Xnke

Yeah, I know where you are coming from man. Search around, you'll find a few of my old threads, where I wanted to do that same thing. You can't bore the P30 block that far and expect it to last. Biggest you can go safely and reliably is 85mm. (L18 pistons come to mind...if you can find them.) Like Tony D said, Get the L28 block. It's the same money, same favors, but much more potential. i was a die-hard "use-what-you-got" guy when I started here. Still am, but it's not worth the extra money to try to make more HP with less engine. Save the money you'd spend on the L24, spend part of it on the L28 shortblock, and dump the rest into the cylinder head. Pour as much as you can stand into the head, if it's power you are seeking.

Not as much opening up as you think. I can fit the E88 intakes on my lathe's faceplate and open up the carb mounting face to 50mm easily. LOTS of meat on this casting. VERY interesting numbers on that N-36 manifold, I guessed as much regarding the internal division. Yes, the eventual goal was to build up a spreadsheet or listing of all the manifold castings and the characteristics of each, for reference. I am generally trying to eliminate a lot of the "this manifold, that manifold" crap that I see on the web, and nail down the good and bad characteristics of each. To start out, i planned to make a chart of runner diameter, length, and wall thickness, but haven't figured out a good method of measuring runner length on my carb manifolds. (don't have any EFI manifolds here.)

Guys, the dimensions I am looking for are pretty much what I gave for the E88...Carb/TB mounting orifice, porting/port matching potential, runner size, and runner wall thickness. Also, any consistant thin spots or pitfalls. A pair of calipers and about 20 minutes is all it takes, so if anyone here has access to the common or uncommon types of stock manifolds, by all means help add to the wealth of knowledge that is HybridZ. For example, I've read on here from reliable sources that the runner ID on the N47 intake are 30-32mm ID, with not much room to port or port match. I'd like it if someone could actually measure and confirm or deny that this is true. Especially the N36 carb intake manifold...the 10Hp claim has some meat to it, but why? are the runners different? bigger ID? longer?

I have been reading up on Z-ya's SU/EFI manifold marriage, and decided to do some research. Can anyone fill in the gaps on the EFI manifolds, and the other SU-carb manifolds? On the E88 intake manifolds, the carb/TB mounting face opening is 47mm, +/-1mm. LOTS of meat here for porting/port matching. 55mm should be readily attainable. At the cylinder head mounting flange, the runner diameter is 35mm, +/- .5mm. This is a stock cast runner, I can detect no port matching or polishing, just regular casting marks. Parting line and as-cast finish show no modifications. Just before the cylinder head mounting flange, the thinnest measureable cross section I could find on the runner wall was 4mm. Use EXTREME caution when porting/port matching the manifold between cylinders 2&3 and 4&5. The little divider that separates the two runners has thinner walls, probably some 3mm or less.Probably best to weld up this portion if you are gonna be removing more than 2mm from the runner walls. If anyone out there has more information on the N33/N36 carb manifolds, and the EFI manifolds, please post your findings so we can all benefit from the knowledge. Thanks!

Ok. So, lesse what I got to work with: E88 cylinder head, pressure tested. Needs bigger valves, porting. 4G63 rods L24 rods L24 crank L28 crank L24 P30 block L28 N42 block (87mm bore) E88 carb intake manifold '72 SU's Things I can aquire and/or fabricate: P79 cylinder head L28 rods round port header twin throttle bodies + megasquirt, after the thing is running on carbs. (This looks pretty damn cool to me, from the pictures that Z-ya posted. Probably the final ieteration.) So, to sum up the thread: I would get better performance AND a more compatable (from an octane standpoint) from an L28 with flat-top pistons and a P79 head. It would be possible to run the E88 and Z22S piston/L24 rod combination, but ultimately would be less desirable. Is this the general consensus?

