Daeron
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Posts posted by Daeron
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well then i guess that begs the question, how much detonation resistance is evident with higher rod stroke ratios and is it in fact significant enough to build a street engine towards this goal?
Unfortunately, that is where it breaks down. To the best of my knowledge, detonation resistance is not a quantifiable characteristic (I am sure it is quantifiable in some means, but not for comparison/planning purposes) but the general consensus seems to be that the displacement is worth it.
If you REALLY wanted to maximize this idea, you would want to grab an L20A crank (Japanese and Aus market 2.0 liter L6) crank, LD28 rods, and 240SX pistons (maybe custom pistons very close to the KA in deck height, i forget) and bore your N42 out to 89mm. R/S ratio around 2.0:1, high potential redline engine, compression can be whatever you want.. flat tops kissing a closed-chamber head, I wanna guess around 10.5:1 or maybe 11. The thing is, THIS motor is going to be a picky picky picky picky bi-atch. It will take LOTS of time on a good dyno to tune it in properly to eke every bit of power out of it, it will need to be geared to whatever track you are running on (because this is a race motor I am proposing here, and a durned specific, oddball at that.. this is all a hypothetical to take your idea to its fullest extent. I have been where you are.) AND it would need to be governed by a pretty good standalone ECU if you wanted any reliable longevity. (In other words, without strict engine control, this engine may easily blow its top as frequently as an old Jag...)
Here. http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/ Have fun. Most of the info is accurate, but don't go spending $3-5K on parts and put them together assuming they fit because the website said so. (Thats my standard disclaimer when distributing engine builder programs like this.)
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I saw one of these advertised in my local Auto Trader about ten years ago where the chassis had been split at the firewall, and the front end tilted forwards and the cab and rear tilted backwards. Not sure if the chassis was at all complete on the underside or what the deal was, but it was WILD.... and MUUUUCH taller than this little old thing.
I'm not an off-roader, but if you're gonna drop an American V8 into the thing.... then how can you fault doing THAT?!? Even to one who prefers a civilized road course, muddins' FUN!!!! That car just screams YEEEHAW, whether you are a fan of yee-haw or not. Can you imagine the mud drifting???
Besides, I can counter with this... This is a Subaru XT-6 with a soobie d/r 4wd gearbox, nissan transfer case and some custom frame work:
more here.
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Your anger is obvious, Padawan, and it will net you much danger in the journeys that lie ahead.
(something tells me it wasn't a crack pipe)
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SR20, VG30 and VQ series apparently share the 22mm wrist pin, but nissan motors apparently seem to use crank diameters of 51 or 53 mm. I'm basing these conclusions TOTALLY on the info provided at the ozdat calculator I linked to earlier in this thread.
Incidentally, I missed the 22mm wrist pin on the VG earlier when I had suggested it be paired with an L24 rod; L-series use 21mm wrist pins.
There seems to be a VG30DETT piston at 31.75mm pin height and 89mm bore. If you can find a rod that is just a hair under 141mm long you get to zero deck height with the 94mm stroke crank. (assuming this head has a ~42cc combustion chamber and flat-top piston, this produces 3.5 liters at THIRTEEN TO ONE COMPRESSION!!!! HOOOOHOOOOO!!!)
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No. The Mercedes Benz 280 Rods. They're 150mm (5.906in) long and a Honda K24 90mm overbore pistons with a compression height of 1.14in.
I may still stroke it, it all depends on the cost of each motor.
okay, sooo... block height? rod big end bore/wrist pin bore/crank journal thickness? We can only Help Hybridize if you give us specs
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If you need factory service manuals, check out http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html.
Not sure what happened to that original thread...
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Yes, it's equally overbuilt, also equally forged, induction hardened at the journals and micro polished. I believe it's about an 84mm stroke. So about 8mm less.
Edit: With the 320 crank, the 280 rods, and 90mm K24 pistons, I will have a calculated CR of 8.8:1 (give or take .2), a 1.78 Rod/stroke ratio, and 3206cc's of displacement. I could spin the motor 8928rpms without hitting the 25m/s mean piston speed.
May just stash the crank away for a heavier car that needs some stroke to motivate it
You say "280 rod.." is that 280Z or MB 280??
Going on a rough swag here.. the stroke difference is about 8 mm, if you mean to say that the short stroke, L28 rod, KA24 piston combo will do you OK for piston height, then maybe the stroker crank, an L24 rod (133mm) and a VG30 piston (pin height about 31.75mm) put you near the same height for the reciprocating assemblies.
According to this utility http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/ there is a "JUN VG30DETT" piston that checks in at 89mm diameter.
Stro-Ker! Stro-Ker! Stro-Ker!
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I don't think people were noticing without a link or the pics popping up right in their face.
Support for that theory!!!!
My reaction to seeing these four pics was "Holy freakin CRAP his engine bay is gonna be nice!!"
But this neck on the left needs some more cleaning to be up to par, man!
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mmmm... gussets
This comment about sums up the whole car. License plate maybe? GussetZ?
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This crank is massive :
Methinks thou might grindeth some rotating mass off from the outer edge of those crank journals..
