Andrew Bayley

Highpsiguysz, Good luck on the final install. As for your transmission selection, I ran a TH-350 for about three years behind my 350 V8 in a ’77 280Z. At 60mph I was turning about 3000rpm. I was using a 215/60/R14 which was supposed to be a 24 inch tire, but the narrow rim shortened it to about 23 inches. Cruising around town (below 60mph) this combo worked fine. However, freeway driving left a lot to be desired. Back in 1997, I drove this setup from Detroit to the Z convention in York PA (about 500 miles). Crawling along at a measly 65mph, I must have blown at least 4 quarts of oil out the breathers (from an engine with 5000 miles) and the temp gauge never got below 200ºF. Gas consumption was also rather horrendous. Coming home from that same trip, a piece of overpass decided to implant itself in the TH-350 and permanently retire it. I saw this as an omen to step up to a 700R4. As for a lockup converter, I know of a few 3 speed non-overdrive transmissions that have lockup converters... but I was (am) not aware of any TH-350 that have this option. I feel it is my duty to warn people about the crappy torque converters that were used in the 80’s. To meet CAFÉ (corporate average fuel economy) standards, the big three would install very tight converters that would allow cars to move at very low engine speeds. This does a little bit for economy (remember, in the 80’s American automobiles were playing catch up and they needed anything they could get), but absolutely sucks from a performance standpoint. After removing my TH-350 with a 2200 stall converter and swapping in a 700R4 with the OEM converter, my 0-60 times INCREASED by half a second! Ouch!!! It was all off the line and it was waaay noticeable. Stall speed decreased to about 1500 rpm. Eventually I pulled the OEM converter and replaced it with a 3000 rpm stall lockup unit. My hole shot returned to what it was with the TH-350 and the numbers actually showed a better 0-60 than the old three speed. Do your Z and yourself a favor... invest in a converter! As for spending $800 on a 700R4, I’d shop around a bit. I had my 700R4 pulled out of an 87 Z28 for a mere $250 from a local bone yard. With a $20 shift kit and a 3000rpm converter, I’ve never had any problems (and I drive the pi$$ out of it!!!) The only thing that kind of sucks about the 700R4 is the price of converters. My 3000rpm set me back over 3 bills while the 2200rpm for the 3-speed was only around $100. I can totally relate to low dollar build ups, but an overdrive was something I could not live without. IMHO, overdrive is what made my Z streetable. However, the TH-350 is a great CHEAP alternative. ...just don’t plan on setting land-speed records with a 3-speed (I’d hit the 6000rpm rev limiter at 110 mph, with the 3.54 R200) Good luck -Andy

...maybe the calibration lab at Autometer is just permanently under some extreme high pressure system (causing all the +3 psi error). I guess I shouldn't have been so rough on the old Autometers. I've got six Phantom gauges in my Z bringing my Autometer total up to 10. They all seem acurate and haven't failed yet. I guess the boost gauge thing kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Don't even get me started on SunPro's.... -Andy

...that's odd. Usually Autometer is worse than other aftermarket gauge manufacturers. Ever tried to buy a boost/vacuum gauge from them? I've seen them sit around 3psi at ambient pressure. Hmmm... I'd say thst's off a bit. Funny side note, the guy at the local speed shop informed me that the pressure reading would suddenly become acurate once the engine was started. Uh huh, sure it does. Just my $0.02 -Andy

Never would have bought the S&W if I hadn't seen it on Mikes web page... Behold, the power of the internet. -Andy

