Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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"It's not really practical for Daily driving."
Actually, those seats are very comfortable for long term driving. You will find you don't get shoulder fatigue driving long distances. If the seat fits you, the need for 'cushion' is eliminated.
"My door bar idea was more to try to prevent the impactor from intruding too far into the cab."
As stated, this exists on all S30's from 73 onwards. Retrofit of 73 doors to earlier models will accomplish this in a proper manner, and not through some ham-fisted addition that will likely do more harm than good.
"So perhaps a combination of the two would make for a safer vehicle."
Perhaps? It's current standard design philosophy. The days of supposition or guessing are gone--it works and it's incorporated on all new vehicles currently sold here for street usage in the USA/North America.
"Now what type of foam to use? Regular expanding foam, "Great Stuff"?"
This gets to the complexity of design and engineering---FOAM is only one suggestion, you can not get blinders and fixate on semantics, the crash mitigation design of a car is a system integrated throughout the vehicle. Like I said, Volvo found rolled bits of cardboard tubing inside door handles dissipated energy very effectively. Stunt men routinely fall into corrugated boxes piled on the ground as they collapse at a know rate with a known surface collapse weight---if you have ever landed from height onto these boxes, it feels more like some big guy running into you and pushing you till you hit a wall softly instead of like falling out of bed onto the ground...WHUMP!
My suggestion of foam would ideally be some multi density stuff like rollbar padding, perhaps even stiffer like Ensolite or wrestling mat. It all depends on what body part you are intending for it to hit. Softer less dense foam in a layer nearest the extremity, with a layer of denser foam under that of a given thickness, and under that even more dense foam---like a progressive spring. Meaning when a small impact occurs, you 'bounce off' and no deformation of the panel occurs. Under heavier impacts, you could progressively compress the foams until the underlying sheetmetal is starting to deform from your 'immovable object' extremity working against the force of the impacting vehicle coming from the other way.
I would not use HARD foam like 'good stuff' as a primary impact agent. It will deform upon impact and will then require replacement. Like the foam inside a helmet --- ever look in there? Styrofoam! Same stuff you guy at home depot. Not particularly strong, but it WILL compress. Rollbar padding over that maybe... And a layer of thinner very soft foam or covering material for the door would all work to mitigate the impact.
I would stay away from anything you can't move with a HARD press of your thumb, or that doesn't somewhat spring-back. And stay away from anything that makes the doors underlying structure more rigid and unyielding. It needs to be able to move from external impacting vehicle, and from internal occupants which will hit it.
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The main reason, if you vent after your venting air that has already been cooled and that gets replaced with more warm air.
Having to remove extra heat is always something you want to avoid.
The problem is the air volume that has to be exhausted is more when it's hot than when it's cold. This is a common problem with industrial turbos where one side BOV works after the cooler, but it must be 25 to 50% larger when placed upstream of the cooler.
Placing it there will work, but only if the additional volume of the hot air being relieved is taken into account. Otherwise, this can cause a surge issue due to inadequate relief valve sizing.
Unless your car completely stops airflow across the intercooler when the BOV opens, it's a spurious argument to justify placing the BOV before the I/C as opposed to after it.
Additionally, the reverse wave of pressure will start at the T/B, and a BOV will stop this from travelling upstream towards the turbocharger. Your flow remains 'towards' the T/B when it vents there, venting at the turbocharger will allow reverse flow through the entire system before relief...
This can manifest itself in transitional response issues.
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Uh... cygnus, you DO realize the BBB takes money from it's members, right? Pay the fee and you get good ratings. People not with the BBB who get a complaint get a hard-sell from the BBB worse than time-share salesmen to join and pay the fees and then get their issue 'resolved' and get a good rating!
The "Legit" BBB is somewhat corrupt in this respect. I thought everybody knew how they worked! Apparently not!
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And by 'looking forward to it' I mean not taking an about-face and walking away.
Yeah, you're going to let the idiots whistle. They will look at you. They will beat their chest and bare their teeth.
