0 and the 351/5.8 small blocks, and Chrysler calls there 318, and 360/5.9 small blocks and both Ford and Mopar have their iteration of Big Blocks as well and the general public has accepted those monikers for those power plants, even though all of these Small and Big Block engines have undergone mild to massive changes throughout production since inception. I personally view the terms “Small Block” and “Big Block” as defining the basic overall physical dimensions of those engines. My vote is for yes, the LS-1, LS-6, LS-2 can also be called small blocks.

How bout just a little more info, like do you already have the VK56 in your possession, do you have the car that it getting the VK56, is the engine in the car yet, what tranny are you planning to use, etc…

WOW! Stunning, very nice.. You do very nice work.

Grant, Your comment about the engine only having water in the cooling system raises a new question, is the block cracked? It is very common, especially for American V-8’s, that have set over the winter with only water in them to crack during a freeze. Typically these freeze cracks are very noticeable to the naked eye, but on a few occasions the freeze cracks are small enough that they only show up during a pressure and/or magnaflux test, i.e. more $$ just find out if the block is even usable. The gasket does show definite signs of being blown, i.e. the fire ring being destroyed. The piston skirt also shows signs of moderate scuffing towards the upper skirt of the piston. Scuffing on this region of the piston skirt is typical of high combustion temps, i.e. lean mixtures over extended periods of time, detonation, etc, which tend to cause the upper portion of the piston to swell and then scuff the cylinder wall. Now high water temps tend to cause the mid to lower portion of the skirt to swell and scuff to the cylinder wall. Though, if the skirt is collapsed, i.e. the bottom of the skirt is now smaller than the mid to upper portion, the mid to upper portion could’ve scuffed just from excessive water temp, not necessarily high combustion temps, (typically, the piston is widest at and below the wrist pin when measured with a micrometer, depending on the manufacturer and material composition of the piston), This may not be exactly what you want to hear, but if you can get a decent core short block that is a runner and not a smoker, needing only a cylinder head for $150, that may be the route to take, (though how do you know for sure it is a decent run-able core that doesn’t have broken rings, collapsed pistons skirts, spun bearings, etc? All you have is the sellers word and only sometimes does it come with a guarantee.) If you have the dollars to rebuild a short block yourself, that should help put your mind at ease as to the quality of the rebuild and you will have a fresh short block that should last a good 100,000-200,000+ miles, but this piece of mind comes at a significant financial expense. Pistons, bearings, rings, timing sets, gaskets set, etc for the Datsun L-series engines are getting more and more expensive. They have always been a little more expensive to rebuild than your basic garden variety stock Chev 350, and over the past 10-15 years, the price for pistons, bearings, and such have gone up even more for the sweet heart L-series. This must be major bummer as you just came down and picked up those carbs from me last weekend and were all excited and now have to wait even longer to run them. BTW, have you been looking for air horns or found if there are any available to fit under the air cleaners? Good luck and keep us posted…

Cody, There are a number of distinguishing features, but during the 260 run, some chassis’s received a combination of these attributes so you could truly have a hybrid body, so to speak. The large 280 bumpers vs the smaller 240 bumper is the first give away but I have seen more than one 260 with a combo of small and large bumpers front and rear, (I don’t recall which end had which bumper, other than they had both styles, ODD!) With the larger front bumper also came revised lower valance and the two body parts under the headlight buckets were also different. The front lower radiator core support is different between the 240-280. The 280 style is lower for the taller radiator, which came about due the larger front bumper taking up more area in front of the radiator, i.e. restricting air flow to the radiator, so if your car has the larger front bumper, it more than likely has the 280 core support, though the smaller front bumper may also have the deeper front core support/larger radiator. The tranny tunnel on the 280 bodies is also different. The sides of the tunnel at the bottom of the car are wider for more exhaust clearance, but this added room for exhaust came at the expense of loosing some room for custom seats, i.e. the Toyota Paseo seats that fit the 240 don’t fit my 280, DRAT! The T-C rod mounts are bit bulkier on the 280 bodies vs the 240 bodies, though I’m not totally sure when that changed, maybe late 240, or during the 260 run. Hope this helps. I’m sure there are items I missed that someone else will fill in.

