John Scott

Everyone who can add to list of potential improvements please do so. Especially those with experience running installing. This would be sooo cool to have a good fitting full length. The late camaro starter is only about 2 7/8 in diameter. Should help to get that side up a bit. JS

After reading Ed's feelings about stepped headers, I think I want to do more research. He's a little different, but may be right. I know I'll pick up low end torque using the 1 5/8, but at a substatial hp loss on the top end. I think his kits come with a huge assortment of bends, straight, flanges etc. Pretty pricey, too. If we can't generate enough interest, I'll probably buy the S&S, see what Loren, their engineer can do to make the installation easier w/o going to a whole new design, then modify as needed. Overall they seem to have a good placement in the Z. Primary lengths are already a little short to be ideal, but again some compromise may be in order. Worst case, I'll change out my springs tires and gain a couple inches that way. After two more days of reading, one thing for sure, I'm NOT going to put on 1 5/8 headers on a 6-7000 rpm 383 300 cfm head! JS JS

www.headersbyed.com/index.html here's a guy who has another opinion about compromises. In fact he's full of opinions, but maybe right in his approach. Into building the perfect set yourself? JS

Just got off the phone with SS tech concerning the full length 1 3/4 header. Seemed very helpful and willing to improve the design and fit. If your car is like mine with about 3" or so ground to oil pan clearance, then the SS headers will be nearly resting on the ground on the passenger side. Possible options are, as mentioned before, going to a 2 1/2 collector. This is better for flow anyway unless you are running dual 3". Turning collecters inward,and raising the passenger side to clear new small diamerter starters. Very interested in the possibility of building a tri-Y design, based on the existing #5205(?) Anyone confirm using that #?. Said it would move the passenger side up about 2". Very good torque band. Ideally we need a test mule he could ship to, try the modifications for fit, make adjustments, then build a jig for production. An order of 20 headers would make it worthwhile. I'm doubting we can generate that kind of interest, and since I don't yet have an engine sitting in my car am strarting to feel the whole header deal is nothing but a mojor pain in the @$$! Sounds like many of us are dealing with a compromise in performance, running a short tube 1 5/8 where a long tube 1 3/4 should go. Spent a lot of dough to get good flowing heads only to stop them up at the other. Makes me sick, but at this point I might just throw in the towel and do the same thing. JS

YEEEOOOOOW! Congrats. For a 2700 lb that'd be pushin 670+hp. What are you using for 1/2 shafts cvs or u-joints? JS

Rick, I'll give you a call this weekend. JS

Grump mentioned a while back, the torque curve from a hugger 1 5/8 to full length 1 3/4 would move upwards about 500 rpm and 250 rpm wider, no mention of hp differences. I guess I'm throwing in too many variables. From what I could gather, shorter tubes for high rpm motors, longer for low end. So much more to this, but looking for the best compromise. Anyone, ANYONE else using a different 1 3/4 besides S&S full lenghth? Fastfrog, as Rick Johnson suggested, maybe we need to see how much it would cost to have S&S build one to fit the Z chassis better. I would go for the 2.5 collectors, shorter overall by about 6" and somehow raise the passenger side where it should be. My starter is really small. JS

BLKMGK, Last I heard you returned the sanderson and were trying another brand. Sorry I couldn't find it in past posts, what headers did you end up with? Fit? JS

Please get a measurement, Rick. I still think shortening the header, would allow your tubing to make some bends before they got to the floor boards. Looking at Andrew's right side picture and put the end of the collector where the existing one starts. Maybe 6 inches shorter. Might help route the tubes down the tunnel easier. JS

Thanks Grumpy. Appreciate your suggestion. I had a bad experience, lately, with Midwest. Their tech help was extremely rude and didn't want to check their pan dimensions. I tried, but won't do business with them. Some of our applications are requiring a specific pan depth where 1/4 0r 1/2 inch makes a big difference. They wern't willing to share that info. I don't want to play trial and error with my engine parts. JS

