SuperDan

BTW, my new "Z" will be there! :lmao: :lmao: Inside joke! Dan

Come on Alex, there is nothing like a long coast ride during the spring / summer to make you feel like a man again

John's getting married? ... well now, that explains alot doesn't it.

Anyone have experience with these? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10076&item=4553602905&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW The searching I have done so far is not comming up with alot.

Huh huh, huh huh. Im there dude

Kinda, it's still in a small block package though. Or just go here to order when it becomes available http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=1412&Category_ID=2&src=gglls7

Ok, all is right in the world again. Air hammer is the key BTW. Thanks again for your help Tim

Got 1 $%##@ out, but the other &@#$! %#&@! is one stuck !@)$#&@!!!

Sezied @#$%& pieces of $%&*@! %@#&! #@^% !@)$_$@. ##@& cutting torch and the T^&!!^# #@^&*!!!!!!!

Thursday night HOT chat http://forums.hybridz.org/FlashChat/flashchat.php

One little caveat to that is. Donating members are not required to wait the 14 days or have a minimum number of posts. Also, there seems to be some confusion about 2 things: 1. Ads are free, there is no fee for placing one.(I know it's a little confusing with the email you may get when your ad is deleted) 2. An asking price IS REQUIRED, even though the software gives you the option to select "Best Offer". I need to remove that option when I get a chance.

You had a Corvair? I had a 66 Corsa 180hp... you know Turbo baby!

I would really like to see any pictures that you have. SU intakes kinda of puzzle me. This is equal length runners? But this is not?

Sorry if I came off as if I was bashing SU's... that was not what I was trying to do or say. Rather, no one is really defending the 4bbl setup with any technical data or explanations... just here say for the most part. And, I did not see your lawnmower post so my use of it was just coencidence.

Nice try, you are not pulling me back into this thread . If you want to continue this some more please start a new thread and I will address your responses.

Maybe, only time will tell

Well, as I said above, I think EGT it is not a very good tool to measure the A/F ratio of individual cylinders. Way too many variables could affect the EGT of each cylinder with A/F ratio only being one of them. Things that could vary from cylinder to cylinder like ignition timing, true cylinder volume, hot spots in the head/block, radiated heat from the exhaust manifold etc. etc. etc. I agree that EGT is a great tuning tool and helps you look into what is going on inside the engine and allows you to find problems and correct them, I was not saying it was not. But, here is my problem. One of the great advantages that the triples (since we seem to be talking about them and not SU’s anymore) have over the 4bbl and even the SU’s is the ability to adjust the A/F ratio etc for each cylinder, and along the same train of thought the ability to mask or cover up other problems / deficiencies on a per-cylinder basis. As mentioned on other threads I too feel that the over enthusiastic converts that feel that the 4BBL conversion is the end all solution to poor carburetion… I myself do not believe this either. You have a multitude of scenarios that can be pro or con. A few examples that come to mind are. Dude has a car with a healthy L6 in it. Good compression and mechanically in great shape but the old SU’s are shot. He buys a 4bbl intake, slaps his favorite type of carb on it and bam! It’s running bitchen. Of course it will compared to a worn out set of SU’s but the advantage goes to the 4bbl in this case. Same scenario as above except that he gets himself a nice set of Z-Therapy rebuilt SU’s, slaps them on. Advantage SU’s. Another scenario and one that has been brought up before and I think really is what gives the 4bbl a bad rap. Dude has car that runs like crap, engine is just worn out and compression is all over the map, lot’s of factors here that could be causing this but I will just make up one for the sake of argument. He makes adjustments to the stock SU’s to get it to run for the most part. The ability to tune 2 separate banks with the SU’s my even play into this, if let’s say for example 1 or 2 cylinders are way down on compression and they are the 2 near the fire wall then by adjusting that carb he could in theory get the car to run ok… kinda. He gets feed up and convinces himself that the carbs are the problem and goes out and buys a 4bbl setup, slaps it on. I don’t think it will take a PhD to figure out what is going to happen next. Now, he is really PO’ed throws the 4bbl in the trash can and buys some nice rebuilt SU’s, tunes it, car runs better, well of course it does, getting rid of the worn out SU’s should help the situation (but could even make worse in some cases) but having the ability to mask an underlying problem by tweaking the individual carbs is just a cover up, the problem is still there and will need to be addressed. One of my favorite phrases that I hear a lot about SU’s just crack me up “… they are such a simple design and so easy to tune” You have got to be kidding me? What the hell have I been thinking all this time? You are so right, a very old simple designed carb must be far superior to a new modern day type of carburetion. Hell, EFI is so complicated it must be a complete P.O.S. also…. I really wish I could find a carb large enough for my car that uses the same simple design that my lawnmower engine has. All right, enough of the sarcasm. At this point I feel like I need to bow out of this thread because I hijacked it from Mike (Stroker 3.0Z) and would like to apologize to him because his original question was regarding triple carbs and not 4bbl carbs and I took this in another direction. The reason jumped on this is because I am getting sick of hearing claims from people about problems with 4bbl applications that have no technical merit behind it. TonyD, thanks for the info you have provided as it has given me a lot to consider and the fact that you have done testing that compares different setups is a breath of fresh air and I would to hear more about what you had found with regards to above 6500 rpm performance… very good info so far. BTW, yes I do have an ArizonaZ 4bbl intake, but that only has a little to do with my opinion on the subject. So far the car runs fantastic but… I have not done enough testing and tuning as I have all the suspension out right now for a full rebuild. As soon as I get it back together I plan on working with my intake setup and will share my finding for those who are interested. Thanks, Dan

