BRAAP

Okie Dokie.. Stabbed the 5.3 in the Z-32 mock up mule, took some pics, posted my initial thoughts an opinions in this thread linked below… http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=142025

Stabbed the 5.3 LM7 into the engine bay of the Z-32 V-8 mock up mule. Short story is that it fits just a terribly as a traditional SBC! Even tried it with a T-56 bell housing on the block, couldn't get it in the car with the bell housing attached! 1) 5.3 motor mounts lined perfectly up with the Z-32 mount pads on the cross member, puts the bell housing approx 1” off the firewall. 2) Engine is sitting on the oil pan, on the rack and pinion. 3) Engine needs to drop down approx 2-3” from this elevation, meaning a cut out in the mid section of the pan to drop the engine. 4) Sump is currently 2” below the cross member, which means the sump would need to be shortened approx 4”! 5) The F-body sump runs too far forward and would need to be cut way back, ending up like the truck pan once it was modified, shallow and not much sump left. 6 one, half dozen the other I guess. 6) The GTO front sump pan might work, again after being modified to allow the engine to sit lower, and if the cross member was left alone, would move the engine forward approx 6-7 inches! If the cross member was modified such as another member did for his Z-32, the engine would only need to be moved forward approx 4-5 inches, (I think he did it to clear the front sump of the SR20, but ended up going Turbo LT1 instead and kept the modified cross member). At any rate, The damper would be close to flush with the front core support. Radiator mounting location will take some savvy strategery, and then having the engine that far forward?... 7) With the bell housing mating surface flush with the firewall, the T-56 shifter will need a 2” dog leg to come out in the OE location. In its current position as pictured, it will need approx a 3” dog leg. In using the front sump pan, it will need?... and end up with more of an up and down motion rather than fore and aft. Unless some form of extended remote shifter can be fabricated like the Z-32 uses currently? 8) Dropping the cross member to gain some clearance and set the engine at the correct elevation looks ideal on the surface, but doing so also affects the front suspension geometry, especially when wanting to drop the cross member 2”! Would stir up all kinds of geometry issues… Friggin rack and pinion is too darn high and too far rearward in the engine bay making the Z-32 not so Hybrid friendly… ARRGHHH… Having now stabbed an L-26, a traditional SBC, and now a Gen III 5.3 in the engine bay of a Z-32, for those willing to gut out under the dash, possibly loosing some of the OE climate control ducting, etc, cutting the firewall is hands down the best alternative from many perspectives. This stubborn Zed Head is dead set on NOT cutting the firewall, even if that means installing the brides-maid instead of the Bride!.... Up next, the VH45DE, and will revisit the traditional SBC mock up, weather permitting. We are supposed be getting a big storm over the next few days... Top view; DEEP sump of the truck pan; Driver side pan perspective; Passenger side pan perspective; Again; Trans perspective; Bell housing wont fit at this elevation!;

Alright boys, take a deep breath and ... So I get the impression that amc_oldsarge feels that not all AFMs are created at least somewhat equal and he is looking for a "Z specific", N/A to Turbo AFM guts interchange write up? I can appreciate the desire for accuracy specific to his project. With my experience in tuning, tinkering, and altering, the OE Z car EFI since the late ‘80s and in looking over that link, I feel very confident is saying that write up directly applies to your N/A to Turbo guts interchange. It is very concise and should serve your N/A to Turbo guts interchange well. For what its worth, I spent a great deal of time messing with the OE Z car EFI, tried eliminating the AFM all together from the air stream, built a throttle actuated AFM, added switches to the throttle linkage to fool the ECU to adjust the injector pulse widths under specific circumstances, played with different TPS’s that have the WOT switch kick in at different throttle positions, fuel pressure pulsation dampers, etc. Most of my hair brained endeavors have been covered on this forum over the years. At any rate, early on, I learned that essentially ALL AFM,s whether they be original Bosch units used in BMW, Porsche, Volvo, or the Japanese knock offs used in Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, (our Z cars), etc, are essentially the same in architecture and design. There were subtle differences such as different resistances across the wipe boards, volume of air they are designed to measure, i.e. physical size, etc, but physically are all pretty much the same in design and the techniques used to swap parts from one to other pretty much applies to them all. If anyone knows of an instance or application this doesn’t hold true from personal experience, please share as I have been making this claim since the late ‘80s and would hate to keep perpetuating inaccurate info. Hope that helps and good luck with your project, Paul

