Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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I think that $5K Budget is right in line with a Rebello Engine Long-Block...but you would have to ship it.
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I'm a really funny guy!
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Well, something else just got put on the 'to do list' for the visit in February...
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I got some 'hybridz' based link like someone posted them on the board then linked them. Odd. It seems to be working now from either source.
Give me SOME credit! I'm "Mr. Stolen Website Lurker" of the first degree when it comes to posted photos. I cringe when I see someone washed them like a lot of mine are: downloaded and then uploaded and show as 'hybrid' links only!
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"This is neither a good or bad thing, its just the way things are. "
Yep! The customer drive the market, then the customer complains about the market he gets!
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Wow, they stole a recipe. And then did a Milton Burle about it... "I know a good joke when I steal one!"
Strip to the waist and it's carving knives at noon in the cafeteria!
PMS is working overtime in that crewe!
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See that gap? Pry on it and your screws are revealed.
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Wow! Doubly important...
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"The manifold I have is made by TWM but its design doesn't take into account the starter circuit and lever on the rear of the DCOE for some reason...the linkage standoff gets in the way. "
That would be because TWM is a fuel injection outfit, and their manifold was designed to use their ITB's which merely are the universal Solex/Dellorto/Weber bolt pattern. They don't have the protruberances out back like the carbies do!
Weber does make a stamped-steel cad plated block-off plate for people eliminating that function. Most of this is covered in the various Weber Tech Manuals out there. Redline Weber online may be able to supply the pieces. It's pretty straightforward to eliminate it's function... lock the plungers down however you choose (there may be an 'elimination kit' available) and block (or not block) the area at the back where the lever and mounting casting formerly were.
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Generally yes.
You are now confusing flow with PSI tho... They are interrelated, but not directly as you would think. You don't pick a pressure ratio, IT PICKS YOU! Follow me here:
What you need to know is power needed/desired at that point---if you want 200HP you need the airflow in pounds per hour to support that horsepower.
You need to know the VE of the engine at that point, so you can calculate the perfect capability of the engine breathing.
Then, the disparity between what the turbo has to flow, and what the engine CAN flow will result in the PSI present in the manifold and therefore pressure-ratio you will need to run to accomplish your power goals.
You are looking at it from the back end of the equation.
First you need to determine horsepower, then determine fueling and air requirements, then actual engine efficiency, and where you would be on whatever map you choose.
The engine will only flow so much, the disparity between what it will flow and the flow required to make the power you want determines the PSI needed to reach that goal. THEN that pressure ratio will be charted on the map, and speed/flow balances can be determined. Personally I would shoot for the lower speeds at first if possible to move to the centermost portion of the map, and then where the map has the 'dogleg' on the left side, UP the turbine speed to the 110,721 to get the advantages of the higher pressure ratios. Really though the charted line overshoots the 'sweet spot' of the centermost island of efficiency. That is really where you want to operate the compressor.
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I'LL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT IT!!!
It happened this morning. I roll up to the Circle K, and this Highschool Boobalicious thing comes up with her BBF in some late model swarfmobile and chicky is eyeing my 260Z (The Blue Turd)...
As I roll out of the car (let's be honest...) she says "What kind of car is that?"
It's like a G-6 Kiddo! (I make the hand-motions like in the video while saying it...)
She immediately makes a little piggy noise (and my brain gets unclean thoughts...) and says to her BBF "See, it was! I thought it was! Just not shiny!"
So it already begins. I guess we are cool now since our cars are featured in a Video.
I heard the BBF say "What's a 'Datsun'? I never saw one of those before."
(Egads, and he's porking boobalicious piggy noise girl...youth is wasted on the young!)
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For every 'terrible chinese' story out there, I can give you an equally good story. I deal with suppliers in china, I was at our casting manufacturing facility on the 25th of October as a matter of fact. ASME code is ASME code, certification is certification.
MARKETING is what drives 'cheap', and when people want a CHEAP (they will say 'inexpensive') tool, there will be someone there to market it to them.
I am in the process of picking up 60X Pocket Loupes with dual light sources, true-white LED and UV LED (for Zyglo Dye Penetrant Inspection)---the units I found at a kiosk in songjiang were asking price $5 each (35 Yuan), bought two and tested them. Quickly ordered more if they could get them. In bulk we are now down to 20 Yuan...just under $3 each. What does something like this MARKET SELL for? Wouldn't have a clue, but likely for a damnsite more than $3, or even 10X that amount. Same goes for our castings. We market the Chinese Castings, but retain our American Suppliers for the 'No Chinese Content' customers. Do they have a justifiable reason? Well maybe... Then again, when they are using Sinopec for the construciton of their facilities you wonder why the anachronistic requirements?