Best thing to do is walk away. And if you aren't smart enough to leave the environment through some entitlement mentality that says you deserve to be there despite obvious bad elements present...you are looking for it.
And that makes you a fool.
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Walking away cures a lot of the Texas Attitude...and sadly that's what I see here. Hypermasculinized puff-chested attitude rampant more and more these days (and sadly to me, prevalent more in Texas than other places from my observations.) Wear your masculinity on your sleeve. It takes a bigger man to walk away knowing he's right than to stand toe-to-toe with some moron and 'prove' it...
I didn't get mugged. I got strong-arm extorted under color of authority. When a guy wears a police uniform, and has a gun, there is little you do but go along.
Could I have gotten out of it? Yep, in hindsight and knowing now that likely he was NOT a police official I had my chance and could have used it. But it was $400 that I shouldn't have had on me in the first place. If I didn't have it, would I have been shot? Maybe. But that's not how it worked out now was it?
As for 'big guns' for all the talk people have about anarchy and how you don't need cops blah blah blah...they have never experienced it firsthand. Doubtless many of them wouldn't survive the first round of eliminations when it came down to it. It would be a very un-nice place to be... Big guns work where law is not, and I'm not so stupid as to decline the chance for personal defense when presented with it. When they have AK's and you don't you loose. When they have AK's and you have an AK, at least I know I can give what I get and chances are I'm a better shot under pressure.
The biggest tragedy is the death of someone from lack of the ability to shoot back.
Words are words. It's not a gun.
Blood is f-ing slippery and when it starts flowing it's not a nice place to be. Anybody looking forward to it is a fool.
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Tony,
It's a 1972 production car. 'S30-008329' was the last 'S30'-prefixed body serial number produced in 1971. They got up to 'S30-011109' in 1972 before the big jump up to 'S30-100001' and on.
This particular car is less than 800 'S30'-prefixed bodies from the end of 1972 year manufacture.
Alan T.
Curously Alan, that is what I was meaning to say, 'not quite a 73' somehow 71 was down there instead of 72. I know I've seen 108,XXX out there (as well as my mystery chassis S30110661...)
I would agree on the pricing. No harm in asking, and my comment on reserve is what I figure is common knowledge out there for most 'high reserve' cars: find out who's serious, and discuss with them a price. E Bay is not necessarily about selling to the highest bidder when sniping is involved as much as it is these days. It is, however a nice pricing barometer, and DOES get you in contact with buyers who are more than the usual ilk of tire kickers and lowballers.
I have generally told people that the RHD FairladyZ's tend to go for roughly $1,000 more than comparable-condition HLS30's. Given that this car would sell in this condition for $5-700, I could see $1700 for an RHD as reasonable. I would consider $5-700 for this car a STEAL for some of the parts I see on it. Matter of fact I am in the cubicle next to someone who is from that area...and we are conspiring...but it probably won't happen. I have too much as it is, and only really want the parts... Don't have a use for the chassis, really. I've seen worse resurrected, though!
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Sage advice from a friend who was listed on the legislation calling for California's "Three Strikes" Law:
1) Aim low and if it walks up and he dies, you can say you were aiming low.
2) Once they're down, stop shooting! Three in the torso is justifiable, but the last two in the forehead standing over him...That's 5 to 7 Hard Time!
Honest to gawd truth!
Last thing I had to carry was a short barrelled AK47 after insurgents attacked the loading Jetty and killed one of our MPOLs... Anybody with prior military training was issued one and was required to sling arms daily on the way to work, at work, and back to the compound. We slept with them in our quarters while at the compound.
Curiously, not a single Frenchman was issued one, it was all Americans, Brits, and Filipinos! (I leave the obvious political comment there...)
What was that about knockdown power again? For me, I felt a LOT safer with that AK on my back than before when only the MPOLs had them! I don't think I would have had the same feeling of security if I only had a 9mm, 45ACP, or even a 50AE!