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There ya go, Thats the pantera style hatch.
..in all its craptastic glory. Can you believe they actually put these things on cars like the CRX?
And then there is the opposite, the Nissan NX2000 with its hatchback option...
When you look outside the box, there is ALOT of room to go crazy with a hatchback. In fact, thats reason number 2349579239729 on my "List of why the Z-car pwns!!!11!!!"
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My old man found a rebuild kit for a good price on Ebay recently. In talking back and forth about it, my brother is saying that somewhere on Ztherapy's website they used to outline which rebuild kits were worthy, and which ones were crap. I vaguely recall seeing the page I am sure he is talking about, but we couldn't find it on Ztherapy.com.
My old man really just needs the dome gaskets for his carbs, so a $120-180 rebuild and re-bush kit from Ztherapy is a little over the top. (These SUs are a short term, pre-turbo induction for this car.) At the same time, he doesn't want to put crappy parts in, so we are at a quandary.
Anyone else remember a website saying "ONLY get OEM (or maybe this and that brand) but DONT GET THESE AND THOSE BRANDS carb rebuild kits, they're junk!!!" anywhere? There was one that my bro and I dboth dimly recall and had each attributed to Ztherapy, so it must have at least *seemed* authoritative.. Barring that, would anyone recommend AGAINST buying a "Keyster" brand (not lying) rebuild kit? Again, the carbs are NOT falling apart, they just need abit of refresh.
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And for Daeron (sorry for the double post), The engine is shorter than the L series length wise (don't ask me how), has a 20mm taller deck height (same as the diesel) but is less than 20mm taller than the L series (also, have no Idea how this is with the head installed though) and about 30lbs lighter. The engine is front sump (much like a bimmer) but as short as it is, I should only have to lightly notch the front x-member to make it fit while the engine leans over and I will probably do and engine cradle similar to the SBF guys.
I wish I would have taken a picture of the engine from the side, it's really interesting how much the engine is engineered, all the ribbing is cast into the exterior of the block and there really is as much material removed as MB deemed possible.
Hrmmmmmmm...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
What about leaning her over on her side???
Getting that hot, hot exhaust down under where airflow can be directed around it then out the sides, leave you open for acres and acres of intake tract....
I am wondering what a Datsun with a slanted M-B engine might be "Eaton" for lunch............
240 ZLK!!!!
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Do you use distilled water to add to the coolant?
Rusted out impellers are nefarious gremlins to track down..
Can you feel any surge of pressure in the radiator hoses when you rev the engine, while it is hot? Are there any clues to objectively reassure you that you have abundant water flow? I hate to point you towards this, but other than a possible lack of positive fresh airflow over the radiator, the water pump seems to be the likely culprit.
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We all know that Mercedes copied the L28.
*Audible*groan*
What does this engine look like in profile, from front-to-back? I am curious about its looks compared to the L-gata, sump-wise.... What is it going to take to hang it where it needs to hang in the engine bay, and for that matter, where in the engine bay will it sit compared to the L-gata?
Those are just the first couple of questions that haven't been answered yet. I love ALL I6 engines, and there is almost nothing I like seeing more than an I6 swap into a Z. A DOHC, 3.5-4L super-cool european race motor?!? YEAH!!!!
(i am a teensy bit excited about this. forgive me)
I suppose I could have simply said, "Subscribed!"
BTW I love this picture.. the blurry dude with hammer in hand in the background is an awesome touch
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The twin-cam VG30 can make 6, 7, 8, 900, 1000 horsepower. If you can build it to that.
It may be easier to make that kind of power with your LSx, but it is NOT going to be very easy to put the V8 into the Z32.. nowhere near as easy as it is in the S30. The Z32 is also a very daunting vehicle to work on.
But it IS so very super d@^^n cool... and that is a good price. The wing and the airdam are just a hair too fancy for my tastes, but she's a fine looking car for the money, to say the very least.
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This totally sucks for you. I've used many a can of Fix a Flat in my day, but I have long since sworn them off if at all possible. I am in the "plug kit and 12V pump in car at all times" camp.. BUT... this brings up an important point.
Best reason to get a 76 or earlier: Full Size Spare FTW.
On another note, I think that a windows from a 76 will NOT fit your 77, because the doors were revised in 77. I know the door redesign was carried into the 77-8 2+2s, and I would imagine that the window glass is different, but I can't say for certain. Try looking it up on MSA or BlackDragon/Victoria British website. If they list different parts for the year range, then yer boned.
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There's always the pantera-styled, vertical rear window and a horizontal trunklid. You could just get the trunk cut out of a roadster and do it that way, but you may as well chop your roof off and go Full Roadster. THAT is a project I have always wanted to do... get some fiberglass fenders and hood for a roadster, cut them up, expand them a bit as needed, and then cut your Z up to make it into a Fairlady Roadster.
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Those wheels in 15" would look GREAT on a Z, and they have many times before. My uncle has a set similar to that (his are ARs with exposed lugs and center caps, but the same gold webbing/alloy rim pattern) and for a red, orange, or white Z they are just awesome.
