blackwidow

check crank trueness, I'm sure if it is an awesome shop they checked it, but its something that could cause that along with a lack of oil, viscosity, pressure, or otherwise. Back up on this?

ok i'm a dumbass should have known better on that one. you figured I would retain at least a little bit after all the reading i do. My only defense is time of hour. Sadly enough anyway. Continue on as if I was never here.

deleted for dumb assedness late at night

Wow, nice work beginning to end. I probably will be starting an n/a engine build myself here pretty soon but only looking for a nice streetable 220whp. 1. I am amazed at the drop off on that cam pic. 2. You asked about coatings, if you havent already found it by now look up WPC treatments for your next go around. The benifits to dollar ratio is very nice, and can be used on anything from engine bearings to ring and pinions in diffs. 3. Itb's = better power curve and all the good things on a track that come with it. http://extrudabody.com/ Kevin is a pretty good guy and don't forget you can reclaim some of the cost by selling the triples. 4. Me = jealous of your car at the moment. Very nice.

Thanks, its nice to have hands on info from someone on the borard. I will peek around and see what i can find. Otherwise i will message a mod to change it. Yours came out of a GTR model, right?

Are you using the open element IAT sensor?

I'm sorry if it has been mentioned already but when and where are these test being performed if someone wanted to be a spectator. Thanks

I added this for manual shift points as it kind of goes along with what is being disscussed here. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=140122

First off there are two things you need to find the optimal shift point. 1. a dyno plot of the torque curve your engine puts out 2. all the gear ratios you will be shifting through 3.(optional) is the differential gear, the reason this is optional is that the gear never changes which makes it a constant that does not effect where you need to shift. But i will show you why it is fun to have. All the math I give you is pretty simple. It is just that the process is lengthy. Finding true torque. The equation for this is Flywheel torque x gear ratio you are in. for example if you are making 150 lbs of torque at the flywheel and have a first gear of 3.549, and second gear of 2.197. 150 x 3.549=532.35 You are making 532.35 lbs in first. 150 x 2.197=329.55 You are making 329.55 lbs in second. As you see here as your gear ratio drops you don't make as much torque. Which is why your car doesn't pull as hard in 2nd as it does in 1st, and so on all the way through the gear box. Now for some real fun. These numbers are to our theoretical drive shaft. Now lets take into account the optional differential gear. And put in 20% drivetrain losses. For ease i'll use the numbers from above with a diff. gear of 3.9:1. (flywheel torque)x(gear ratio you are in)x(final drive ratio)x(.80) 150 x 3.549 x 3.90 x .80= 1660.93 lbs at the wheels Now if you didn't know before this is what you are really seeing at the rear wheels. Now the next time your friends ask what your making at the rear wheels, tell them the real number. For reference your dyno plot to the wheels already has the drive train loss in so use the same equation but without the drivetrain loss on the end. Finding RPM drop when shifting The equation for finding RPM drop is gear your shifting into ---------------------- x RPM before shift = RPM after shift gear your shifting from If your shifting from 1st(3.54) to second(2.197) at 7000 rpm it would be 2.197 ------- x 7000= 4333.33 rpm 3.549 So you would be at 4333.33 RPM after the shift. Pretty easy stuff. Making the graph and finding the best shift Now lets take our math we have learned so far and put it to use. Take the formulas i have given you and make a chart so that you can see shifting points and torque numbers for the corresponding shift(ie. first to second). now i am going to use MONZTER's dyno plot from the N/A engine setups with dynos and the gear ratio's from a factory 240z 4 speed as my examples. You can find the dyno plot here in this post http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139485 , and the gear ratios here http://www.geocities.com/z_design_studio/transmission.html Start at your red line and go down 1200 rpm in 200 rpm intervals, charting your rpm start and drop, and your torque start and drop side by side. Along with the drop in torque from the shift. First column is 1st gear rpm Second column is 1st gear torque at rpm Third column is torque diffrence before the shift Fourth column is 2nd gear torque at rpm Fifth column is 2nd gear rpm after the shift Sixth column is torque loss after the shift Seventh column is torque diffrence after the shift 7200..... 514.61..... -107... 369.10..... 4456 ....-145.51 .....+157 7000..... 550.10..... -71..... 336.14..... 4333 ....-213.96 .....+89 6800..... 578.49..... -43 .....329.55..... 4209 ....-248.94 .....+54 6600..... 596.23..... -25 .....318.57..... 4085 ....-277.43 .....+25 6400..... 603.33..... -18 .....318.57..... 3962 ....-284.76 .....+18 6200..... 610.43..... -11 .....307.58..... 3838 ....-302.85 .......0 6000..... 621.08........ 0 .....318.57..... 3714 ....-302.43 .......0 So now that we have our first to second shift chart lets find that perfect shift point. The key to finding the best place to shift is to find the point at which you lose the least amount of torque during the shift without losing to much forward momentum before the shift. I do this by comparing the torque diffrence before the shift( Which goes with your forward momentum) and the torque diffrence after the shift.On this particular setup I think he should shift right around 7000-7100 RPM, if he had the gearing I used here. While there are less torque losses after the shift above this rpm, you have to much torque drop off before the shift, which causes a loss of the forward momentum you were building. Once you find what you think is the optimal shift point vary it up and down about 400 RPM to find what suits you best. Oddly enough most drag racers have a rule of thumb that the best shift point is 10% beyond peak horsepower. Which if you look at his graph is is right around 7100 RPM. But you should take this as a coincidence and do the math yourself.On his setup he said his redline is 8000 RPM but he needs to shift well before that. What this shows is just because you can rev to 8000 doesn't mean you should shift there. Now take this info and do every gear shift in your setup. Plus don't forget that since the ratios change from gear to gear the best place to shift in one gear might be different than where to shift in the next. But it should be pretty close. After I did this I found this was went over on someons page but I don't think it elaborated as much, but just for more reading you can find it here http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/whentoshift.htm . I hope it helps some people out.