Then again the last time I felt the 'need' to carry was during the Rodney Riots and I had to go into the Curfew Area to retrieve compressor casings. In that instance, I brought an M1 Carbine with a 90 round jungle-style triple banana-clip and a bandolier of another 240 rounds in 15 round clips... When the LA Sheriff stopped me it was an interesting discussion.
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And the problem was?
Talk about rude! That is the fire calling the kettle black!
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Yes, someone else went through the 're-engineer the thing so it works like it should have from the beginning' process too!
Now there is a Euro Manifold (incidentally, which has larger internal flow diameter than that one!) worked up for that as a replacement. If only we could get it cast in stainless steel economically.
Which reminds me...while I'm in Shanghai I need to go talk with our casting supplier...
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I have to agree with John C on this one---the wrong thinking is to reinforce the door.
What you need to do is stop the acceleration zone between the door and your body. Note all the interior panels are SO MUCH CLOSER to you now in 'bigger' cars? A Linclon Town Car has me rubbing my knee on the dash bolsters and door, where I'm free to flop all over in the Z.
That's what gets you injured.
Volvo knew long ago that putting cardboard in the doors gave a deformable structure to spread out the time of impact and transfer of force to anything soft that impacts them in an impact. The best thing you can do is put dense foam on the inner door panels to a point that you don't have more than 1" of movement of any extremity from the door.
When you are hit, you only accelerate for that inch, then start compressing the foam and dissipating energy. You feel a large "push" when you get hit, not a "BANG-WHAP-SH*T!" response like in the car without padding.
Most of the internal panels these days move the deformable pressboard and foam very close to you so when you are hit, you deform the panel and stop your limbs from accelerating.
Like this photo, the acceleration from the steering wheel to the dashboard allowed for a cracked metacarpal. Had that been a pre-1967 dashboard, it would have been a broken wrist...or worse!
I agree what John C says: the forces are being misunderstood and the approach to mitigating them is totally wrong. You do not need any more stregnth than a 73 or later door has---it transfers side impact to the rest of the chassis, preventing spot-intrusion of the door to the driver. What needs to be done to 'improve' the survivability is get proper dense foam padding on the door panels that will cushion you when this happens. That is the #1 thing to do. The transfer of energy from door to A and B pillar is already accomplished with the latch mechanisim and door bar already in place. The 6/76 an later internal latches are slightly better at this than the earlier, but it's a minute amount.
What you need is elimination of hard impact points, filling of space to prevent limb acceleration, and putting deformable structures in place to spread out the force of impact over a second, instead of a millisecond.
There was a group of guys with Mercedes that were human crash dummies---they would crash the cars into things. They would all place pillows and foam so they couldn't move hardly at all save to move the wheel to steer into the target. Belted and thusly isolated, they rarely got injured, and they were impacting at HYPER velocities!
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barump, bump! Tisssshhhhh!
Thank you don't forget to tip your waiters, I'm here the rest of the week two shows 9 and 11...
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Side impact intrusion is pretty much a force-versus-mass equation. The bigger thing that hits you, the further in the side of the car it will progress...
That goes with a 2010 Kia, or a 1973-78 Z-Car (or earlier)...
Getting hit quartering away will be different than a full-front hit. Quartering will intrude futher than full on frontal.
If they are convinced the reason to buy a car is 'safe construction' bring up the fact that avoiding accidents is the best safety device of them all.
A small car is at a disadvantage to a larger car, period. Force-vs-Mass. You can't cheat physics. A safe car is the largest one you can get.
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Total Production.
Of course, the carburetted 73 Production 2/2's would likely be some of the lowest volume cars left alive.
And with S30-0002 still extant...anything anybody else has is trumped by that car as a chassis alone!
Nothing wrong with a high reserve, see where the bidding goes and then discuss with the highest bidders.
It's parts only though. Although I do have a 'supplemental chassis' that would likely take all those pieces nicely...
