Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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I would agree 100%: you get what you pay for!
This stuff takes time, and parts aren't cheap.
The going rate out of electromotive in the early 80's for a competition prepped L24 head was around $3500. That was 1980's dollars, take a quick trip to the CPI Inflation Calculator, and retire the argument that pricing has changed. If anything it's come DOWN SLIGHTLY!!!
Long and short of it is if you are actually a real competitor and not a casual (or even serious STREET) enthusiast, the pricing actually becomes moot. If its what you need to win, and if you want to win, you GET IT.
They have a name for people who "bag" about the costs without ever buying the part: "LOSERS" !
In more polite terms: "Podium Places 2, & 3, followed by the rest of the field"!
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And the deck/head check in the area of failure revealed...
I don't even want to guess where the Internet rebuild came from...
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Everybody is obsessing on how "much" the cam is "retarded" by the milling, and has been unable to see the forest because of all the trees when someone answers "degree the cam as you normally would, and move on"...
With the KEW tensioner, one makes the assumption that it's not some amatuer stock rebuild, where they are thinking "stick it in the hole and fagadboudit"---one makes the assumption that you will degree the cam, see where it lies, and install "straight up" to give camshaft grinders projected performance.
Stuffing it on an arbitrary hole on a stock or even multi-holed sprocket (calculations notwithstanding) is at best a compromised guess.
Use the Tomei sprocket, set up your indicator Znd set the cam where it's supposed to be, not approximately, not 'as best as I can get from my calculations'---EXACTLY where it's supposed to be.
No, you don't need the shims. Degree the cam as you normally would. If you want to do calculations, do them. Won't change the fact that if the cam is ground 1/2 a degree off the profile you STILL need to degree it and set it 'straight up' for your dyno baseline, then make your pulls to determine which relative position (exact amount of advance or retard necessary) to give best power under the curve.
The problem with calculations is they don't remove the reason you do degreeing in the first place: chain stretch or cam grinder errors.
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Yes, paying attention to ball care can really increase the volume of squirt produced when you jerk the lever quickly.
I met this ball specialist in Singapore who worked mine over in about 2 hours. I was amazed by the volume she produced.
To that point, I'd never experienced anything like it. I'd highly recommend that operation if you don't have adequate squirting volumes.
The Manager hangs out around the corner by Orchard Towers and can arrange a meeting whereby your balls get a proper working over...
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A friend of mine tried this solution when he switched his ZX with Carbs. He ended up being lean because of fuel delivery.
It seems that pressure regulation is reducing flow rate as well making the pump running out of fuel. He ended up removing his EFI fuel pump for carb specific pump. For $100, I wouldn't skip this step.
Carter 4070, Mallory 4070lp, Facet Red Top, etc. All would run 70gph at around 4 psi, good enough for 250whp.
He did something VERY WRONG then! The stock EFI fuel pump will fuel triples using a backpressure regulator to well over 300HP! The flow rate of the stock Bosch-Licensed pump goes through the roof at 3psi. I ran (and still do) this system to 375HP in turbocharged form and with a simple jet or regulator setting change immediately flood the engine to the point of sinking the floats and fuel pouring out the carburettor throats!
If someone "ran lean" using mere triples and the stock EFI pump---then either the pump was shot to begin with, or they did something VERY WRONG in setting up the system---first thought to mind by the way it was phrased was 'pressure regulation is reducing flow' meaning he DID NOT use the REQUIRED backpressure regulator. And FYI: the EXACT same thing will happen to a carb pump if you use that style regulator!
A backpressure regulator ALWAYS has full pump capacity available to deliver fuel to the carbs or injectors. Any regulator placed between the pump and the fuel delivery source is ALWAYS going to be a potential bottleneck in delivery through orifice size or malfunction.
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It really depends on your quantification of 'quality' firstly.
What 'grade' of parts will you accept? "Cheapest Possible Way Please" infers using things which most here would find objectionable in quality. They may work short-term, but long term don't hold up requiring a teardown and replacement.
It also depends on your tolerance for delay. If it is acceptable to you to wait for 6 months to a year for a 'cheap' price to come up on a component then sure it 'can' be done cheaper. I'd suggest a time frame for delivery might get this into a real-world scenario: immediate parts availability (one day to one month delay), short wait availability (60-90 days wait), medium wait availability (6 months to a year), and long-term gathering availability (parts acquisition timeframe of a year or longer.)
Each of those can have distinctly different pricing demands. And frankly between the first and last using identical quality components the cost savings may indeed only be a couple of hundred dollars.
