Xnke

I'd have to calculate the volume of the block, the cost of the cast iron sleeves, plus machine time to make it usable. It took DMD 5 years to go from sectioned iron block to running aluminum engine, and it took me 10 months to go from "close 'nuff" drawings to a cast iron miniature block. Even then, it's just a casting, we'd have to find a place to get it machined, too.

You guys get enough confirmed buyers, I'll pattern and mold them. I've done the L24 in miniature, surely i can scale the thing up. It's not like an L series block to section is hard to find. Only thing i can't do is guarantee the timeline right now...and you guys who want one are gonna have to come down to help me with the pour...that large of a pour is gonna be a real pain...

That seems like a much better deal, but alas, another 400$ that I don't have. So far, almost all the machine work is going to get done for free, due to my student status at school. We have a crank grinder in the basement of the engineering and welding shop. Needs a bit of TLC and a new grinding wheel, but the school will cover the cost of the wheel if i get it going again. Also, the big CNC milling and turning centers are available to me as well, so if i can get some good aluminum billet, that's an option as well. So far, no one wants to sell me unfinished forgings for pistons... Pretty much, if it weren't for the very low cost machine work, then i wouldn't be able to do it at all.

The biggest problem I foresee is the oil filter, but i guess we'll see when you get your block back. I'm also looking at making an LD version of Raami's block brace, integrating the front oil pickup block off plate into the brace. Here's the proposed setup: L20B timing cover L20B timing chain LD28 block bored to 87mm LD28 block brace L28ET oil filter cooler plate (maybe it'll fit...might not be needed) L28 crank, offset ground out to 84mm 4G63 rods Z22S pistons And one of the two following cylinder head choices: 8.7:1 compression: E88 cylinder head with 12mm headbolts Delta Cams .480/284 cam L28-sized valves OR 9.5:1 compression: MN-47 cylinder head with 12mm headbolts Delta Cams .480/284 cam L28 valves The high compression choice is marred by the pistons, because they are dished. For best possible performance, I'd need custom pistons for it, and those are (at the moment) out of the budget. If anyone else has any ideas on ~87mm pistons with a 21mm pin, and a 35.5mm compression height, I'd be glad to hear them. So far, the Z22S is the only one I've been able to locate.

So i guess it's gonna be a non-stroker, but still an L30. kinda busy atm, but more details later.

http://www.dmdaustralia.com.au/block.html Anyone else here game? I'll bet an Aluminum L would be pretty close to the same lines...

Ok, so it's confirmed. I'm going to be doing an LD block conversion at some point. What I need now are as many detailed photos of the bare L series block as possible, specifically, the PCV tube area, the oil filter area, and the top deck surface, as well as pictures of an LD block in those same areas. Anyone taken the time to photograph there block lately?

Well, I looked into getting some 4G63 rods this evening. Got some buddies down the street who are DSM fans...they're gonna look around and find me 6 weight- and condition-matching ones. Next up on the list of parts to source is the L20B timing cover. Time to call the local scrapyards, and see what can be had.

Yeah, i read all the DAW posts. He's probably still around over in one of the other forums i am a member of, i'll see if i can get ahold of him. Anyway, now i gotta find an LD block...

Ok, enough fighting. Back to the topic at hand: Spending some time looking at piston specs, rod measurements, and crank throws, but not actually having an open block to look at, this is all speculation on what will fit. I've got the junkyards of the Nashville and Louisville areas available at the expense of a long drive, but most of those places won't sell you a scrapped out crank, let alone give you a scored up junker. Everyone I talk to wants to sell the whole engine, or not at all. So I'm looking for an old L28 crank, preferably with the main journals in good shape, and I could care less about the condition of the rod journals. As long as it's not severely bent, cracked, or has been otherwise tortured, I figure it'll do. Who's got one, and better yet, what's the best way for me to get one short of driving a datsun with a rod bearing out? I'll probably spend this evening looking at alternative rods, like the 4G63 or something. EDIT With the 4G63 rods...the LD28 block+stroked LD28 crank gets a good rod ratio...and 3.4L displacement with some 90.5mm KA24 pistons