Certainly, I can see the dollars/HP point. The 200HP that I want a starting point at the wheels, and I don't see many N/A L28s OR L31s doing that. The crank work isn't that big of a deal, the local shop isn't going to charge me any more than if it were a simple resize to clean up a scored bearing. The reason for using the LD block is to be different, and for the long rod reasoning. Not because long rods make more power, but because it provides longevity. Notice how all the newer engines have much longer rods than the L28? I don't know why, but I do know that by geometric reasoning, it puts less side load on the pistons. And the Mitsu rods and bearings are inexpensive, because of popularity. You are correct, it is quite a bit of money. And, I'm usually broke. But I don't see it costing much more than rebuilding an L28, considering that the parts yards around here are completely devoid of anything imported and older than 1990. I go looking around in the local (and some not so local) junkyards, and there are never any L28s, or Z's at all, around here. (Bowling Green is home of the Corvette, and all the parts yards keep around is GM and sometimes a few Ford parts cars) Here's the parts/price breakdown so far, mostly discards from HybridZ members. L20B timing cover-Gift from GF LD28 block-75$(can likely get an L28 block for a similar price, dunno yet.) L28 crank-15$ Delta cams regrind-82$ Mitsu 4G63 rods-14$ for 6 Price to bore block-130$ Price to regrind crank-168$ Price to sleeve block with custom sleeves-free, as long as I provide sleeves. I have already cast the blanks out of a dead KA24 block, will machine to fit when school starts back. Total cost to me-about 18 hours of time. Main bearings-54$ Rod bearings-51$ Gasket set-74$ Various assembly necessities-200$ Total cost:864$ That's the projected build cost, minus pistons. What would a similar L28 build cost, on average? ***EDIT*** I have decided that the regular L28 block and crank will work fine, and save a ton of money. Hopefully the member here selling me the block will let me sub out the L28 block he's got instead. If I continue to use the Z22S piston, then I can use the L24 rods that I have already, and slap a ported MN47 head on top for 9.7:1, or use my E88 for 8.9:1 compression.

Well, there is solid steel behind the bondo. No rust, I cleaned all the bondo and rust out and replaced what I could, but there i still a lot of filler. The newer formulation of bondo is quite a bit stronger, and I did use fiberglass filler under the top layer of bondo. I can easily fit in zip nuts to bolt on the flares, that's no problem, or actually weld nuts on and redo the filler. In the first picture, the passenger side, you can kind of make out a diagonal that runs across the fuel filler door, that's a brazed lap joint that came with the car. Hard to hide, but I think I can make it disappear too. Mainly, I'm just worried about the bondo being softer and the movement of the flares from heat expansion and body movement actually rubbing the bondo off, or something like that. In thin layers, I'm not too worried, but 1/8" is the max thickness for regular bondo. I've got fiberglass bondo in behind that, so it's only a skin of actual bondo there, but I dunno. On the other hand, using the flares should let me cut out a substantial section of the thickest bondo, which is why i am considering them.

I'm at a loss as to how the bodyman before me got this much bondo to look so good. the only telltale sign was a fuel filler door that "just didn't look right." well, the scars run deep, and there is about 1/8" of bondo over a substantial amount of the quarter on both sides of the car. Most of it is just a skim coat, and in the pictures you see, I've either started to seriously reduce the amount of bondo needed, or finished it to the best of my ability (I'm good with 16g or thicker metal, i'm an armorer by trade. but the 72's 20g sheet is just a whole new animal as far as forming and shaping.) So, is this kind of damage ZG-flare able, mainly to cover up the worst of the damage here? The worst side...when I started, the bondo was ONE INCH THICK. now, it's down to a max depth of 3/16" in one spot, but I'm still not happy with it. Hopefully a pair of ZG flares can help me hide the damage. Sorry, this is the only picture I have. The bondo starts at the top body line, and goes all the way down to the edge of the fender lip. At the apex of the fender, the bondo is 1/8" thick. SO, you guys think it can be done? Or is it worth the extra cost (2K$ or better) to take the bodyshell to the pros and have them rework the whole rear end of the car?

I'm looking for a cylinder head for my 3.0l, long rod, street motor. I have an open chamber E88 head here, and can get a P79 head for relatively cheap. I have a ridiculously tight budget. I also have a good amount of time on my hands. Power goals are modest at 200HP. Anyway, My dilemma is thus: to save on gas costs, and still make some half decent N/A power, I chose ~9:1 compression. My planned engine: LD block, bored to 87mm, sleeved if needed. (I have sleeves and boring is cheap 'round here) 150mm 4G63 rods L28 crank ground out to 84mm Z22S pistons Delta Cams .490/280' bumpstick Thus, I have cast piston with a ~9cc dish. the dish kills the quench properties of the P series heads, and has a CR of 9.3:1 with an E88 head. I want to run 89 octane, because of availability, with the option to run 93. I don't want to be trapped on 93 octane. Before someone comes up and starts a cylinder head war, Don't. I've searched all over these forums, and can't find a good answer. Usually, I just find where a poster started a thread, and folks fought over it. Is it worth it to get custom flat-tops and run a P-series head from a performance vs price standpoint? Is the open chamber head+dished piston combination drivable on 89 octane at a CR of just over 9:1? Keep in mind I'm not going to be boosting this engine. I plan to run twin SU's until I can afford a good set of triples, probably Webers or OER's. A clean discussion on the performance difference between the E-88 open chamber head (Apparently, no one wants this head for performance, but I don't see much difference from the N42 except valve size) And the P-79 closed-chamber head FROM A COMBUSTION CHAMBER STANDPOINT is what is desired. Porting is to be assumed, although nothing really nutty. I'd like to avoid welding on the head. Hopefully, this thread doesn't end up being dumped in the tool shed due to a silly argument over the "Q word".