Anyone else catch the March HOTROD test on the 383 crate motor?. Using the airgap RPM performer, the spacers, in their words, didn't do squat! In fact lost 25 lb-ft in one test. Usually good for an engine, in some cases not. High praise for the rpm air gap, which produce almost as much hp as the victor jr, but with much more low end torque. For those of you who didn't read the end result: Cam 230/36 544/555 110 lsa, manifold, head gasket, oil pan, Hedman 1.5-1 5/8 tork-step headers, rocker arm, carb, etc, and oil change netted 461 hp@5600, 502@ 4200tq, average tq 2500-4800 478!!! Average tq 4000-5700 475! Thats what I call a flat curve. JS

My catalog lists the Moroso 20190 @ 8". Otherwise it would be a great pan, I ordered my Kevko 8qt. Nice people! The right side kickout is only 3 1/8. Front of pan is 4 3/8. Rear, slightly over 7" Starter won't be an problem. I haven't gotten to the issues of which header I'm using, and how it will fit but this still might be a great option for those looking for high capacity oil pan with stock pan ground clearance. JS

With all the variables with headers, could you give some idea as to the power differences on a 383 running a 1 5/8 shorty, 1 3/4 shorty, and full length 1 3/4? What effect would changing the collector on the full length from 3 to 2 1/2, for floor clearance, have on the engine? I assume few will ever run a dual 3" system anyway. JS

Rick, never thought of making the collector 2 1/2. Right side lower?? Do you run a stock pan? How low in reference to your pan does it hang? Been studying Andrews pictures. Why not have SS make the header a few inches shorter so the collector ends up well in front of the floor pan. A coulple of inches shouldn't change the overall characteristic of the header. Yes, please someone measure the width between the l/r headers at the oil sump location. JS

Just received e-mail from AndrewB. SS Full length clear steering, frame, but hit front of floor at collector. Sounds like we're getting close to my slave cylinder. Who is using a 1 3/4 block hugger? JS

5 qt. pan is not for me. Good windage, scraper, baffling can go a long way, but 7000rpm potential and too many $$ invested. 7-7.5" sump is as low as I can go. This will give about 3" of ground clearance in my Z. Builder really wants 7 quart minumum. I've tried Milodon, Moroso, MWM, Stephs, Champ, Hamburger, ect, ect. Milodon drag pan 31145 is 7.5 rear, 6" front. With stepped front, will probably fit the Z nicely, really expensive. So far Kevko is the most hopeful. JS

After crawling under Robs ZZ4 and taking a few measurements, I decided I don't need another nightmare of fitting exhaust around a road race pan. Found three more good possibilities this morning, all 7 qt+ with 7-7.5 depth. #s 1086, 1087, 1090. I'm leaning towards the 1090 8qt. Waiting for front pan dimensions. Pan bottom is only 11 inches wide. Really reasonable prices, too. www.kevko.net/page3.html

Could it be? The chosen one comes forth for full length 1 3/4 headers on a standard trans? A little more info. please. What size collector. How low below oil pan rail do they hang. Could you confirm part#. Not listed on SS site. Also do they hug the oil pan. Any chance for a width between left and right sides? Thanks. You might have solved one headache. Hmmm, I wonder if it will work with this cool 7" road race pan sitting in the back of my truck, It has a pretty wide kick out. JS

Anyone know of a source for custom hats? JS

Some header manufacturers make headers for angle plugs. The most common header for the Z swap, block hugger hookers, offer more room with the straight plug. Might depend on head type, too. JS

Looked into the pans mentioned by Grumpyvette. Midwest tech help is lame, insolent, unwilling to give information. E-mail recommended phone call. Said he didn't have time to measure his oil pan. Said point blank he wasn't interested in making a sale. Wouldn't recommend. JS

Bowers Racing Engines: 970 226-6040 He's hard to reach on the phone so keep trying. Little chance during racing season. JS

So what carburetor is best if your willing to tune your carb for max performance? Any of the Holley or Holley clones better than others? JS

As far as the Z is concerned the straight plug heads usually offer more clearance to your headers than angle. JS

If anyone makes these or any 1 3/4 work with the T56 please post it. JS