A few here have converted the LD28 to gasoline. More have used the crank to make an old L28 sing a little lower note. Even as we speak, those LD28 crankshafts are getting scarce, and expensive when you do find them. But what if I still want a little more stroke, you say, seeking the longest rod throw you can stuff in that chunk of cast iron love we call the L? So here's the question: What about the forgotten '81-'84 Maxima L24E rods? With a 44.91mm big end bore, you can take that L28 crank and offset grind it out a hair over 5mm to get 84mm of stroke, 1mm more than that precious LD28. Now before you scoff at the idea, there are some usable combinations out there. After playing around with the Ozdat tool, I came up with the following: L28 block, bored and (likely) sleeved for 90mm L28 crank ground out to 84mm L24e rods, small end reamed to 21mm (comes as 20mm) Need a piston solution, pin height needed is 32mm Total Displacement 3.2L L28 block, bored and (likely) sleeved for 90mm LD28 crank ground out to 88mm L24e rods, small end reamed to 22mm (comes as 20mm, not sure if it's possible...) FJ20 90mm pistons Total Displacement 3.36L Or, for the more conservatively minded: L28 block, bored for 88mm L28 crank ground out to 84mm L24e rods, small end reamed to 21mm (comes as 20mm) still looking for a piston solution, need 32mm pin height Total Displacement 3.0L So, let's hear why it WON'T work, and then let's figure out how to make it work. Eh?

Practical limit at 85mm. Look for some L18 pistons, they do have a dish in them, but that just makes for a good turbo foundation. Hard limit at 86mm. At 87mm you're gonna be risking water damage. Yes, i'm boring my L24 to 85mm. Yes, it is practical, because all the parts have been donated/recovered for cheap. Just looking for a machine shop.... Anyone else think 130$ is not so bad to get an L24 bored and honed?

as for using ACE hardware bolts, forget the grading scale. ALL internally wrenching fasteners are grade 5 minumum, if they are of any account. Grade 8 internally wrenching fasteners are *MOST LIKELY* going to be fine for a mild L-series. ARP headstuds are not required for a good engine, but like others here have said, if you're going to be working on it a lot, go for it. You'll like the extra insurance. In OTM's situation, the ACE hardware store bolts will probably be fine, as long as he keeps an eye on them.

The real reason that you would want to use studs is when you have to put bolts into aluminum, and you'll be torqueing them down. Studs have less of a tendency to gall the aluminum threads, since you aren't applying a pull force plus the sliding friction of the thread engagement. THAT's why you should use good quality studs in aluminum head applications.

So what of this can i apply to an SU-carbed setup, Tony D? I have looked at the TBI conversions for the SU's, and eventually will go that route, but I don't even have a "car" yet. Still restoring the unibody...but I'm almost there. Early summer should see me ready to paint. First things i can see here: -Pressurize the float bowls via a tube off the plenum, needle valves to precisely adjust things. -Separated plenum chambers, to help equalize boost pressure between the two carbs. -get on boost at as low an RPM as possible, to lessen the effects of tip-in pops and snaps. Probably could look at running a supercharger and eliminate much of the problems related to turbocharging, such as on-boost/off-boost situations. WIth a supercharger, shouldn't i be able to run +1 or +2 manifold PSI all the time?

Thanks guys, for the info. Yes, I did search, but no one here uses the 83mm bore, all our really excellent information is on the L28/stroker. Especially compression ratio numbers, and cylinder head reccommendations. The steel seat is, IMHO, MANDATORY for unleaded gas, because without it you are chewing little bits of the bronze valve seat up and running them through the engine. It's like leaving that ultrafine aluminum dust from polishing your intake runners to be blown through the engine...only the bronze seat is harder. As minimal an issue as some may think it is, I wouldn't trust it.

Ok, this is good feedback, but no one has answered the real question: Is the MN47 head a better performing head than the E88? BTW, does the MN47 head have steel intake valve seats? the E88 doesn't, and to run unleaded gas, needs them. That kind of work would make or break my decision, as if I've gotta have new seats either way, the question of budget goes out the window.

I have a '72 L24 that is going to be rebuilt as soon as I can decide what to do with it. I will eventually be swapping in a VG30, in the mid-distant future, so going to an L28 just for the larger displacement is just an unneeded expense. Now, given that the MN-47 doesn't need eyebrowing the block, and the E88 will need a valve job, plus suboptimal chamber shape Which would you choose as a starting point? I have a stock L24, with a worn out 83mm bore. Probably going to bore to a convenient size, as I have access to the machine tools to do it. I'll have to run 89 octane or less, as the 93 octane around here is hit-and-miss....lots of water, and the occasional 900lbs of sugar in the tanks...lots of greenies who think that all high-performance vehicles need to be banned. I think that this means a static compression ratio of 9.5 or so. With the E88, Assuming that you have the large valves installed and eyebrow the block, can it be welded to reshape the chamber, without closing it up so much that the compression ratio exceeds 9.5:1 with stock flat-top pistons? If it would, then would moving to L26 dished pistons be of any gain, or would it negate the reshaping? Would starting with a MN-47 head work better? Remember, this is a SU carbed L24. It will be built nicely, but not extensively. I'll move to TBI when I get the thing running. Most of the machine work will be done in a university setting, as I can get free tooling time up there.

try Delta Camshaft in the US. it'd be a fair bit for you for shipping, but the regrind itself isn't bad, they quoted me at about 55USD. good stuff.

