Daeron
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Posts posted by Daeron
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These are the things that you do to tweak the stock EFI system; this methodology was worked out from 1975 until about 1995-2000 when market technology became cheap enough for us mere mortals to start buying and installing aftermarket EMSs on our turbo cars, and the turbo Z world really spooled up...
Its things like this (the fact that the only way to upgrade is through "bandaids") that people say "You can't really upgrade the stock system, just carb it" and that was the ONLY solution for a 280Z/X for many years. Seriously; until about 98-99, if you got a 280Z or ZX and it wasn't in super great mechanical shape, ditching the EFI and throwing some SUs on was step A-1.
Regardless of whether or not its "the right" way to build it, it WILL work. Throw a potentiometer into the CTS circuit for an on-the-fly enrichment option! Advance the AFM flap a notch or two (or retard it, who cares?) Find a Cressida AFM and swap the Datsun AFM guts in while you are at it! This is modifying in hardware. It just takes grade 8 "lugnuts" (or, from a different point of view, the ability to cope when things break down)
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The T5 that went into the 83 turbo 280ZX wasn't your everyday world-class BW T5.. I think the entire case was different, but I am not positive. I do NOT think that using the bellhousing on another T5 variant is a simple option, because I am fairly certain if it were, it would be much more well documented. I can't give you anything more positive (sorry, this is all "i thinks" and "probablys") because I am not very familiar with the BW gearboxes (more an old-skool Datsun purist than an American Iron guy TBH)
Never underestimate what you can do in an early S30 with an L28, electronic ignition, well-built SUs with the right needles, the right cam, and a set of 3.90 rear gears. The 260 came with 3.36 rear end gears if its a 5 speed; upgrading to, say, a Subaru R180 3.90 LSD with custom CV axles would be a GREAT way to beef up the rear, give you better traction and control over your drive wheels, AND lower your gear ratio to something more typically "japanese compact" in one fell swoop.
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Cool to see the model getting the street cred (I think) it deserves!
Next episode.. a supercharged LT1 89 lamborghini?!?
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Pull the valve cover and inspect all your cam lobes and rocker arms for any evidence of untoward wear. In recent years there have been instances of people chewing up cam lobes and/or rocker arms for no apparent reason; the popular theory for the cause is a lack of a Zinc compound in out motor oil (zdp) which is apparently incredibly helpful at maintaining the thin boundary layer of oil between lobe and rocker surface, and most supporters of this theory throw the term "poor metallurgy" out in the same breath, regarding the camshaft. There are a couple of threads that have gone on on this subject; I cannot recall who had the problems.
Do you know the Screwdriver Stethoscope trick? One large screwdriver, butt the handle into your ear, and touch the tip to various points on the engine. It helps localize the type of noise you are talking about. When I do it, I sometimes go an extra hitch up and I VERY CAREFULLY push with the screwdriver handle until it sorta pinches down the ear canal, and I get a more solid transfer through into my eardrum... but obviously, on a running motor, you risk boxing the s#$% out of your ear.
Good luck tracking down your problem! I would definitely try to pinpoint the noise a little better before changing the timing gear out.
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I would say, save yourself some worry, and spend a *little* bit of the cost of having a machine shop doing everything on a few tools (engine stand hoist, etc harbor freight FTW) and tear this engine down, inspect as advised above, and re assemble it all yourself. If the compression calculation earlier (8.7:1?) is close to right, 18psi seems alot of boost to be running with 91 octane max.
I tried to look over what you said the specs for the engine were.. 144 mm rods, 280 stroke, zero deck height add up to ~25mm pin height??? thats a TIGHT PACK unless something else is amiss, but the compression plus the boost on the octane might be a tad much....
The standard wisdom with a high quench design head like the P90 is to have the flat top of the piston coming i *believe* ~.0022 inch from the quench pad of the head (1 fast z/Brian is the person who I quote on that subject, I don't have the link handy) IF you need to dish the piston out a little to lower the compression a smidgin, then you would want to grind a peanut/trapezoidal type shaped dish into the face of a piston that will push close enough to the head in your bottom end when assembled. This little depression should mirror the combustion chamber in the head in all ways possible/practical. (It won't be nearly as large in volume or in outer "circumference") This will give you a nice even rounded-flatttish pancaked chamber for all that air/fuel to get squished into from the quench-pad area at the last moment, which should be the best shape you can get for your chamber. Obviously, pistons with sufficient meat are required to machine this depression into.
The EXTREMELY close approach of the piston crown to the quench pad is critical; the number used should be researched and decided based on more than just my posting here.
This is honestly just a tad beyond my ken, but I can kind of see where you need to go (I think) and dropping the compression, achieving proper clearance (WHICH your builders may well have already done) and giving those pistons that little scallop should be the magic bullet that dips your compression while increasing your engines tolerance for high compression, nipping your bud on both ends.
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ohmygod I almost dropped my tool.....
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have I given you the schpiel about twice pipes yet? Its all about pipe sizing (the MSA kit is equivalent to about a single 3" pipe IIRC, so adequate for moderate goals, it would probably hold you back from 400 but 300 oughta be doable.)
As long as the exhaust pulses share a common collector (heh, turbo) there is no "inherent problem" with what we now call twice pipes for any motor. Unless I am *SADLY* mistaken, "twice pipes" back in the day specifically meant half the cylinders to each pipe, all the way back.. like side pipes, or whatever. Anymore, any setup marketed as "twice pipes" typically starts in one single pipe (collector) just like the MSA kit. So, thats the short version.. the short, SHORT version is, get a downpipe, attach it to the collector at the head of your twice pipes sytem, and don't worry about the exhaust again until
A: it breaks or
B: it is holding you back from 400 horsepower.