There is SHITE OUT THERE FROM ANYBODY! To draw a broad brush across a whole Country of more than a billion people on the account of a handful of 'experiences'.... Yeah, I'd say it's Racist. China is mentioned, not a particular Chinese MANUFACTURER.
You are discriminating SOLELY on the basis of national origin with no other discriminatory criteria. Bad apples exist everywhere 'Made in Japan' meant 'cheap junk' when I was born...except for transistor radios and cameras. That list expanded quickly in the coming 10 years. The learning curve for each successive nation industrializing is shorter and shorter. Kia and Korean Cars is a great example. Now the next wave will not be China, it will be India. Stuff coming from there is routinely shite, doesn't meet spec, and in some cases is terribly, shockingly sub-par even when dealing with 'reputable' businesses. But it's sooooooo cheap you can live with it till they get up to speed.
My point being, just because it says "America" on it doesn't mean it's the best. And just because it says "China" on it, doesn't mean it's the worst.
"India"....I'm keeping my mouth shut and seeing what happens over the next five years. But from the past 10 dealing with the suppliers there the problems aren't getting resolved like they have been in China. And they should have had a much better base to start form if ethnocentric stereotypes are to be believed...
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I think the easiest route for a 400HP L6 is to pay Dave Rebello the $8000, and supply him the block and head, carbs and E-Motive HPV1 setup and go from there. In about 6 weeks (more or less) the crate show up with a dyno sheet and a completely tested, waranted engine...
That's how you get records at Bonneville, so Burton tell me! Do the math on Top Speed, CD, Frontal Area, Altitude at Competiton Point, and correct for sea-level and you will be amazed that the long block can be had so cheap...so easily!
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Link? Maybe I should put a stop on my list next visit...
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There are Z clubs in Cali, just search about a bit... So yeah looking pretty good, You need to pull off the rear bumper shocks and bumper cowel back there, it'll clean it up a bit. Who'd you have do your paint?
Empire Z meets tonight at the Dennys Parking lot in Ontario Mills Mall 8PM to whenever
I10 and the Milliken off ramp.
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what shop in Japan?
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Amen bro...
I lust for the TD27 or Direct Injected 3.0 Diesel option offered overseas!
I got 15mpg like clockwork in my petrol F250, and in the F350 diesel got 17.5 towing, loaded, or empty!
But it's not like I want to drive that hulk every day! Getting 35mpg from the diesels and having the small truck for everyday usage would be GREAT! Why can't Nissan/Ford/etc see this? I mean, they got Diesel RANGERS overseas...
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Wow, quick switch! First it's like off Studebaker and the 22, then it's downtown L.A....
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Neat!
By furniture precise, does this mean you are covering them in thick padding and foam with dead-animal topcoat to cover the gaps and unfinished interior components held together with more glue than is necessary?
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"Can cams be repaired? If so, who do you guys recommend?"
Paeco in Birmingham Alabama markets a hardfacing compound welded on journals and cam lobes (price of repair is based per lobe/journal)
The issue is whether or not you can get the orginal grind replicated! Racer Brown used assymetric lobe profiles and once welded over, if not shadow-profiled (Isky can do this...) and then properly programmed into the grinding machine will be lost forever.
It may simply be cheaper to map the specs as best you can, and then talk to Isky or Sunbelt about what grind they have available to approximate it. They are the only two that I know of that are currently grinding assymetric cam profiles for the L-Engine.
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"Within 4g a set" is what I would tolerate if I was a proponent (not merely an amused voter for) California's Proposition 19...
I agree, there are plenty of accurate drug scales out there (hey, c'mon, who ELES buys something that weighs fractions of a gram for gawd's sake!) that 0.5G tolerance is easily attainable. 4g / Set is some sort of raw produciton tolerance definately not what I'd 'slap in and run'...
As for Teflon Buttons, recall elsewhere I stated our Bonny engine walked the PRESSED IN pins, and that as a result of that little experience, we installed teflon buttons in the ends of our PRESSED IN pins!
As for the forged/cast pistons and floaters...The VW stuff formerly was ALL forged stuff, and recently they started selling cast pistons (crap) for them, which retain the floating pin design. Same for several other setups I am familiar with... what got me to state it was the "They are stock L28 length, and require floating pin. So you need to run forged pistons with these." Made it sound like you had to have forged pistons to run floaters, and since the rods are set up to run floaters, then you have to run forged to use the floaters... Obviously if you are running light rods, you don't want cast pistons because you will be twisting the engine somewhat tightly and cast won't cut it.
