Daeron
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Posts posted by Daeron
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http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=120785
that didnt even require the use of the search function, it was about ten or twelve posts down.
Not to be rude, but searching DOES yield results. Read that thread, and find the Fuel Injection Bible on this page..Z Tech Tips EFI & Fuel (AtlanticZ.ca) || | | | | | | |
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I figure in the long run I WILL want to turbo this car; so the idea of dumping money into a manifold setup for my NA motor, to me, is identical to "dumping money" into a MS setup for my NA motor. To turbo it in the future, i can just replace it with an uncut P90 or dished pistons, or whatever..
This is where I might disagree with you. If you're looking for 'exceptional' performance with a boosted motor then I believe that a proper intake manifold is just as important turbo as it is NA.
My intent was not to downplay the importance of the intake manifold on the turbo setups; it merely appeared to me (when the post was originally made, I have seen details I overlooked at this point) that there wasn't enough attention being paid to the manifolds on most NA setups.
My comments on "dumping money" into ANYthing was an attempt to make it clear that my plans are to START with the manifold and MS setup, and open things up from there. (head job with a decked P90, injectors, flattop block, and ultimately probably turbo(s) and any accompanying RE modifications)
Any and all feedback is appreciated
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I figured there was a good reason.. above and beyond the extra work it would take as opposed to installing the complete f54/p90 longblock.
Sounds like you're probably going to be in decent shape as it is anyhow. Good luck with the swap.
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Oh, yah, to be certain.....
The only reason I mentioned it was because MY post was asking if people had tried a good, wide open manifold as a primary concern of building an NA Z. I had assumed that most of the work I had seen on these ITB setups, and more classical type manifolds with larger diameter runners, was being done to be built into a Turbo motor.
Its just easy to miss the NA projects that happen here because so many people seem to be universally of the opinion that "turbo is the easiest way to speed" (myself included, honestly.. but easiest isnt necessarily "best," right?)
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Nope, these are N/A. 1 fast Z’s very impressive high 12 second street driven 280 Z and the build ups I quoted are all N/A! Not Turbo.
Honestly it was RonTylers scratchbuilt intake manifold thread that had stimulated that question, becaus eI had already read through it and had assumed it was for a turbo setup while doing so in the past. I am re reading that thread as we speak
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(i cant believe I am the first to mention this) Why not slap your E88 onto the F54 block??????
THAT would be alot more FUN......
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AWESOME, thanks a bunch, BRAAP.. will pore over those threads and keep sponging up knowledge.
You people kick ass.
Am I just jumping the gun in assuming all of these incredible builds are turbo setups?
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Thanks, it just seemed like all the people focusing on the intake manifold have already taken the turbo plunge as well.... 1 fast z, I was reading the thread from when you got that engine into the car, and there were posts about speed.. but never a dyno post in that thread. do you have a dyno sheet on that motor?
regarding the LD manifold, heh, NOT now. Broke, and out of work right now in fact (which is one reason I have so much time to kill reading about my Z on the internet) BUT thank you for letting me know you have "a few."
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stab in the dark, but I believe the ECU should be getting signal that you are cranking, and the injecotrs might not fire without that signal....
go to carfiche.com and find an FSM for your ZX if they have it, and if you dont already.
EDIT
I just read that thread over on the HAMB forum.. WHAT a JOKE!!! if you ask me, I couldnt think of a BETTER motor to use for a hot rod, andd THAT has been my first thought throughout reading about your entire project!! small, lightweight, powerful (power potential? you could link these guys to the thread here listing all the IMSA GTP engine parts for sale)
Those guys, even the ones being nice and saying "awesome work but not my first choice for a power plant" REALLY need to get rid of the Ostrich Syndrome and realize that there are more motors out there than just old fashioned american iron!!! you ask me, all of THEIR motors are antiquated piles of junk, and they should be leaving them behind as such!! they whined about tradition, the hot rodder's "tradition" was to go with the latest and greatest they got their hands on. To ME, more power out of a lighter weight, smaller engine is better, regardless of who the manufacturer is....
ugh...
END EDIT
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No Read my post again. FOUR 17-4 PH tie bolts go the length of the head that pass through 4 hollow dowells on each third to hold it in the latteral direction.
Beg pardon, I wasn't entirely clear.. thats what I meant by this...
the bolts would hold it from any possible lateral force,
"the bolts" being the lateral bolts, not the head bolts...
Cool, I just wanted to make sure I grokked your final solution. That was about what I had figured you were gonna be left with.
In the end, it seems absurdly simple.. more so than *I* ever thought it would actually be, anyhow. I just CANT GET OVER the fact that you've actually DONE this!!
thanks for the reply
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I have been in "lurk-mode" on my Z car for over two years now.. more like six or seven if you count the time I spent driving it stock and not doing anything to mod it.