Pete, When I mounted the Main Hoop, I indeed had to cut about 2 or 3 inches off the legs. This was needed in order to mount the hoop on the smaller 3 inch wide section above the floor and above the seat belt retractors. Also, I had to put about a 5 degree or so angle on the leg cut. I’m not sure if this was necessary, but my welding skills were (still are) less than par so I wanted to make things as simple as possible (less gap between bar and plate). Cutting the legs shorter makes it possible to use both seat belts. However, I never bothered putting the plastic cover (99% cosmetic, 1% dust cover) back on the retractor so I can’t guarantee this will fit once the bar is in. I never put the driver side three point back in so I can’t say much about this, but it “looks†like it would fit back in without any problems. Another very important item that must not be over looked; Make sure the belts are routed EXACTLY where you want them to be before welding the bars together. I made the mistake of welding in the side bar without pulling the belt to the center and latching it. Now, the lap bar has to go OVER the side bar then down to the center latch. Not the safest setup, but it “should†still prevent someone from going through the windshield. The only options I now have, is to either get a swing out bar or go with a 5-point for the passenger side. If the main hoop is welded in at the location just above the belts, it will tuck nicely behind the B-pillars. However, I still had to modify the rear cross bar so I could slide the seat back. Unless you’re under 5 feet tall, this needs to be done. Basically, I took the extra pipe that I cut off the main hoop (about 3 inches) and welded it to the cross bar (perpendicularly) before I attached it to the main hoop. By the time I notched the extra three inch pipe, I only had about two inches set back on the cross bar. Doing it over again, I would have gone for at least three inches (starting with a four inch section before notching). As for my rear bars, I shortened them so they would fit on the floor just next to the base of the strut towers before the spare tire well. The pre-cut length of these bars puts them right smack dab in the middle of the spare tire well. I was weary about shortening the bars and still maintaining a 30º angle, from vertical, that NHRA requires. With the bars going to the base of the strut towers, the angle is something like 29º. So unless the track inspector is totally anal, there shouldn’t be any problems. If so, just slam your front suspension and crank those rear coilovers as far as they will go. I was debating mounting the rear bars to the strut towers, but I decided to go with the floor. Can’t say if one is stronger than the other, but I just wanted to play it safe with “regulationsâ€. A final word to anyone considering doing a S&W 8 or 10 point cage/bar: This is not a bolt in kit that can just be “welded†in place. The reason the kit is so cheap (just over $100 on sale) is because you, the owner, are doing the majority of the work. Most (if not all) of the parts need to trimmed for proper fitting. I needed to use a circular cutting saw, a drill press with hole saw bit, and of course, a nice healthy welder. It would have been very difficult for me to do this without any one of these tools. However, I was able to manage and make myself a fairly nice 8 point bar setup. I never thought I was very good at metal working, but the job I did keeps impressing me day by day. S&W provided a nice startup kit to get the project rolling. When I talked to the gentleman over the phone, he was very friendly and explained to me exactly how much work was going to be involved. I like professional people  -Andy P.S. Go ahead and move this to the Chassis forum, I’m fine with it.

The only mod I really had to do, was slightly trim the hole in the console for the shifter to come up through. The hole had to be lengthened at the top near the radio. Don’t worry about having a beat up looking trim piece, the B&M cover will hide all this. Also, the B&M cover is going to take some creative thinking in order for it to look nice. I was kind of in a rush and I also wanted my shifter in the most ergonomically correct location, so my plastic B&M cover does not look optimal but it works. DANG IT!!! I wish my cheap butt would go out and buy a digital camera so I can send out photos of all this stuff I have. Oh well, good luck anyway. -Andy

HECK NO!!! The picture you posted is about a zillion times nicer than my friends old Malibu. Just because something is quick, doesn't necessarily mean it's nice. However, the picture you quoted does indeed look very nice... and I'm sure it moves nicely as well. -Andy

Don't worry too much about building a "bullit proof" 700R4 for a Datsun. These cars are light enough where the clutch packs aren't going to see a very serious loading on them. Just to be sure, however, go with a nice shift kit. I am running the B & M street/strip **** kit. I think I spent $25 for the kit. First to second will break 'em loose on street tires. Second to third will sometimes "chirp", but not always. The other mod I did was installing the B & M kick down valve. This is supposed to prevent partial throttle kick downs. I'm not sure if I needed it, but the price was right (free!!!) and the trans pan off. Why not? I think these valves can be had for about $20 - $30. Besides that, make sure that TV cable is adjusted and put a good converter in there. I realize lock-up converters are expensive for the 700R4, but they are totally worth every penny (performance wise). One last note, when looking for a 700R4, try to get one made in 1987 or newer. These models have the auxillary valve body and are considered superior to the previous models. Hope this helps -Andy

...nope, probably wouldn't give him a second look. That's the beauty of these cars. A ten second ride can be masked to look bone stock. However, many of my friends make comments that my idle (350 V8) is a dead give a way. I guess this is where the Tubro 6 would help things out a bit. -Andy