I love whats happening here and as soon as my car is up and moving I will be doing some aero mods myself. But i like the lines and Cd of my other girl at the moment. .31 from the factory and easily into the 20s. I wish I was keeping it:biggrin:

Horsepower is about a dozen diffrent units depending on what your using it to measure. One day it will be fazed out by the watt. Untill then it will be diffrent things depending on what you are using it to measure. As far as IC engines are concerned you cannot have HP without torque. Period In any case one is more important than the other in certain circumstances. And should be looked at on a per application basis.

If you got it from a dealer could you tell me which one? I have read on other forums that this happens sometimes but it is the cedric/gloria helical diff that they are selling as the S15 one. We might could just start asking the supplier for cedric/gloria R-200 helical diffs if we could track down whoever the supplier is.

So let me get this straight you say you have a s15 helical and the standard 29 spline 240sx shaft fit the helical. Is this correct? If it is it goes against what I have in the first post. Are you for sure it is the standard helical that came from the s15?

Nice install so far. I love that engine had seen a couple apart in front of me and they are built like a mac truck. Not only that they last like a diesel. I had a sc400 not to long ago, great car. Should be a nice reliable ride with some get up and go when you are done. nice job:icon14:

Ok so I have been getting some info together for some drivetrain upgrades I am going to be doing into my recently purchased 73 240z. I have searched and this is what I have come up with as far as nissan diff centers to be swaped into an r-200 s15 short nose R-200 helical- 30 spline cedric/gloria R-200 helical - 29 spline 240sx short nose R-200 open- 29 spline 280z & zx long nose r-200 open- 29 spline z31t long nose r-200 lsd- 29 spline n/a z32 short nose r-200 open- 29 spline z32tt R-230 lsd- 30 spline 90-96 Q45 short nose r-200 lsd - 30 spline 89 R32 GT-R CLSD R-200 - 30 spline r30 skyline longnose R-200- 29 spline Now then if you will notice that from the info I have dug up the gloria r200 hlsd uses the same splines/size as the longnose r-200 out of a z. So this unit should be more of a direct swap with great nissan quality. So my question is has anyone outside of this country ever seen one of these cars in the junker and can possibly confirm what is above. Also if anyone can add to the list I will update it in this post for an easier search. Thanks

Thanks for leading it off MONZTER. I like the numbers 210 hp out of 2.4L. Just for clarification +1 is mm right, and do you have any leads on the big dip in the 3700RPM range?