Oh I like pictures, rest assured all will be documented with pictures that I hope will be helpful to others in the future. Just weighed the LM7 and the VH45DE as discussed in the two links below, (last year weighed a VG30DETT GM LS6 with 4L60E attached, and another LM7 with supercharger and 4L60E attached on the same scale). FWIW, the LM7 and VH45DE weigh approx 30 lbs more than a similarly equipped VG30DETT The engine weights are posted here; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246 The start of my Z-32 V-8 conversion thread with a few pics; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=142025

The book does not specifically cover the ZX, though the S-30 and S-130 are identical power train wise, have very similar engine bays, the JTR book will apply to the 280-ZX V-8 conversion, even if indirectly. The motor mounts, cooling system section, section for utilizing the factory gauges with the V-8 in the car such as oil pressure, water temp, tach, speedo, etc (JTR utilizes the factory oil pressure and water temp senders), all apply to the ZX directly. As for what sections do not apply to the ZX, hopefully some of our members that have performed the JTR conversion in their ZX will share their experience. Basically, if you are planning to V-8 your 280-ZX, you are MUCH better off WITH the JTR manual in hand than you are trying to wing it on your own, if only for the section with the diagrams for building your own motor and tranny mounts and the section on cooling, starters, transmissions, etc. The Price of admission is well worth it.

Anyone have a GTO front sump pan they want to part with for a small fee, even if temporary? Even a busted/cracked front sump GTO pan for cheap would be fine. I’m in the process of mocking up an LM7 5.3 and 2000 LS1 in the Z-32. Trouble with the Z-32 is the rack is attached to the back side of the cross member and the cross member is way rearward in the engine bay, making it difficult to hybrid these cars for pretty much any engine with a typical rear sump pan. The firewall must be cut, something I would like to avoid at all costs, even if the engine is a couple inches further forward, that is a compromise I'm willing to live with to not have to remove my dash, climate control, all the cars control goodies, revamp all that stuff so it all still works after cutting into the firewall, etc. i.e. No cutta da firewalla… The LM7 pan "might" fit behind the rack, but is too deep, approx 3" too deep. If shortened, I'm afraid it looses a good portion of its volume. Any how, this is why I would like to try the GTO front sump pan if somebody has one. Contact via PM is preferred. Thank you, Paul

Depending on where you place the engine, the oil pan will most likely have to be swapped out or modified as well. Your 5.3 pan is also very deep, probably too deep for the Z-32, i.e. hang below the cross member 2-3 inches with the crank centerline set for proper tail shaft to diff alignment. Just pulled the LM7 5.3 out of my wifes '01 Suburban a couple weeks ago. This weekend, weather permitting, I will be stabbing the 5.3 in the engine bay of my Z-32 V-8 mock up mule, (as well as my VH45DE, though leaning more towards using the LSx for my Hybrid Z-32). My plan is NOT to touch the firewall. As such, I may looking into utilizing the GTO pan which is front sump. The cross member in the Z-32 is so far rearward and the rack is at the back of the cross member, which is the biggest headache in getting the engine in easily.

Me too. The 1UZ looks like a tidy package. Lighter than the VH45DE possibly? After becoming one dollar poorer from loosing a bet that the LM7, (GM iron Block 5.3, LSx derivative) from my wifes 01 Suburban was going to be lighter than the VH in identical trim, (the 5.3 ended up being almost identical in weight to the VH45DE, lost a dollar in that bet), I'm not about to make any claims either way. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246

Tony, I have concluded that you "are the" stick that stirs the pot. Still love ya anyway..