I have been patient, because I know how much I do NOT know. My dad and uncle have been driving "perfromance" Zs for 30 years and are well indoctrinated in the "standard" NA, carb'ed Z-car schools of thought.. so I have been trying my best not to learn TOO much from them, since alot of it is obsolete knowledge nowadays... trying to avoid picking up bad habits ("yah, sure, that airbox and exhaust oughta be good for another 30-40 horses!!" type stuff)
I have a bone stock 75 280Z.
Anyhow, for NOW at least I am not really anticipating a turbo setup. 200 WHP would tickle me pink; I currently have modest goals.
My thoughts on building an engine are flattop pistons, stock conronds and crank, and a p90 head shaved 0.080" with the longer valves installed. I have spent alot of time reading and reading about camshafts, and I am aware that the camshaft is going to be key to this motor.
My question is basically this:
Has anyone ever spent a decent amount of effort and time, putting together an NA motor, FI, standalone engine management, and given themselves a good intake manifold?
I honestly believe that I may have a good chance at getting beyond the 170-200 HP bottleneck of the NA motor, by doing something along the lines of a dual stock TB setup on some SU manifolds, or something of that nature. the "su manifold" idea is one that came up last night, and I haven't even looked at the manifold to know if the TB would even come CLOSE to fitting, but I should be able to get a flange welded on if I need to. For the purposes of this post, lets assume the term "SU Manifold" simply means a good manifold for one TB to 3 cylinders.
I am basically curious if anyone has done an L28E, NON turbo and removed the bottleneck of the stock 30mm intake port runners...
I know I can build a head that will flow well, I know I can find a cam that will flow well, and I know I can make the fuel system flow well.. I am trying to find a "budget" method of getting the air into the motor better than with my stock intake manifold.
I figure in the long run I WILL want to turbo this car; so the idea of dumping money into a manifold setup for my NA motor, to me, is identical to "dumping money" into a MS setup for my NA motor. To turbo it in the future, i can just replace it with an uncut P90 or dished pistons, or whatever..
*I* just am beginning to think that the stock intake manifold has ALOT to do with all the people saying "if you want more than 200whp, just go turbo"
Has anyone proven me wrong already? Has the NA setup been tried with a good intake manifold?
I would LOVE to get an LD28 manifold, that would be IDEAL, but I do NOT have on already, and I DO already have all the other parts that would be needed to set up what I've described here... hence the low cost, I would hardly need to buy anything, just mod parts I already have..
Thanks for reading the long post, I am trynig to educate myself and just needed to ask a couple of ?s....
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Those are old pics in that thread, non of that holding/clamping mechanisim is going to be in the build. There are 4 long tie bolts going the length head, which is 17-4 PH stainless, for a high yeild strength. They are doweled together using hollow dowels, in ears that come off the thirds of the head. Ill post pics this weekend, of how it works. As for a tranny, I am going to be using a Z32 tranny, but IM going to see if I can get the ZXT T5 tranny to hold as long as I can. That weld is the finished product. Ive welded a "few" intakes, and never had a problem, so For now no grinding. NO time for that, LOL.
but you basically are counting on the head(s) being bolted down to hold it all together, as much as everything else? the bolts would hold it from any possible lateral force, which would be minimal, the dowelz hold it straight, and the headbolts (as always) hold it down? And you simply put gaskets between the head sections?
I *really* like the look of this engine. You also said your camshafts were a secret.. are you being secretive just about the grind, or the vehicle from which your camshafts were sourced? as of the most recent info I had read, I thought I heard something like a standard RB cam would fit the saddles...??
Sorry to rehash it all, but threads on this subject are many and its difficult to find the "definitive" answer any way other than asking directly.
Beyond that, just simply.. wow...
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I love this picture... and chance we could con you into setting the valve cover on top of that head, so we get a clue what the "finished" look will be like?? Thats simply GORGEOUS, it fills the engine bay!!!! It looks like it was built to go there!
Also, I wanted to ask you two things.. One (and I hate to sound like a nitpick, but) are you going to grind the welds on your intake plenum/air box at all, or is that weld going to be the finished product?
and two, about the construction of the heads.. I missed the conclusion on the build thread.. (link? i havent been around very long so I'm unsure which of the threads about this has been your "official" head build thread) Although I read what you said earlier, I wanted to make sure I understood it.. you've O ringed the block, and you have basically three separate sections, aligned and held in place with dowels, bolted onto the block? Like a modular head design? or am I oversimplfying your earlier statement and misunderstanding it in doing so?
If the answer to the last question is easier found in another thread, a link will suffice... or even a vague idea what the subject line on the thread was, so as to make searching for it easier for someone who wasn;'t paying attention when the project began..
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get an adapter to use the bung for the oil pressure sender, and install a real oil pressure gauge. Best bet.
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If you are running with the stock 280 ECU, then you need the 280 throttle position sensor, NOT the one from the 240SX. the older Zs used a double switch for a TPS.. either Idling, Cruising, or WOT.. the newer ones (300ZX and 240SX both I believe) used a potentiometer style TPS.. basically a volume knob attached to the throttle shaft. TOTALLY different inputs and outputs, using the Pot-style TPS when you have an ECU that expects an older style TPS will not work.