I could give you the longer, more detailed version, with the math, and the pi, and the linear resistance to flow and whatnot, if you would like.. just ask and I will dig some of my previous posts up by search.
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the motor in your car is not THAT high compression.
Get her running. Get your megasquirt and associated bits, and when that is together and running on the car, then throw the turbo hardware on and retune. slowly disassemble and re build your turbo block and head while tuning and playing with intercoolers and stuff, and when the time is right (read: when the original motor blows) drop in your turbo block. Then, all you need is big injectors and a big turbo and you are instantly at 400 horse.
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I'm thinkin giant fiberglass tub with fittings to hook a pump to circulate the sodium bicarbonate/water solution, hooked up directly to a 220v, then another tub right next to that, same size, containing an acid to remove all the black leftover stuff.
I think with the liquid in motion it would take a lot less time. I also know that I will probably never do this, but it's fun to think about.
How much do you think you could charge for someone to dip their car, though? if it WORKS, something like that could potentially pay for itself. at least, you can rationalize it that way
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I'm sure Daeron didn't mean anything by posting APOLLO 13!!!!?!?!
Phar
Well, it was something of a comparison between our Horny Hero and the methodical, precise, determined work done by the men to get those guys BACK that I had in mind.. plus, Gene Kranz is pretty much my default "mission control" guy in my head.
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Does that price include intake/injectors/exhaust manifold/turbo??
L28ET can easily get you to 300-350 horses without going inside the motor at all. Best way is to look into building a megasquirt system, (you can buy them assembled or solder it yourself and save some cash) get a good T3/T4 hybrid turbocharger, a good intercooler, proper exhaust and the right injectors and you are pretty much there. If you have stock electronics, its easy to put on a good intercooler, throw on a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, get the upgraded turbo and maybe some injectors (tuning with stock electronics is a very subtle art of fooling an antiquated computer and its programming; the computer has to think everything is stock, and you are limited to a fuel delivery pattern that parallels stock) and you get upwards of 200 rather rapidly. Once you get there its time to do some suspension, braking, and tire upgrades anyhow.
I used to live in North Wilkesboro
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.....driving in the dark with no headlights is scary!!
Afraid of the boogeyman? I call that "stealth mode."
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Many thanks for the Vizard article!! I think I have heard this referenced but I have yet to find it. It is well worth jumping through the hoops to register to download it!!
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Lets not forget that 3.545 was also stock rear end ratio for the 280Z originally, I am not 100% certain how broad the application is but I know my 75 has one. I realize that the engine and transmission are TOTALLY different from stock S30 (duh) but still, my point is that a 3.545 isn't some crazy tall diff ratio for a Z-car.
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Good luck, and Godspeed!!!
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He is right; virtually all of the comments made to the effect that "triples are over-doing it" are only intended in the sense that, you do not NEED to go to triple to reach your power goals. Modest power goals can be well tuned in with modestly sized mikuni/webers and run at least as well as SUs; however, the tuning complications of matching six carburetors are still there.
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I saved alot of those pictures on my hard drive and have been looking at them wondering where the head went, but wasn't going to say anything. Awesome to see the computer modeling you've done, as usual.
Your head looks rather alot like one posted elsewhere; tomorrow when I have a moment I will search for the thread and show you the pictures I mean. I like the look of the chambers you mocked up, and have for some time now. Can't wait to see it all added together. Some Sum!!
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One BIG issue I see in that last video though.. only half of the chambers are swirling in a "z" shape. The other half are swirling in an "S" shape. It isn't an S, its a Z. if you don't have them all balanced, this motor is sure to eat muffler bearings for lunch.
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JM hit the nail on the head: stick with SUs, build a mild/hot head, and stick with your own gut on putting the rest of the budget towards suspension. It is hard to disagree with someone dead set on going triples... but SUs are almost always enough, at least as a beginning. The SUs can be replaced once everything ELSE is done, and be a final power bonus.
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What did you do to pre-lube the assembly before your initial start-up?
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check for a hanging or improperly installed brake pad
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No......not wrong.......I've rebuilt both because I worked at a nissan/subaru dealership and specialized in tranny rebuilds.
The tranny is a 4EAT which also went into certain mazdas and fords.
Regardless of the case and application, the transmission assembly is the same is still called a 4EAT.
..which means, with a bellhousing swap I probably could've used an auto Z gearbox to convert my FWD GL-10 to RWD when the trans crapped out on me last november. O well, it was sold to someone for parts, at least it didn't get crushinated.
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pm sent regarding 4-bbl and intake, I might have something for ya...
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Cool. I'm not sure where you got that picture but here's the detail. The car is a 1978 280Z that was my friend Oz's first attempt at a land speed record. The picture was taken in 1979. The car had a turbocharged L28 and eventually went 188mph for the record at the time. The car was retired and sold to a guy in California. Unfortunately it was in a garage during a major earthquake and suffered fatal damage from falling shelves and engine parts.
Live by the parts hoard... die by the parts hoard... RIP
Copying MONSTER's Plenum Design
in Fuel Delivery
Posted
Welcome to HybridZ! Nice looking design, have you noticed this thread? http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=143460
They are taking a very differeent approach, and it is for a DETT, but the basic thought is the same: pull an audi-style airbox off for your inlet manifold.