Forged is fun...
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I will take this in the order presented, and suggest 'What is Surge' sticky elsewhere... or maybe I should assume you read that already and is where you drew your conclusions?
Anyway, here goes:
Load created Compressor Surge = When the engine is requesting more air than the compressor is actually able to give, correct?
No, the situation you describe is 'Stonewall' and is to the lower right portion of the curve moving vertically paralell to the bottom horizontal axis, away from the surge line. The compressor will not surge in this situation, but will merely not produce boost. Air demand is not 'load', load on a compressor is ALWAYS flow+pressure. The more pressure, the lower the flow tolerated, the lower the pressure, the more flow will be generated till you hit Stonewall.
This is why if your compressor is too large for your application at lower RPM if you full throttle it your compressor isn't up to speed yet and you hit the surge limit. The engine is suddenly drawing more air than the turbo has to give, now you have flow separation.No, what is happening in that situation is the engine is INCAPABLE OF ACCEPTING the flow generated from the huge compressor, and as a result the pressure is too high for the stable minimum flow requirements, and the compressor surges. This would occur in the lower left of the compressor map rising vertically paralell to the vertical axis. In this instance, keeping the wastegate closed to speed up the compressor, and opening the BOV to induce more flow through the compressor would stabilize the flow and move the load point to the right away from surge. Pressure is vertical, flow is horizontal. Low flow moves you left, high flow right. Low pressure moves you down, high pressure moves you up. The speed intersecting curves throw these lines to a curve, but if you speed it up the compressor is capable of more pressure and more flow, so if you then VENT through the BOV overboard at that speed you don't move VERTICALLY on the axis and risk hitting the surge line, you move HORIZONTALLY to the right AWAY from the surge line. All commercial compressors will always VENT AIR when close to surge---inducing flow will ALWAYS move you out of a surge condition as it usually instantly moves the load point on the graph to the right, and usually down.
Throttle change Compressor Surge = When the throttle is rapidly shut under boost conditions, causing air to reverse and force air back to the compressor, causing the compressor to be pushing against an "unmovable object" if you're thinking about it in fluid dynamics (I think)Again, the mechanics of what happens when the throttle is suddenly closed is that 1) pressure rises -- movement vertically UP on the graph, & 2) flow drops or stops -- movement horizontally on the graph to the LEFT. You see that the combination of UP/LEFT puts you into the surge line quite quickly. In EVERY surge situation it's ALWAYS a movement UP/LEFT that will put you into surge. Some cases it's simply that the pressure the compressor is operating at is simply too high for the flow it generates (lower left corner of the map). When you rapidly shut the throttles your BOV should open to induce flow and keep the pressure from rising (move it straight to the right away from surge line) With the controlled BOV you would only open the BOV enough to add flow, but KEEP PRESSURE---a true horizontal right movement. Most BOV's now when they lift over-vent and as a result move to the right, as well as down vertically as the pressure drops. In either case, you move away from surge.
Now, I'm understanding (I think) why you don't need a second BOV. I believe this is because your BOV won't suddenly "close" or "open" just because you closed the throttle.
On a conventional BOV It WILL. A proper BOV would open at the SLIGHTEST change of throttle position to allow the load point to move along a 'flat line' to the right, keeping a constant pressure (vertical orientation) and keeping the turbo away from surge. For a PID controlled BOV when the throttle was quickly closed, the BOV will OPEN and move the load point right. When the throttle is suddenly OPENED you would see the load point move vertically down, but the BOV at that point would either already be closed, or SLOSE in phase to move the load point up (maintaining pressure) and depending on where you are on the map, may stay open to keep the load point away from surge by venting air and inducing flow (movement right along the horizontal axis).
But if you're at a peak PSI for a given RPM and you slam the throttle shut, the PSI will increase as your RPM's are dropping, and this will throw your BOV into an area of the map that it'll open anyways... correct?
This is only possible with the PID controlled BOV---and is why I mentioned it. A conventional BOV will open under those conditions because it's ported to the manifold and when the manifold goes under vacuum it will overide the spring and open as it's signalling the BOV that the throttle is closed. During normal movements of the throttle the BOV if it is a simple spring type, and not ported to the manifold would do nothing and is totally pressure based. That is why it would surge in the first example you gave---it only knows 25psi, and won't lift until then.
And for surge line following.... I'm thinking that in order to prevent surge, accord to how it's programmed, you'd be OPENING the BOV to let air IN if you're in surge terretory. IE: You're at 1000rpm in 5th gear and you opened the throttle to WOT. This would allow air into the engine bypassing the turbo acting as a restriction at this point, and then using that exhausted air to spool the turbo.