But I already own HLS30-06330 and S30-06225 so I got my 'Twins'---I would have to go find another 73 to twin this one up with, since my Shark Car HLS30-156466 just isn't close enough to be 'twinned' to a vehicle with a VIN of S30-100818!
I got this thing about twins. Nasty little pair of twins...
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Put a lot of importance on yourself?
My comment about Christine is just as ludicrous (or valid, if you will.) Please keep your transferrence issues to yourself.
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"You may be Mr. Right, honey... But he's Mr. Hung!"
Old Trosley Cartoon Punchline...
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45 ACP Round was designed to knock down drug-crazed Muslim Rebels in the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The 45 Long Colt would penetrate clean through and they would still dead run and wreak havoc in the line.
They make Hydra-Shock Ammo nowadays...a .380 in an old AMT Wallet Holster works just fine. So would a new Airweight, with the following caveat:
Revolver more reliable? That's contradictory of field tests done by the military...
"Doesn't Leave Witnesses?" Anybody involved in the line of work that is concerned about that knows a locked breech Ruger Bull Barrel doesn't either, and you only need one behind the ear to do that job.
Seriously, what does leaving expended brass on the ground have to do with any LEGITIMATE use of a firearm. Not to be too strong here, but that is a very ignorant statement to make...period.
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Late 71 Production Vehicle. Too bad about the condition, and the cancer. Nice Euro Balance Tube (and 38mm SU Carbs).
And it is rare. Total Fairlady Z production from 69-77 was just over 78,000 cars less than the total production of one year of US Market 260Z. Being that this is one of the last 240 chassis made, I think it does constitute 'rare'...
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Thank you very much for all of the respponses, the pictures and videos were nice too. I feel that i am still very much interested in the early z's and after reading your responses and further research I think a 280z (although I like the 240z more) with a light roll bar (with heavy padding) , 4 point harnesses,disc brakes,racing seats, and maybe some sort of side nerf bars? I am not exactly looking for a safe car, I am just trying to make an older car safer. Alex
The 1973 240Z has the same items noted in the list, it erroneously called or attributed to only 280Z's some of the features. Door beams started in 73, inertial reels on the seat belts started in 73, crash-rated bumpers above 2.5mph standard started in 73...
Anything on a 280Z is also on a 260Z, the earlier models having the same shock absorbers as the later cars, but with a lighter bumper structure.
Like John C said, there have been plenty of people with HARD crashes that walked away. Here is one where it was an offset-impact at 45+ mph, driver broke his collar bone where the three-point seat belt held him in the racing seat. No crumple zones? Think again! Not even an MSA SCCA-Legal Roll Bar behind the driver---that was slated for installation the following week! NOTHING! STOCK! Driver was unconcious from the impact, car went almost 3 feet in the air and bounced off the truck that hit him, spinning in mid-air. I was one car behind him when it happened. The gold truck behind him in the first photo is who hit him, coming from the RIGHT of the frame head-on offset. The Z basically pivoted mid-air in place where he got hit and ended up pointing to it's right as well (oriented from direction of first travel.) Another 240 went through this intersection 30 feet in front of him---that truck was HAULING and came over a rise QUICKLY! No brake action whatsoever. All stopping was done with energy dissipation from the collision. Actually a very neat study to examine...
Blow Up this photo and look closely at the GAUGE CLUSTER!
The Driver's hand SMASHED the dashboard, and took out the gauges!
He couldn't figure out how he had a fracture on his metacarpal.
That's how---found a week after the accident!
The Gold Truck is what hit him,
on the cross street. 4500# Versus 2200#,
simple Physics.
That Black Thing Embedded into the Z?
That's the entire energy-absorbing portion of the Toyota's
Bumper! The Z was NOT to be denied keeping the license
of 'The Truck That Hit Me!'