Sounds like it's time to buy a new damper. I plan to get mine rebuilt by some guy on the internet...he's been mentioned here a few times, but i can't remember his name.

Well, for starters, carb throat diameter for a single-intake-event system should be Piston Diameter/3. in the L24, that means a 27mm throat is the minimum carb size for that engine. 30mm is the next largest common size, and would be adequate to start with. If it was me, i'd go with a 36mm carb, per cylinder. But that's still gonna be a pain to tune the first time round.

Or better yet, has anyone considered the Z2(x) series water pumps? I have heard on several forums that they have a larger diameter *cast* impeller, as opposed to the smaller folded sheet steel impeller of the L-series pumps. Looking at http://www.allwaterpumps.com, I found several different types of L and Z series water pumps with the same part number, and some had cast impellers, others had folded sheetmetal. The cast impellers looked like they filled the housing more. Anyone got experience with these? Maybe with a larger impeller, the flow could be increased enough to make a difference.

As I said, I couldn't pass calculus II. They sent me the "go home, and don't come back next semester" letter.

Get a ford EDIS setup going from a ford Explorer, and get a Megajolt jr. from Autosport labs. Total cost for parts can be a low as 175$ for a full distributorless system on a carbed car, AND it's tunable similar to megasquirt. This is how I plan to do mine, after i get the engine built and running on a dizzy. ***EDIT*** Since you are already running megasquirt, the cost comes down to around 50-75$ for parts, maybe a little more for machining the crank trigger stuff.

Well, 1 Fast Z, I may be inexperienced, but I do have an incomplete set of 130mm rods with 8mm bolts. There are (I think) 3 rods left, they were sacrificed to the tensile test gods in the lab at school. the 8mm and 9mm rods were tensile tested and failed within 100lbs of each other, both in the section of the bolt right around where the split is in the bearing, WHEN the rod bolt was the failure point. when the rod bolts didn't fail, the failure happened at the oil hole drilled in the upper part of the rod, once the rod broke straight across, the other one that failed this way broke in a jagged diagonal. I would post graphs and figures, however I am no longer allowed at that school. I couldn't cut it in calculus II, regardless of how well I was doing in my other classes.

Sounds reasonable. I'd venture a guess that some of the early L26's with 8mm bolts had some bolt breaking issues, what with the (possibly) greater forces on them.

If that's the case, then why all the hullaballoo about 9mm L24 rods? On a side note, one of my projects in the ME lab was tensile testing of various fasteners of my choice. By tensile test in the lab at school, the old datsun 8mm and 9mm rod bolts for the L24 fail within 100lbs of each other...

uhhhh....NO. the L28 got 8mm rods, period. Unless the rods have been drilled and fitted with 9mm bolts, which i guess could be done.

Why not return both #5 and #6 to the water pump inlet?

Well, in building my L30, I'm looking at the ignition portion of the build. (still in the parts-acquisition-while-de-rusting-body phase) I have the opportunity to purchase an L28 dizzy, but cannot see it in person due to distance. I am told that it has the electronic module, but also a vacuum advance. Does this sound like the one I want? I figure that this'll hold me over till I can get a Ford EDIS system going, but since I want to keep my carbies, can an EDIS system run without an ECU? What would be required to make that work? What other options are there for a reliable, strong, clean ignition system on the L powered Z?

Hmmm...I wonder what kind of gear ratios the Xterra FS5W71C box has? being as it was made until 2002, it'd be easy to find one in good condition. Presumably, the front casing swap would be the same to fit the L motor.

I thought Tony D was shifting the Bonnieville car at 9300? I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty certain.

Did you ever get the seats to clear the door well? I am considering the black seats to mount in my '72 Z, and the mounts are seriously different than what you are showing. Anyone here know if they will fit well?

I've always used Bar and Chain oil for chainsaws, but so has my dad and his dad. I've never had any problems, but then again, I've only done 6 engines. Some of these guys have done 20 or 30, I'd bet!

If it was me, I'd stick with the P79, and call Z therapy about the carb needles. They aren't that expensive. IF your E88 has been fully worked over and is in just all around better shape, then I might consider the work to swap the heads, but if the P79 has been rebuilt, then I'd stick with it for sure. Just a better design. Yes, the higher compression is good for power, and yes the E88 can make good power. But the P79 has just as much if not more potential, especially if you decide to rebuild and kick the compression up some. Really, I'd call Steve at Ztherapy and get his opinion, as far as the carbs go, but I am pretty sure that you'll be fine with the SM needles.