The new style is to go for 16, 17 inch wheels, but for years 13 and 14 was the norm. 215-60R14 tires were your standard sports car tire for decades, but in recent years tire manfuacturers have stopped making performance tires in many 13, 14, and now even 15 and 16 inch sizes because they can get more money from larger diameter tires with lower and lower profiles.
Basically, because the rends of "what was cool looking" shifted into wheels of higher diameter and tires of lower sidewall profile, we are being bilked out of our old options. Sidewall height versus flex can be argued, but I still can't see wheels larger than 16" on a Z, and 15 is really the biggest size that is "right" to me.
As far as value... I see lots and lots of sets of wheels that are more fashionable NOT sell on craigslist for less than you are asking, but tires alone can make or break that price. Personally, I like the rims alot but I am not in the market, and that price would be too high even if I were.
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A few things that come to mind.
1)Adding an IC is one more thing for your fan to pull air through before cooling the rad.
2)Fan clutches get weak and they look like they are still working
If you can at all, feel for spots in your radiator coils that are less hot than others. One of those non-contact thermometers from Harbor Freight is great for this sort of thing. I am wondering about a partially obstructed radiator coil.
To check your fan clutch, you need to first try to rotate the fan blade by hand when the engine is cool. It should rotate freely enough.. NOT rotating freely while cool with the engine off is not a significant problem (at least, it wouldn't contribute to overheating.) Then, make sure the fan blade at least looks like it is spinning when the engine is hot and running. Finally, and most importantly, shut the engine off with it good and hot, and see if you can spin the fan blade freely NOW. at this point, the fan clutch should be holding the blade firmly to the water pump hub, which should be held pretty much immobile by the belt around the crankshaft pulley.
The fan clutch lets go of the blade when cool, and grabs it when hot. Even if it LOOKS like it is spinning when hot, if you can rotate it freely it is bad and bneeds to be replaced. The work involved in moving air over your radiator is still work; it requires force, which is a drag, which means any slippage WILL decrease the amount of work done ie, how much air the fan actually moves.
If that is all a little condescending, I apologize, but I prefer to spell it all out rather than spit out a short version that might leave questions unanswered.
Other thoughts: water pump impellers are not all created equal.
A final CR estimate was never given; the original post in this thread almost implied that the original NA engine was refreshed with a turbo block but never specified pistons, and then a shaved P90 was mentioned but we are unsure whether that was coming, staying, or going. In short, I was wondering what pistons you had (probably turbo dish pistons, right?) and whether you are running an uncut P90 or if you have the shaved one on? (.080"?) I bring this up because a shaved P90, even with dished pistons, should bring CR up to around 8.5:1. Mid eights is certainly a realm where others have gotten savage detonation in the past, so it could be a situation where you need to tweak your tune. So it is worth clearing up the ambiguity.
Good luck!
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Derek: I am about 99.99% positive my brother wants one of these yesterday. If you could take this post as a reservation, pending confirmation later today, that would be awesome
I would bet he wants the whole kit and kaboodle, but not as certain on that. -
There is a sticky at the top of this subforum titled Turn Signal/Hazard system or something along those lines. Read that thread through, it is a helpful read to anyone with an S30. i can't recall how deeply into specifics on the 280 system the thread got, but they were similar in design.
If you do not already have it, google xenons30.com and find your model year's FSM; t6hat can only be of assistance to you.
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I'll donate $75.00 towards the purchase price if it can be delivered to a certain individual in Sandy, Oregon and parked in his driveway.
Mike
You DO realize that you could only juuuuust barely draw a longer road course across the continental united states than the path you suggest, right???
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=miami,+florida+to+sandy,+oregon&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=4
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Newbie here with a recently purchased 71 240Z. Already has 280ZXT drivetrain on propane, runs about 14psi
Propane Turbo Z FTMFW!!!!!!
I would bet he wants the whole kit and kaboodle, but not as certain on that.
ka24de piston question
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
Before 1_fast_Z condescended, he said five important words. "CC them and mic them."
If you had focused more on the advice, than on your own ego, you wouldn't have noticed his ego. His ego is a little large, but he is an OUTSTANDING guy, and a very valuable member of this site. Most importantly for you: he was right. He made a point I just spelled out in another thread titled something like "detonation resistance from rod/stroke?"
Here, play around with this, but as was pointed out above, don't take any of these figures for holy writ when it comes time to put the pieces together. Measure each and every single one of your own parts, ensure all clearances and tolerances are as they should be. http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/
You might want to look into spending about $100 on a few books. The titles of those books I always confuse, because they are mixtures of how to rebuild, how to hotrod and race, and how to restore your datsun, Datsun OHC engine, and then more specifically the L-6. The titles are recommended at virtually every turn and any search will turn them up.
Just as a parting reminder: your questions have been asked many many times before. I hate to be a search-nazi, but a little bit thicker a skin is pretty much necessary here, because the VAST majority of these guys know alot more than you, or even me. It isn't always easy to approach this place with enough humility; my dad has owned 240Zs since they came out (i've only been into them since 1980) but he cannot stand this forum because he can't admit when he is wrong about something Z-related.