Probably the worst you can expect to have happen, in an EARLY Z-Car, and the driver was carted off with a broken collar bone. I have seen worse from larger vehicles with worse restraint systems. His head took out the driver's glass, and that is the suspect in his concussing/unconcious state. Side airbag may have mitigated that somewhat...but I have also seen a broken arm from it being across someone's chest when a steering wheel airbag deploys. The trick is: Don't Get Hit in the FIRST place!
Almost everything in the driveline was transferred to another 240 Chassis and is running to this day, put down 192HP at the MSA dyno day last April.
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The character in deathproof seemed to make out alright.
My god, we've sunk to the ZC.C level of using fictional characters in movies as engineering models for real life...
In that case, I suggest we all go out looking for the Datsun Equivalent of 'Christine' as then any sh*tter that gets in our way better watch out because Arnie Cuntingham and his mean Dodge will run them down and survive anything without a scratch. And the auto-drive ability comes in handy when your drunk off your arse as well...
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BRASS or tool steel! A hardened setscrew will be a pain to perforate!
I used setscrew as it was shorter than saying "brass internally-wrenched hex screw"!
A simple one can be made using a standard brass screw, drilling the center, cutting it off, and then using a hacksaw to cut a screwdriver groove in the top. Loctite or staking it in place will keep it from getting loose.
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As long as they are of comparable vintage 76---that is the year they swapped from small to large tanks.
Roughly Pre-6/76 tanks are the smaller size, Post 7/76 tanks are the larger size---so chances are good that a 1/76 production date car, and a 8/76 production date car will have a DIFFERENT tank. 7/76 and 12/76: Same. 4/76 and 5/76: Same.
Anything in the months of 6 & 7/76 should be visually verified...
But the 2+2 and Coupe take the same tank. It's just 76 was an oddball year for North American Production Z's.
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Satan, I think you got my point exactly!
TimZ: That Exhaust Manifold....that....Exhaust....Manifold...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!
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Just curious what do you do for a living?
Read the thread, I'm in it!
Actually I was going to PM you so as not to waste anymore space on this thread, but that horse is already out of the corral...
The friends you are collaborating with right now that assisted in your successful ventures---get used to them, 20 years from now, the group of you will likely STILL be collaborating. This is nothing new, and how it works. Established businessmen unwilling to venture their capital on young up-and-comers, so you do for yourself. Since the collaboration worked, you tend to go back to where you know and spurn other advances as you now trust the relationships.
This is quituply-important in Asia. It may be years even decades of working together and it gets to a point you don't even question what your supplier is giving you, or charging as they wouldn't breach the long-term committment you both have made to mutual benefit. It is very different than here in the USA, and VERY hard to get broken into without either a local agent with their own local connections, or an outstanding proven product that they approach you for brokering rights.
Don't be so quick to turn down old guys in Asia offering a relationship for distribution out of distaste for how they treated you when you were unproven in their eyes. You can do distribution on your own in Asia, but in most cases having a local agent with their own tendrils everywhere gets you a 10 year jump on the competition. I understand this because I'm Italian and we have something similar...
But this isn't anything new---take a look at 'first movies' of actors or directors. You will start to see the same guys working together throughout their careers. Clint Eastwood, Steve McQueen, or Paul Neuman are good examples---look at bit part players, they seem to surface all throughout their career consistently. Either the director liked how they worked together, or the "Star" liked how they worked together and wanted them for this part or that. Same in business. It's human nature.
Another Old Guy piece or advice: If they're a--holes now, it's not going to change. Pick them wisely, likely they will be with you for a LONG time, far longer than you think they will be!
Unless you radically change what you are doing. But that rarely happens.
Intimidation is not what it is, and trust me, the 'laughing' is something you will understand in about 20 years...it's not malicious or deprecating, it's just that once you see something enough times, you can expect it and predict it. It's actually pretty funny. That's what the 'laugh' is, more a chuckle that 'I've heard this before!'
But not from me, I knew this all when I was 16....
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Mustang yes.
240K not available in the USA sad to say...
Search on '510Six' and you will see a user here with the L6 conversion on his 510...