I've got a complete Nissan Engine Parts Kit, assembled and waiting--ALL NISSAN PARTS IN NISSAN BOXES FROM A NISSAN DEALER. The parts were bought in Japan when the yen was high compared to now... I paid a dollar a bearing, the timing kit was $25. Prices today are considerably higher (if they can be found...) The entire "Kit" out the door from Nissan-Prince Naha was just under $900 at the time. L14 Rods (set of 6) included! That included the 'nismo' 780KG pressure plate and clutch disc, roller pilot bearing, timing chain tensioner with limiter, turbo oil pump, new front cover, new distributor quill shaft, Nismo 74 degree camshaft (JDM Sourced and delivered through Competition Parts Department), sports option pistons, blah blah blah... No, it is not for sale but waiting 25+ years really saved me money! I don't think I could assemble this kit today for ANY PRICE!
Now, those tranny bearing and synchro kits... by all means get a list of sources up as that will save me the search for my 75 five speed!
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"That money will cop a bagging from the US guys. They'll call you a rip off and say you can buy a whole Rebello motor for not much more."
Thanks for the insulting generality, but with all due respect: "Stuff It!"
While it MAY be true you can get a Rebello Engine Complete for 'not much more'... I don't see how it's invalid to state that fact. All it does is bring up an ignorant hypothetical that has ALREADY been discussed on this thread from the beginning.
Costs of stuff in Japan would likely get a bagging from the blokes in Australia, things just cost more there, it's a fact. They have a big market, but also don't begrudge a man his living as a specialist. And they get paid less, or more. It really is irrelevant.
If I want 360HP, I'll turbo a stock block and not look back...pocketing considerable change in the process. If you have a specification to meet, you pay to have it met. PERIOD! Doesn't matter where you're from.
When's the last time you guys got quotes on recasting heads? 35,000 Euros. Seems like $5,500 is pretty cheap when you consider the alternatives available to serious admirers of the marque.
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So he hinted at the idea of custom fabrication - taking a tripple carb manifold and convert it to FI. Has anyone actually done this stateside and have dyno results to show?
Do you have the book "How to Modify your Nissan OHC"?
If so, you have a photo of just such a modified triple intake manifold. The Cannon (actually Nissan Comp) Triple manifold was used as that was what all the porters (most to this day) used as a standard 'best flowing combination' which was then flanged to some bent tubing (undoubtedly with full radius trumpets on the end) and a rubber tube isolator that connected that tubing to a plenum with a single throttle body.
That setup is shown in several different pictures from several different angles in the above mentioned book.
BTW, I just got my EMS Post from Japan Monday---many more books from Nostalgia Two-Days. I've overspent...I'm broke, and heading back to Japan on Monday!
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Over 300 in an L28ET with regular old 87 octane pump gas.
Over 165 in an L28NA with regular old 87 octane pump gas.
Two personal daily driver examples. Go back and read my original post about compression and how much you get. It's not as much as you THINK you will get, and in most cases all you do is set up an engine that REQUIRES high-octane fuel.
What's a 5.7L Chevy making on 87 Octane these days? 330+ REAL HP? That's a 'significant' bump from the unreal 145 you made back in 1975...
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"IMO, simple answers have their place, but I try to not over-use them for the sake of someone's ignorance."
If I said that..... Ooooooh the furor!
I love U's, they were not in Z's....
But it's still in the Nissan Family
With the L, the G, the A and RB, too...
C'mon Hybridize you two!
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Chech for block or head irregularities in the area. Even a 0.002" "wave" in the surface (cumulative-0.001" on the head, 0.001" on the block) can alter clamping forces enough to make it susceptible to blowout when you hit some in audible detonation.
I had an Isuzu/Chevy Luv that repeatedly blew head gaskets in the same spot. Instead of decking the block (which had what looked like a "rusty spot " there, at the recommendation of a former Isuzu Engineer I placed a triangular piece of stainless steel shim stock on the area with red RTV and damned if it didn't stop the issue. He said in some cases 0.001" shim would be used instead of milling the surfaces and screwing to the blueprinted centrelines...
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I've been told I make answers overly complex, and because if that I'm a bad guy-some sort of know-it-all. I've been told things aren't as complex as I make them out to be most of the time.
I'm trying not to know as much as I do, so I'm more like a fat purple dinosaur that sings happy songs and dances with the kiddies in a non threatening, non pedophilia way.
I'm thinking of repainting my 260 Purple & Green...
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"And pulling a spark plug makes the knock go away..."
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Oh, and BTW, Ive just re-read the post and it says "list the mods needed" -- last I checked, hanging a hair dryer on an N/A Longblovk still was considered "a modification"
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Idle AFR is too high: 13.5-13.6 is normal , may need different accel pump setting, even when moving slowly they dribble fuel out to airstream.
Make sure your distributor is properly recurved to help with this issue!
You may need one jet size larger on idle! 57.5-62.5 is normal there!
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I'm onboard with Six-Shooter's last post on the JDM-Style wide band clamps. That was how one was assembled. They work darned good!
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Thing is, I don't know of any headers that are CARB listed.
There was, under the pre-CARB days the simple requirement that as long as the headers retained all smog fittings, they would pass.