Ok, fair enough. But. The ArizonaZ manifold is a dual plane manifold. My understanding has been (and I am in no way an expert) that useing EGT sensors are a stone-age way of measuring A/F ratio. I mean what does a 100 deg variation translate into?

Im speechless.

Interesting. Doug had mentioned that the put their new Stealth Ram injection on one off the test motors, tuned it using a single WB O2 and were seeing a ~15% A/F ratio variance between cylinders at varied rmps. He did not elaborate on what was the cause. Thinking back to it, I think the point of his post was to point out that even though you may have a setup that should have an even distribution of Air and Fuel that there are a lot of other factors that can also have a big influence on this, as you pointed out John. Without some kind of EGT, WBO2 etc test equipment how would you ever really now you are getting the most out of your engine? Lots and lots and lots of trial and error and speculation I suspect.

New users have to wait 14 days before they are allowed to post in the classifieds section. Abuse of our forsale area have forced us to do this to help prevent people from just registering to sale somthing then never bother to come back or delete their ad.

Can you please provide some more information on this? I have been doing my own searching and have not come up with anything so far... links? I remember a post a while back on Chevytalk and DougF who works for Holley and is the resident EFI guru over there posted some information about central mounted carbs on V8 engines. They have a new tool that they are using that uses 8 WB O2 sensors located on each exhaust port. He was blown away by the different A/F ratio's between them, worst case was something like 10.5 - 14.1. And this was tuned by one of there Holley gurus and the engine was running perfect! I wish I could find that post again, very informative. I emailed him back then and he said they tried allot of different combinations of manifolds and carburetion / EFI. The results were all over the map, some good, some bad. In the final analysis the type of air-fuel mixing device (they tested there own Holley carbs, Edelbrock carbs and the Commander 950 TBI) was not a factor in fuel distribution… it really came down to manifold design. Obviously MPI was a completely different story, they were able to tune down to a .5 A/F between cylinders. So, some of the members on this forum are just waiting there life’s away with their current career paths. The ability to look at a manifold / Air-Fuel Mixer and determine it’s ability to evenly distribute this between cylinders is a god given gift, you need to stop what you are doing a go to work for a auto manufacturer. I know I am coming off a little harsh but understand I am just playing devil’s advocate here. I really want to see some data on this. It does not even need to be a Nissan L6 motor, any inline 6 will do where someone has tested the A/F variances per cylinder for different types of manifold / carb designs using a setup similar to what Doug was talking about. Do I believe there is an issue with fuel distribution on 4bbl intake manifold? I sure do. Do I believe there is a fuel distribution with the SU setup using stock manifolds? Sure do. What I would like to know is how much and what cylinders are affected and is the variance that large. Yes, hard data would be nice. Not a couple of knobs on SpeedVision racing 2 different cars against each other.

Ill be the first to use it.

?... maybe

You are well on your way to being escorted out of here.... just thought you should know.