Nope, now you are talking 'compressor bypass valve' and a different function altogether. That would be for N/A operation. A BOV is PURELY a venting device, and not a bypass around the compressor. A PROPER conventional BOV would act like this if ported to the manifold---and ducted to the intake tract between the air filter and turbo inlet. Most aren't like that. In that case, before boost threshold, the compressor bypass valve is open to remove load on the turbine wheel to let it speed up quicker. Once any boost is present the Compressor Bypass Valve (which is really what they should have...) will CLOSE, and if ANY change in throttle position is affected, will open to either vent pressure and bypass the turbo. The old Cartech Systems have VERY GOOD BOV/Compressor Bypass Valves. If there was one thing Corky Bell did right was make a damned good BOV/Bypass Valve. They DO NOT sound like BOV's today---they are 'sigh' valves. If you hear the old original Wangan Midnight S30, you can hear the Bypass Valve sighing all the time. Lifting to keep ANY pressure rise from happening in the intake tract on even the slightest lift-throttle situation.
Once the turbo is into non-surge area it will be creating PSI and the BOV will close to follow your requested PSI/RPM data.As explained above that is proper Compressor Bypass/BOV operation. That is NOT how 99% of them on the market today operate. They just dump pressure on drop throttle. They do not perform the bypass function. And that was the direction I was going, you have to give up the bypass function with a PID controlled BOV/Wastegate secenario. But this is not bad, since the paradigm for control is totally different. The bypass valve is predicated on parasitic loss reduction and bypassing the turbo to let it spool. That is because the wastegate is open in this situation and the turbine speed is slowing. When the wastegate is controlled to STAY CLOSED and ONLY open upon reaching an optimum speed, then ALL control can be done off venting! You would use a smaller hot-side A/R than on a conventional wastegate setup as you look to generate speed at the LOWEST possible rpm, and then control air on it's own. You can always bypass more exhaust gas if your A/R is too small, but it's impossible to generate full boost at off-idle conditions when you conventioanlly size the hot side A/R to handle peak RPM flow through the exhaust turbine. Look at Big Phils GT35R, he went with a .82 hotside to stop a low rpm surge issue when he had the .63 A/R hotside. The also lost boost response down low. With the PID controller, you don't loose it down low! You keep insanely low boost threshold (say 1500 rpms) and still can use a turbo that flows big air for top end feeding of the engine. If you need more exhaust area, open the wastegate(s)!
You did read 'what is surge' right? A lot of this sounds familiar to me...
Looking back at the dyno you posted in the other thread, I believe they could have had full PSI much sooner, but they've tapered it the way they have in order to make the power more usable and come on smoother.
Yes, it's for drivability, absolutely! And you can then see this is not really a 'new' idea, just one not widely applied because of the tuning complexity. I ran a T3/4Hybrid on my car with a 0.48 A/R. I could generate 20psi at 1700rpms. I also had 265's out back... And to keep this compressor working when stabbing and lifting at 2000-3000rpms I had to have VERY responsive BOV. This would be an 'abberant' sizing for the A/R, but my compressor was not THAT oversized. It would natural surge at 25psi, so 20 was my limit. But now with this kind of control, I could run that SAME 0.48 A/R on the hot side, coupled to a GT35R wheel to produce 25psi at 1500rpms (ball bearings baby, gotta love em!) and simply vent all that extra flow overboard to keep from low-flow surging below the point where the engine demands could take stable flow off the turbine wheel. This was Phils issue, surge in the midrange, but not on the top end. By having a BOV vent during this period, you would MAINTAIN the 25psi for power production (the turbo can make the air, the reason it's surging is because you are too far LEFT on the curve for your vertical point) and not do what the 'fuzzy logic' controllers do (boost per rpm)---they would drop your psi at that point to move you vertically away from the surge line, then raise it afterwards. This gives a power dip, whereas by simply venting excess air and stabilizing flow you maintain the power curve from 25psi! Turbochargers are odd in that you have variable speed wheels and various rise to surge points. By limiting wheel speed to an optimum point, control becomes easier as the points you have to worry about decrease. Natural surge point is the pressure at which the compressor won't produce any more pressure---that is for a given speed. Same as low-flow surge, for a given speed there is only so little flow the wheel will tolerate, it can be looked at as 'natural surge' in that respect, because at that point it can't make any more pressure. What the control system must do is always make sure the compressor can flow enough air across it to keep stable flow. I digress...