I would say the best '10' swap is a later Maxima Wagon, or the 810 wagon (earlier, but harder to find.)
I assisted in a Smog-Legal swap of one of these some years ago, and the guy is still running around in it! Very sleeperish, they never expect a Maxima Wagon (and if you get really spunky that live rearend swaps to a Ford9" really easy, just like a VG30ET in an RT43 Corona... (I'm shutting up now before the swap-gods punish me for crossbreeding species-al taboos!)
Make a 240z safer.
in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Posted · Edited by Tony D
"It's not really practical for Daily driving."
Actually, those seats are very comfortable for long term driving. You will find you don't get shoulder fatigue driving long distances. If the seat fits you, the need for 'cushion' is eliminated.
"My door bar idea was more to try to prevent the impactor from intruding too far into the cab."
As stated, this exists on all S30's from 73 onwards. Retrofit of 73 doors to earlier models will accomplish this in a proper manner, and not through some ham-fisted addition that will likely do more harm than good.
"So perhaps a combination of the two would make for a safer vehicle."
Perhaps? It's current standard design philosophy. The days of supposition or guessing are gone--it works and it's incorporated on all new vehicles currently sold here for street usage in the USA/North America.
"Now what type of foam to use? Regular expanding foam, "Great Stuff"?"
This gets to the complexity of design and engineering---FOAM is only one suggestion, you can not get blinders and fixate on semantics, the crash mitigation design of a car is a system integrated throughout the vehicle. Like I said, Volvo found rolled bits of cardboard tubing inside door handles dissipated energy very effectively. Stunt men routinely fall into corrugated boxes piled on the ground as they collapse at a know rate with a known surface collapse weight---if you have ever landed from height onto these boxes, it feels more like some big guy running into you and pushing you till you hit a wall softly instead of like falling out of bed onto the ground...WHUMP!
My suggestion of foam would ideally be some multi density stuff like rollbar padding, perhaps even stiffer like Ensolite or wrestling mat. It all depends on what body part you are intending for it to hit. Softer less dense foam in a layer nearest the extremity, with a layer of denser foam under that of a given thickness, and under that even more dense foam---like a progressive spring. Meaning when a small impact occurs, you 'bounce off' and no deformation of the panel occurs. Under heavier impacts, you could progressively compress the foams until the underlying sheetmetal is starting to deform from your 'immovable object' extremity working against the force of the impacting vehicle coming from the other way.
I would not use HARD foam like 'good stuff' as a primary impact agent. It will deform upon impact and will then require replacement. Like the foam inside a helmet --- ever look in there? Styrofoam! Same stuff you guy at home depot. Not particularly strong, but it WILL compress. Rollbar padding over that maybe... And a layer of thinner very soft foam or covering material for the door would all work to mitigate the impact.
I would stay away from anything you can't move with a HARD press of your thumb, or that doesn't somewhat spring-back. And stay away from anything that makes the doors underlying structure more rigid and unyielding. It needs to be able to move from external impacting vehicle, and from internal occupants which will hit it. It has to be harder than you think, as stuff too soft will not do anything. The soft layer is maybe 1-2mm just for 'comfort and abrasion' getting into and out of the vehicle or incidental contact. Gives the impression of a cushy interior, but underneath the harder foams or corrugated cardboard will actually provide the actual crash-crush structure. Take apart some Volvo Doors in the junkyard and you will be amazed at what is inside them! Rolls of cardboard tubing...Currugated cardboard and a stiff outer shell of the inner door panel---you hit the inner panel, the panel is sufficiently stiff to spread your impact out over the whole roll, and then the whole roll collapses acting as a decelleration/braking mechanisim. Very well thought out---and deceptively dangerous---after a crash people carp about inner door panels 'that look fine' being listed on the repair order---there is a reason: they are EXPENDED. They may LOOK fine (now they tend to fracture so the complaints go away...) but the integral crash structure is completely used in the accident and will not work for a second impact. Like a helmet---one use and throw away.
Kinda like the 240 in my photo...