Then the rules said you had to go through CARB testing. Most existing header makers for the Z-Car didn't want to bother with the new testing and sims dropped "smog legall" headers for the "not Ho be used on any pollution controlled vehicle" or " Not legal for sale in CA on Any pollution-controlled vehicle "
Good Luck!
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This ignorance of octane rating has persisted for years. Gene Berg was a big proponent of much lower than conventional practice for street engines in air cooled VW's. He showed dyno differences between the same engine optimised at each compression ratio from 7.0-10:1.
Big difference was detonation and rod bearing wear due to detonation...
His philosophy was with the EXTREMELY SMALL penalty in actual under-the-curve horsepower and torque compared to an engine that would run 150,000 miles+ vs. 30 Dragstrip Runs before needing rod bearings, you were far better off designing around low octane low compression. He actually would change heads to race, and swap back yo drive home!
The big thing is the consensus is the most economical way to reach 300RWHP is turbo. Can you do it N/A? Sure. What would you lose on that engine tuning for 87 compared to 113 C16 Racing Fuel? 20-30 Ho? 10%?
Seems to me most people have a problem handling 150-200HP, much less 300. I doubt they will notice much less be able to adequately utilise that power properly.
The difference in performance envelope between the car with 270 vs 300 RWHP is going to be minimal.
The longevity from lower compression, and being able to run most premium fuels with NO FEAR of detonation: PRICELESS!
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Why build around 87? Because when you're driving cross country on your special car and find the last station out of premium you can still fill and go like nothing.
Tell me, why would you build to 91 instead of 87? Seems to me common sense says build to 87, run 91 and NEVER DETONATE. Then again, my car hasn't broken or blown a head gasket since 85... Running anywhere from 5 to 21 psi... So what do I know? BTW, I tuned to 85 octane MoGas as that was what we had. Coming here to the states allowed me to bump up a bit.
I've seen more people blow their engines getting greedy on 91 instead of being happy tuning on 87 then running 91 as insurance. I like to actually DRIVE the car with looooong intervals between parts failures.
Maybe that's why?
And if you think building only 300HP on "low octane" is somehow expensive... What do you think I have in my dyno-best 375Hp setup (but which usually always runs at 350?)
What's expensive is greed. More boost. More power. I know guys who have paid more for HEAD GASKETS to make their high-octane motors run than I have in my entire engine. In fact, I remember what I paid for it: $25, Two 25Kg bags of Calrose Rice, and a 1/2 Gallon of Segrams Whiskey. For that I got a JDM L28 N/A with 24,000 miles on it along with the complete maintenance history. The Triples were $242, the turbo manifold surge tank and turbo under $500 at the time.
Considering Glidewell turned 288 at MSA this weekend and his setup is period comparable, I don't see where the big expense comes in tuning for 87... Other than he said he ran race gas and has a terrible surge box design... But I digress.
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I run the equivalent of the Nissan Tropical Thermostat (72C / 160F) and don't have any of the problems people do running the Temperate (82C / 180F) or the Frigid...
If its summer, and your temperatures will not drop appreciably below 21C, you're pushing it with "Temperate", if your temperatures are above 30C, you're simply asking for issues.
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Look to VARA where class year prep is enforced as much as it can be to see what happens without production specials allowed.
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Nigel beat me to it, a Swagelok SS6- something AN Adapter fitting will solve your issues. A/N 3/8" is -6 same measurement system Swagelok uses.
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And I didn't infer the people competing didn't research or know, that was limited to your comment.
Having watched original GT40's of LeMans vintage go into a wall three years in a row, only to be reconstructed each year for the next competition...
And having personally assisted with the campaigning of a 67 Shelby Cobra Coupe with LeMans provenance (and valued at €3,000,000+) I would think a serious competitor wouldn't hesitate campaigning a $250,000 432... They do regularly in Japan.
What it costs is a matter of scale in some instances. Comparatively the Gallardo was worth a bit more than any 432 might be... Original or Replica!
Note as well I made mention that the specialty heads were not necessary to get comparable competitive power handily with production bits straight from the showroom floor. Which is what I thought this was about all along.
twin cam L6 3.4L
in Nissan L6 Forum
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And just in case you cant find that inflation calculator, that $3500 Race Prepped L24 Head from Electramotive would run you $8320 in 2012 dollars.
So yeah, due to CNC, rapid prototyping, and computer technology making equipment cheaper to do better machining, it's CONSIDERABLY CHEAPER TODAY to get a full-on competition prepped head than it was "back in the day"!
$5,500 would be considered cheap. Anybody who doesn't thin so should well weigh the facts set forth in this particular post. I know the guy with the comp prepped head, and saw the invoice. To this day it sits, preserved in his garage. Perhaps when he dies, I'll get it... But it actually cost $3500 in 1982 to have that work done.
Consider well the wisdom of your elders, "they were there" and might have a different perspective than youngsters with no interest in history!