Well, this is pleasing to the ears! Yes Z-ya, I know about building it right. I work in the school's machine shop, so that part of an engine build is taken care of. For the L28, the biggest expense is getting the parts. X64v, that information is very nice to know. I'll be calling Delta today to get my cam reground, and that information is instrumental to what grind I'll choose. Thanks goes to Both of you guys for a FAST, accurate answer!

I have a bone stock L24 engine. I want to eventually upgrade to the L28 block, but for now I'll have to run what I got for a few years. I'll be driving this car daily. In the future, I'll be trying to obtain a P79 or P90 head, but for now, I've got the E88. It seems that the general opinion of the E88 cylinder head (open chamber type) is that it's good, but not good enough. I've got one of these in good condition, but now I've heard that even on premium pump gas (93 octane) it pings and rattles like a kettle on the stove. I'm planning to run a Delta Cams reground camshaft, 285*, .480 lift, twin rebuilt SU's, and a ported and polished E88 intake manifold. I'm a college student, so I either have to work with what I have, or compromise in another area. It seems from what I can read here that the E88 open chamber head has minimal valve shrouding, and so should be able to flow fairly well, but the open chambers yield crappy quench and thus ping all over the place. Assuming that I could obtain L26 pistons (these are dished to lower CR and match the open chamber better) I could probably solve this problem, but at the expense of less power. What kind of work would the E88 head benefit from the most, as far as making it work with flat top L24 pistons, keeping in mind that I'd like to be able to run mid-grade gas (89 octane)? 93 is not available everywhere around here, and it leaves me with a little detonation safety. So far, the intake and exhaust ports will be treated to a decent porting job, new valve seats, and a ported intake manifold. Any Ideas/suggestions?

Works even better if you get one of those 25$ granite surface plates....hell, then you can even test the flatness...

Guys, I would love to post pictures and videos, but the engine is currently out of the country. I have sold it to a modeling company, along with a copy of the drawings and the casting patterns, in order to fund my college education. (helped me out quite a bit!) Now, seeing as they are going to start producing the castings as a kit and selling the plans, I can't really discuss the name of the company or it's location yet, but I am remaking my patterns and core boxes, this time a little bigger so I can make true SU carbs to go on it. When it warms up enough that I can pour the castings again, (gotta be 55-60 before my water bound sand holds up well enough to do complex castings) I'll start rebuilding it. Don't hold your breath, because it took 4 years to finish the first one. The second one shouldn't take near so long, but we'll see how it goes. I'd like to finish my first L24 before I make another L0.330! Hopefully I can get a set of castings from the model company, seeing as they are only under license...

DON'T use stainless for that. Stainless steel is notorious for galling when used in even a light-duty bearing, and a galled up throttle bearing=bad news. If anything, use a heavy wall brass tube, and ream it to size after casting. I've cast quite a few things, up to and including patterning and casting an entire replica of the L24 as a fully operational scale model. Trust me, I made the SS bearing tube mistake already, and had to recast two TINY SU carb bodies...(Sadly, i couldn't get the detail required to get them to operate like real SU's, mine are just look-alikes) Total displacement in my model is a whopping 13cid. And you thought that the full size L-series could get fiddly up on top! :) When you get around to getting these cast, are you doing it yourself or jobbing it out? Doing it yourself isn't that difficult, and the learning curve is just about vertical. Once i get the rest of my car up and going, i may put the freed up space in the garage to good use and go for the DOHC setup ala 1 fast z, but as a solid casting! Jake

Well, to start, the stock turbine housings are a little too big as compared to the turbine wheel. The different aspect housings usually force a closer fit, and more of you exhaust is doing the work, resulting in lower RPM spooling. The downside is the increased backpressure. Usually, the biggest increases are seen from using a larger compressor wheel and housing. There is both a point of diminishing returns, and a point of NO return, where you just burn up the turbine wheel. Both of these points happen when you go with too big a compressor, or too small of a turbine. Although I've not ever had a ZX turbo apart, I have built several turbocharger based jet engines, which require more efficient turbos to get any kind of decent power, so I'd imagine that while a full on jet engine turbo wouldn't work well, a larger compressor side and a tighter turbine housing would have better flow, and higher pressures at lower turbine RPM. This is a little easier on turbo bearings, which, by the way, need to be addressed. Good thrust bearings are a must, and the ZX stock turbo bearings aren't that great. While adequete, more recent model turbo would be better in this respect (Oh really, you think? ) With the better matched housing and turbine, a better thrust bearing, and a larger compressor wheel/housing, you could very easily make a 50hp jump.