Silent, I received your E-mail and responded to it yesterday. Today I got a message that says delivery has been delayed, no idea what that means. Do you have another E-mail address that I can send to? braapZ350@hotmail.com

Grant, The cylinder walls look pretty typical of an engine that has set out side and/or with a blown head gasket and has set for a while, i.e. the corrosion on the cylinder walls. The block will at least need an over-bore. The deck surface does show possible signs of the fire ring loosing its seal to the deck surface at the front of cyl #1, between #3 and #4, and also at the back of cyl #6, though in most of the pics, the deck surface is a bit out of focus so it is hard to really know for sure especially without looking at the head and gasket itself. (It really doesn’t matter that he rust is there or even form which cylinders it got there, what matters is how it got there so the reason it happened in the first place can be fixed, i.e. warped deck surface, etc.) The bearing halves in the block look as though this is either a really high mileage engine, 200,000+ miles, or the previous owners were pretty lax with oil and oil filter maintenance. The bearing halves in the caps are a different story. I noticed in particular #3, #5, and #7 main bearings halves in the caps show high concentrations of wear on one side of the bearing, (the sides towards the rear of the block), though #1, #2, also show mild signs of similar wear. This can either mean the block could use align bore/hone, (meaning the crank main line is not true and straight), and/or the engine was rebuilt previously using cheap bearings such as Federal Mogul and/or the builder didn’t make absolutely sure no debris was behind the bearing half when installed, (typical of hasty rebuilds, a piece of debris only .0005” behind the bearing shell will show significant wear on the bearing as there is only typically .0015” to.003” clearance to begin with). There are a number of ways to verify if this engine has been rebuilt or not in its past life, (not that it really matters at this point whether or not it was rebuilt as you have torn it down and it “now” needs a rebuild. Right now you just need to verify why the abnormal bearing wear occurred so that it can remedied if you so choose to rebuild this engine). If you care to find out if this engine has been rebuilt, you can remove one of the bearings and on the back of the shell itself will be small stampings/engravings/embossings. If you see FM, then it had been rebuilt using Federal Mogul bearings, (Federal Mogul uses inferior material in their plain bearings and they have a tendency to loose their crush under high loads and heat and FM bearings are manufactured not true, i.e. the bearing halves are not uniform across their width). If you see the Nissan emblem embossed then these are factory bearings, but it still could’ve been rebuilt using OE bearings. Something else to check for if this engine has been rebuilt, is whether the crank has been turned. This is easy as the Rod and Main bearing shells will be stamped with the amount of undersize on the backside of the bearing shell. If this is so, you’ll see .010 or .020, etc. There is nothing wrong with a turned crank, as long as it was turned “truly round” and with no taper and of course to the proper size. You will need a micrometer to verify the quality at which any crank grinding was done if this was performed. Also, the easiest tale tells sign of a rebuild is the cylinder bore being oversized and/or aftermarket pistons. On the crank, the only thing that stands out is the #6 rod journal looks as though bearing material may have transferred to the crank journal, could just be lighting reflecting off the crank journal as well. Solely based on the pics you provided, i.e. without actually being able to verify no cranks, etc, this block does appear to be salvageable, though at what cost? NO idea till you get the engine down to a reputable machine shop so they can verify the block isn’t cracked and that the main line is in fact “true”. Worst case would be this block needs all the cylinders bored and honed, main line bore/hone, true the deck, of course tank and cleaning of all the parts etc and the cost of the engine gasket set and required parts, i.e. pistons, timing gear, etc.. Good luck, sorry I couldn’t offer forth much more help. Please do keep us posted on what transpires of your project…

Ahh... Very cool platform for the LS-1 for sure, and TT!!! WOW!!! Thanks for the heads up...

This FD, what ever thingy, sounds interesting but you still didn't explain or define the abbreviation FD? What is an FD? I thought I was fairly savvy with all the Nissan monikers but FD doesn’t ring any bells here.

Yes, my 350 powered ’75 started out as carbed motor I personal built and did all the machine work myself and when the powertrain was sold it had the Edelbrock Pro-Flo RPM EFI. Tranny was a World Class T-5 from a ’91 Trans Am. Please excuse my ignorance, what is this 93 FD/LS-1 combo you mentioned and who is NXR? Are you now considering putting the traditional SBC Z-32 conversion on hold? TIA,

Very cool. You must be STOKED!!! Looking forward to reading the full "first drive report..."

Yes, I'm interested...

Thanks Grumpy for the filter tip. That is a nice looking filter with lots of filter media area.