Those can't be used for anything in a shop. Nope, nothing at all. Wouldn't work for a rotisserie or a rolling table, or anything like that at all. Id be glad to help out by freeing up some your shop space by taking say oh, 4 of those off your hands, you know just helping out and all… In all seriousness if you decide to get rid of a pair or 4 of them, let me know. I am interested, if the price is right… Paul

Mm Hmmm... I lohck-it ah-laht...

Holy Shnikeys! 25lbs of boost on a VG33ET displacing 3.5 liters?!?! That should be upwards of 400+ WHP, which would be way cool! Thanks for the idea, but I'm wanting to start out with a little more displacement, at least 4.5L and I am pretty set on having an engine with a couple more cylinders. Then, if and when I decide to add boost down the road, a mere 8-12 lbs of boost will deliver in the neighborhood of 500HP.

Spent some time stripping the VH45DE down to just the engine, removed the alternator and its bracketry, A/C pump and its bracketry, P/S pump and its bracketry, the transmission and flex plate, starter. With Rons help, weighed it! Came in at exactly 500.6 lbs. Weighed an N/A VG30DE on the same scale in the same trim approx a year ago at 442.2 lbs, so the VH would add approx 50-60 lbs give or take. For a car that weighs in the 3500 lbs region, another 50-60 lbs wont be noticed with the additional torque. (Oh, and the VH45DE still weighed 30 lbs MORE than the similar equipped VG30DETT on the same scale, busting the myth of the VH being lighter than the VG30DETT...) GIGANTOR as removed from the Q-ship with everything still attached! All accy removed during the weighing. Then I weighed my LM7 (GM 5.3, LSx derivative), that I removed from my wifes '01 Suburban the week of Thanksgiving, in essentially the exact same trim as the VH was weighed with motor mounts, exhaust manifolds intake w/throttle body, fuel rail, injectors, etc. The iron block aluminum head GM 5.3 weighed in at 516.8 lbs. Removed the iron exhaust manifolds and it weighed in at 490.4. With tubular shorty headers should weigh within a couple pounds of the VH45DE at 500. The aluminum block LS engine should be approx 50 lbs lighter is my guess, putting the LSx at approx the same weight as the N/A VG30DE. Same as above minus IRON exhaust manifolds;

2001 GM Vortec 5.3 RPO LM7; IRON block, WET, with Intake & TB, fuel rail, injectors, all 8 coils, water pump, motor mounts, stock IRON exhaust manifolds. As removed from my wifes 01 Suburban. MINUS; Flywheel, A/C pump and bracketry, P/S pump and bracketry, Alternator and bracketry. Scale was zeroed with lifting chains for each weigh; 516.8 lbs. Same as above minus IRON exhaust manifolds; 490.4 lbs. Same as above minus motor mounts, coils, intake, (just the long block w/water pump and damper); 447.8 lbs.

Yes, that has been covered, and is one of the foundational givens for this project. When you get the time, read through this thread. Quite a bit of info to absorb, but a good read none the less. If we can talk FilmJay into building his Aurora V-8 with a single plane crank?....

’96 VH45DE, (Infiniti Q-45, non VVT version so no solenoids/actuators), WET, oil and approx half full coolant, with fluid filled engine mounts, exhaust manifolds with cats cut off at collector. Just pulled from my '96 Q-45 last night. MINUS; Flywheel, Starter, P/S pump AND bracketry, Alt AND bracketry, A/C pump and bracketry, VVT solenoids/actuators. Scale zeroed with lifting chains, Ron Tyler as witness. 500.6 lbs