I searched but couldnt find anything so I don't know if this has been done before. I would like to start a thread where people put up there engine combos, and dyno numbers, or 1/4 mile MPH plus weight. Trust me everybody I understand that the 1/4 mile and weight is only an estimate of power, but a lot of people have not had there cars on the dyno and have pretty good setups. I have seen many threads of people asking what this or what that setup does only to be told to search. I have been one of these people who have searched and searched only to come up with little bits and peices of the info I need. It would be nice to have one thread where many diffrent combos can be looked over to find something that represent what your setup will do. To keep everything in check these are the things that should be listed, with examples of each- Engine size= 2.8l Engine work done= Blanced and blueprinted Compression Ratio= 10.5 Head= n-47 Head work done= Shaved .010, with port matching on the intake and exhaust Cam= American cams regrind .490/280 Intake= ITB setup from extrudeabody on a Weber DCOE Intake work done= Matched to intake ports Header & Exhaust= 621 header, with full 2/12" into a straight through muffler Type of Fuel control= Megasquirt Type of Ignition control= Megasquirt with EDIS 6 Rev Limit= 7,500 Accessories= Alt, A/C, Power Steering Dyno HP= 185.7 @ 5252 RPM Dyno Tq= 185.7 @ 5252 RPM Insert dyno graph here:burnout: If doing times with MPH please also list 1/8 mile= 8.5 @ 75 MPH 1/4 mile= 13.9 @ 100 MPH Diff Ratio= 4.11 Vehicle Weight= 2400 LBS I would like to keep this a N/A thread as I don't want this to be a HP shoot out. If you want to go turbo look up whats engine is close to yours and do the math to get possible HP. If you can't do the math you probably shouldnt be going turbo. If anyone else can think of things to add that would help please let me know and I will edit this first post. And for people posting their setup please fill out everything so we can have the most info possible. Then we can see what parts make a diffrence. Once again I realize that this will not be a set in stone "you will get this from this" but it should get us in the ball park. Also I am going to try and make a Cams guide. Not how they work, thats a book, but whats avalible. If anyone has the cam card that came with their cams and can send me the specs so I can collect them, that would be awesome.

Was that directed toward me? I think i already put that same info in another thread about tilting the radiator. I think you missunderstoodwhat I was saying as i was talking about choking the flow to the motor not through the rad. I totaly agree with what you said above though.

Was wondering what happened to this thread? Sounds like intresting stuff, but is there suppose to be some pics? Also as far as negitive underhood pressures go. Dont forget to duct in some good air for your motor or you could cause flow problems for the motor when it needs it most. I have seen motors get choked out with ducts in the wrong places. EDIT""" Sorry I found it.

Havent been able to track down the pics yet but here is what I'm talking about with the low pressure zone to use for the radiator/intercooler if you have one. http://www.up22.com/Aerodynamics.htm about in the middle of this doc you will sea pic show natural low and high pressure areas on most cars. There is usually always one on the front tip of the hood. That is where you would make your outlet. Plus that page is pretty informative for people new to aero. EDIT::::This is another intresting article. http://autospeed.com/cms/A_108656/article.html?popularArticle I think my pics of this being done to a Mk1 Mr2 were on my old laptop that took a crap on me. I had lots of good things on that laptop that I am having to find all over again, but now i have an external hard drive. To everyone that has lots of info that you have many many hours researching into the wee morning, kinda like me now, i would reccomend a external hdd to back up your info every once in a while. Anyway in the article he states that some of the tufts will stand straight up and some will even point backwards to the way you think the flow would be going. Pretty neat stuff if anyone has any spare time with their z.

your right olie sorry about that. I will go back and delete my posts if needed. let me know.

Let me see if i can find the pics, but i have/had pics of a car doing this and where there should be low pressure zones the strings were pointing toward the sky as if something was sucking them up.

you can tape wool strings all over the area you want to know about. you will notice diffrent patterns from the high and low pressure zones

Ha, bet they changed their tune then. You should have got a picture:mrgreen: So were those problems the reason you only got 190 on the first go round. They seemed kind of low since now, if you numbers keep progressing in a linear fashion, you are looking to max around the 320 area just like roostmonkeys nice plot. Nice job

No:( no B.S.M.E yet. I havent been able to finish it, because I was always being sent off in the middle of the semester with the military. It wouldnt hurt my average, but i couldnt complete any courses. And I cant do online courses, i'm just not the kind of person that can do them. So i just decided to wait till I was out to get back to it, it kept killing me to do 1/2 a semester of work only to get no credit. And that happened three times:evil: And personally I really don't want a job doing anything with the degree, I just want it for my own personal uses. Plus i kind of have a gig already set up out there but its kind of like a when i want to work kind of thing. Thats why I said part time job at a shop. Don't really need a lot of money just would like to work in a real performance shop, as we have none of that in my neck of the woods.