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JDMFairladyZX at my local junk yard I have 2 99% complete 280zxT'S AND WILL be going there next weekend. I also have my family in west palm so let me know if you need some thing from them also my dad and his friends have (9-12) l28/ l28t motors and parts.
Benjamin? or Brandon? cuz beau lives in town, right?
its shawn carey.
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I was thinking of building a flow test bench at some point. Thanks for the link!
You are more than welcome, thanks for the information. The link really doesnt contain much of a secret formula, but it is nice to see what someone else has already done before you embark upon building somthing like that for yourself. Any reason not to just use a stock fuel rail and pressure regulator with the vacuum port vented to the atmosphere? It would obviously also take a dropping resistor.. something like this could (obviously) be rigged up easily and on the cheap, or could be done with varying degrees of complexity (timers etc.) It is a project I have been thinking about in the background for some time now.
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Another thing to keep mind is that an injector is an electro-mechanical device. Injectors have a minimum opening time that is determined by the mechanical design. This is limiting factor, not the ECU. If the injector has a minimum opening time of .1ms, then the ECU should be capable of at least one half of that for good fueling resolution. Used injectors can have much different minimum opening times resulting in some that might be lazier than others.
So if your engine doesn't require much fuel at idle, getting a smooth idle from big injectors may be difficult.
Okay, I understood most of the preceding statements already.. but THIS statement leads me to another question...
I have scads of stock 280Z injectors. I was planning on building a cleaning/flow test rack like this one to clean and "flow match" myself a set of 6 good injectors. I was also contemplating selling alot of them to some of my subaru friends, because the 80s subaru turbo engines use the ZX injectors as a larger alternative.
I take the above statement to mean that, my home made flow test bench will be nothing like actually having the injectors sent out and cleaned and spec'd professionally, because I have no way of determining the "dead time" on each injector, other than eyeballing it.. am I right? I mean, the test bench obviously serves some good in any case.. but probably not as much as I would like, given this new information that I have picked up now.
Am I more or less correct?
Sorry for the hijack, it just didnt seem worth it to start another thread, since it would be taking these questions out of the context in which they arose.
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thanks to everyone who helped enlighten me.. the thought of running rich at idle on large injectors hadn't occurred to me.. can you tell I've never been outside of 200 horsepower?
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I am no genius, no guru.. I'm only 26 and havent played anywhere NEAR as much as I would like to, yet... but my advice is to take a day off ENTIRELY. DONT come to the forum, don't think about it, just WALK AWAY for a day.. come back and slowly, carefully re evaluate your problem from the get go.
In my experience, whenever I get to his point it is because I have missed something BRUTALLY obvious... its like looking for your keys. You tear the whole house apart for an hour.. then realize how angry you will be when you find them at how obvious it REALLY was in the end...
Take a breather and forget what you know about the problem. Come back and discover it again. The forgetting is the most important part, because my bet is that you have overlooked something.
Hope this helps, and good luck.. you DO seem to have something of a nipple-twister here....
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That would be an important part of making a fast SM2 car....
If you fall into a pile of cash, Sunbelt has an assembled L30 long block (F54, P90) that Jim says is good to 650 horsepower. Customer backed out of the deal so they are looking to get around $7,500 for it. Lots of forged internal parts and a custom Crower crank from what I understand.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for a pile of cash to drop into....
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I just came across this post, this is what I have been working on
why bother with multiple injectors when you are making a customized intake setup anyhow? just use one hugeass injector per cylinder. K.I.S.S., right? or am I displaying my ignorance?
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Fantastic work. Those stub axles have a death wish at 571HP! CV axles may in its future!
Beat me to it!! have fun while the last, and they are VERY pretty, but you will likely blow those axles sooner than you'd like...
What kind of angle do they run at when the car is set on the ground? the closer to horizontal at rest, the better. Ideally, you'd like it to sit with the diff a little higher than the wheel hubs, so the axles point downwards just a tad. This way, under hard acceleration, or when a bump is hit, or any time stress is put on the rear of the car (read: hard driving) it gives you a little bit of room before you start sagging below..
Just keep in mind that the flatter you keep your axles, the longer they will last. Keeping spares around would behoove, as well. Even if they don't look that nice. That *is* a nice looking suspension, btw.. incredible looking car overall, the turbocharger fits under that door much nicer than a battery would
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try hunting around the engine bay with a mechanic's stethoscope (or a piece of tubing stuck in your ear)
Run the leakdown test, too (always good to know your numbers) but if that checks out, then make sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere. IT *would* cause a miss, and low vacuum....
AFM adjustment screw
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
There should be a procedure in the "tech tips" page I linked you to in your "surging" thread.. it isnt an adjustment screw, per se, but it is adjustable to a degree. (no pun intended) its not the simplest procedure, more of a calibration than a basic adjustment, but it isnt difficult.