Alrighty, lets put this one to bed once and for all shall we? MYTH BUSTED!!!!! VH45DE is approx. 30 lbs "heavier" than the VG30DETT, NOT 100 lbs lighter! I would’ve guessed the weight to be upwards of 550, pushing 600, by just looking at it sitting next my LM7 (GM 5.3), on the floor, which does weigh more than the VH45DE in similar trim. (will post those exact numbers in the definitive engine wight thread later tonight). It for sure is lighter than it looks. Both Engines weighed on the same exact scale, both had the lifting chains zeroed out prior to weighing, both were in similar trim. No starter, no alternator, no P/S pump, No flywheel or flex late. Both did have complete intake manifolds, and exhaust manifolds, (VH had the Cats cut off the exh Manifolds, VG30DETT had the Turbos on the manifolds). Both with oil and coolant, both with their fluid filled motor mounts. Here is where these two engine differed in parts; VG30DETT had p/s pump bracket, no water pump. VH45DE had no p/s bracket, but did have water pump. VG30DE was minus one coil and the timing belt. VH45DE has all its cols and its timing chains. VG30DETT = 469.8 lbs VH45DE = 500.6 lbs VG30DETT during the weighing, chains zeroed prior to weighing; VH45DE during weighing, SAME scale, chains zeroed prior to weighing; I say approx 30 lbs, give or take, so now we are looking at a 60lb+/- weight difference TT vs TT, the VH STILL being heavier! Though the VH still isn't as heavy as I would've guessed, especially for its size...

Its all good. Glad you found out before you spent the money.

Fixed...

Welcome to HybridZ. This is an excellent project. Been discussed a few times, not sure any have been started yet. Looking forward to reading your build as you progress. Very cool… Twist up the car… Now a big block Buick would be VERY cool. If you decide to do this swap, be sure to document. I don’t think has been done yet, though it should be done! From the experience of the of the other extreme radical Z cars here on this forum, you wont have issues with the big block Buick twisting the car, unless the driver makes an unexpected off course excursion wrapping it around a pole, tree, etc.

Ah, it’s a J-30 diff, NOT a Q-45! Thee is a BIG difference! Like comparing the R-180 to the R-200, not even close! The J-30 is mid size sedan powered by the VG30DE V-6. The Q-45 is a full size luxury sedan powered the VH45DE V-8! THE Q-45 R-200 is unique amongst the short nose R200’s and is coveted for its superior strength to the J-30, 240-SX and Z-32 R-200’s The short nose R-200’s (other than the Q-45), are prone to busting the output flanges. They are not as strong as the long nose R-200 output flanges or the Q-45 R-200 out put flanges. The Q-45 R-200 shares the same output flanges with R-230, which is why the Q-45 R-200 is so much more desired for high out put applications. This thread covers a little bit; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=131008 The stickies at the top of the drive train section is chocked full of info on the various Nissan diffs.

No, it's just the Q-45 R-200 only came in 3.54 ratio. For a Q-45 R-200 to have 3.90 ratio, it had to have the ring and pinion swapped out.

The Northstar is an attractive power-plant, for the exact reasons you mentioned in another thread, especially for a Single Plane V-8 Crank project. The tooling issues you mentioned elsewhere has me a bit concerned though. Would you PM me the details regarding the specialized tooling? We are approx 30 minutes east of Milwaukie. Let us know when you are up and we'd be glad to have you out. We love talking Z cars. Take care, Paul

Alright, yanked the VH45DE out of the Q-ship tonight. Cut off the upper and lower front core support of the car, unbolted the engine and trans crossmembers and removed the entire assy including steering rack, etc from the car out through the front using my tractor. Ron Tyler was present and helped in the final stages of the removal. Set the engine/trans on the shop floor, got down off the tractor, stood there at the shop door with Ron and we both had the same reaction as we stared at the VH45DE sitting on the floor! “OMG!” This thing is physically HUGE! It is wider than it is long and tall! The VH45DE has now been dubbed, "GIGANTOR"! Tomorrow I’ll take some pics with the LM7 5.3 next to it, and hope to weigh it, finally putting to rest the VH45DE vs VG30DE weight debate, (claims elsewhere on the internet of the VH45DE being upwards of 100 lbs lighter than the VG30DE)!