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Yeah, it's pretty straightforward, a line in and out...some guys 't' on a remote filter setup, or use an oil cooler sandwich plate to get full-port dumpage of the oil. When oil pressure drops below what the precharge pressure is set at, the accusump sumps.
I use it because I trashed a turbo... But a prelube is another idea it's popular for, especially when you have a high compression engine which really puts a load on the rod bearings at startup till oil pressure builds.
There was some portions in the book regarding oil passage blending in the oil pump...taking out the sharp edges, making the ports match. I think it was in the oil pump section actually. Been a while. Basically the same stuff you do on any engine Chevy, Ford, Toyota...it's not rocket science, all standard prepping a blueprinting stuff. The deburring of sharp drilled holes will really help flow into and out of the pump. The real increase comes from an external pickup line -10 in size to the adapter for the pump, plugging the internal galleries, and then feeding by another large AN nose from the pump to the center of the oil filter---removes all the dinky passeges in the block that restrict pickup and feed in the engine.
Makes adding that accusump easy, too!
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Floating piston pins are not always forged. This is not a criteria for running floating rods/pins.
Has anyone gone from 60 mm TB BACK to stock?
in Nissan L6 Forum
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"ARRRGH!"
"PSI" "PSI" "PSI"
The TURBO CURSE!
NO NO NO NO NO!
A larger, more efficient engine WOULD NOT "use less PSI"!
Listen, and FOLLOW CLOSELY:
An L28 stock will take X POUNDS PER HOUR of fuel and air to make 300HP.
An L28 with an Isky cam and Ported Heads will still take X POUNDS PER HOUR of fuel and air to make 300HP.
"PSI" is NOTHING but an indication of RESISTANCE TO FLOW.
"PSI" does not give you HORSEPOWER!
"FLOW" gives you horsepower. It's Pounds per HOUR.
"PSI" is a static measurement, nothing more. You can have 8psi coming out of a T28 and 8psi coming out of a T56... which do you think will support more horsepower? They are both "PSI"
The larger, more efficient engine will SHOW LESS "PSI" as it's restriction to flow is less, and therefore will work in a different pressure ratio zone than a smaller engine which may be less efficient, or simply have a reduced runer diameter restricting flow.
In EVERY example you gave above, the SAME turbo on EACH engine would HAVE to flow the pounds-per-hour necessary to get 400HP from the engine. The airflow will be exactly the same (for these purposes). Because of differing flows through the engine though, the pressure ratio it operates at will be dictated by the resistance each individual engine takes to FLOW that air into the combustion chamber. If it's restrictive, then yes the PSI may raise. Likely you will see more PSI on the 1.6 than the 5.0...
A prime example of this is JeffP's engine, making 380ft-lbs of torque at 4000-4500rpms at 8.39psi of boost.
Take a look at what a stock engine takes to get there (with a near stock turbo) 16-18psi? But what if that is a GT35R on there same as Jeffs? Then you have a big-phil style surge issue in the midrange because the engine simply doesn't FLOW enough air to support the minimum flow requirements for the turbo when it's spinning at whatever speed it is---it supplied more air than possible for the engine to digest. So boost builds. Problem is boost builds realllly high, and due to the flow restriction of the engine at 3800-4800 rpms, the turbo experiences midrange surge at 25psi. It does not at 17psi.
A ported head and cam would/could solve this---letting more flow in and keeping stable flow at that pressure...but because it FLOWS MORE the PSI SEEN will be LOWER. It's a double-edged swort, you flow more and lower your pressure ratio because the turbo puts out the same flow, but now you are using more. Pressure drops, flow rises, you make more power, and you don't surge...
A larger exhaust housing will help, only because the turbo slows down, pushing less air, and maybe matching the engine's needs better. Problem is at the top end you may have lost something...and for SURE on the bottom end you lost boost threshold and made the engien 'more peaky'.
Had a BOV system like we've been discussing been implemented, the engine in it's stockish form could then TAKE 25psi without surging (excess venting to stabilize flow at that pressure ratio and turbine speed) and therefore make more power than previously because you had to turn it down to 17 to prevent it form surging. In fact, you could downsize the wheel on the turbine to up the wheel speed allowing HIGHER pressure ratios, and more flow consequently (normally this would mean more boost pressure, and it does, but in the former iteration you couldnt' do that, you would SURGE SURGE SURGE. Now you can dump excess air, and run a higher psi and flow into the engine than formerly possible.
Confusing, no? And I'm swamped at work and can't concientiously log on tomorrow because I HAVE to get more paperwork done! It may be monday before I get back on here, realistically...