Scottie, Visited your web site yesterday and I must say that I was very impressed. It’s nice to see a private web site that is well written and documented. Bravo. Anyway, when I first heard of your GN conversion many old memories and ideas came up from the cellar of my brain. Back in the spring of ’97 my friend and I were going to swap in an 85 T-type drivetrain. Why an 85? Well, some guy out in New Jersey wanted $500 for a car that “ran perfect†with a smashed up rear. 568 miles later we discover the smashed up Buick and watched it run on a maximum of three of it’s six cylinders (poorly I might also add). We went back to Michigan and built up a turbo L28 out of junk yard parts. We were college kids at the time, so money was a big issue. Looking back on it, we are both glad we didn’t get the T-type. Most of the aftermarket parts for a Turbo Buick are for the intercooled version (late 86 – 87 GN’s). The non-intercooled EFI out of the 85 didn’t look like it was the trick ticket. Also, another friend of mine put an 87 GN drivetrain into a 78 Malibu. Running 15 pounds of boost, the car ran mid 13’s. Not great, but respectable for a street car. Eventually he sold the GN motor and dropped in a 383 small block. Currently he is running mid 12’s on the motor. Yeah, the V8 is faster… but the turbo6 was a much better street motor (quiet, nice idle, etc…) One more turbo6 experience (remember, Flint is in Michigan… these cars are everywhere around here). Last Summer I got my butt handed to me by an 84, plain Jane looking, 4 door, Cadillac Sedan De Ville. I thought I was going to waste this totally stock looking Grandpa car, but he ran off a 13.7 vs. my wimpy 14.9 (I was in my Impala, the announcer called it ‘Battle of the Barges’) As I pulled back into the pits, a shiny heat shield caught my eye. Yup, GN powered. I agree that the intercooled turbo6 is a fantastic motor. I think the hardest part about doing something like this is actually finding a good drivetrain. However, I have to wonder how comparable the price would be to a small block of some sort. But the “awe†factor of an intercooled turbo6 would win over a small chevy any day. Well, in my world at least. Happy motoring. -Andy

It makes alignment a little more sensitive to toe-in. However, the car lays out more flat when pushing it's way through the corners. If I hit rough surfaces while in turn, the wheel seems to track staight without straying to one side or another. It's a good "cheap" mod to perform (i.e. free!!!). -Andy

Pete, The roll bar legs meet at the base of the shock towers just in front of the tire well. I was thinking about putting in a fuel cell some time down the road, but I wasn’t ready to cut up the tire well quite yet. The NHRA rule book calls out for at least 30 degrees from vertical… this is close, but it should be OK. The back supports that came with the S&W kit had to be shortened by about 3 or 4 inches. This turned out convenient because those smaller sections are what I used to set back the cross bar on the main hoop. I don’t see any other way that this specific bar will work in a Z… unless the driver is 4 foot 9. Just be prepared with a 2 inch hole saw and a decent drill press. As for the interior panels, I am still running all the original door trim (arm rests and all). During normal driving, my arm sits on top of the side bar. For racing, the arm is supposed to be between the driver and the bar. I can wedge it in there, but it’s not too comfortable. It will pass tech, and that’s all I was really concerned about. There is not much room inside these cars once cages and such start going in. Being 6 foot 3 doesn’t make things much better either. Last thing to consider, the dead pedal on the floor needs to be removed for the side bar to fit correctly. I run an automatic, so I just rest my left foot on the old clutch pedal stop. I’m sure the side bar could be shortened to fit underneath the dead pedal, but I’m not sure how accessible it would then be. Yeah, I was surprised as well about not feeling much difference with the side bars at normal driving speeds. However, I did take a very-high-speed run last night (don’t worry, I live out in BFE) and the car felt much more stable in the triple digits. Before the bar, it would shake like a son of a you know what. Good luck -Andy

Well, I didn’t exactly make it out to the track this weekend. I was really pulling for Friday night, but my S&W 8-point took a little longer to install than I had thought. Regardless, I got everything welded in place and cleaned up by about 10pm. Roll bar looks WAY cool, I’m hoping to get some pictures that I can send out soon (I’m too lame to set up my own web page). I still need to paint the bars, but that’s just minor details for now. I am very impressed with the new found rigidity of the Z with the roll bar. However, the items that I thought would help the most (door / side bars) seemed to do little, in comparison to the main hoop and back supports. I put a good amount of miles on the car with both configurations and the side bars really didn’t help as much as I thought. Compared to the car without a bar, the ride is world’s better. My advice to all potential half-asser’s out there… if you are going to skimp on the roll bar, skimp out on the side bars. Main hoop and back supports made the biggest difference. I know that sounds weird, but it’s what I observed. It could also be the fact that I have hard time telling the difference between a rough ride and a knife in my back… who knows. But enough about the roll bar, on to the cruising. Got the Z together about 10pm Friday night. Took it to the quarter blaster and hosed the bugs off the front air damn and etc. Made it over to Gratiot by 11pm. To those who don’t know (probably most of the readers), Gratiot is popular place for younger punks to display their newly financed F-bodies or Rustanks. I’ve got nothing against either of these two cars (hey, gotta love them V8’s), but their numbers just saturate the streets. Anyway, got into three races. One 98 Firebird, a 99 Z28 and an older Regal with a 455cid mill. Now before everyone starts ragging on me for “street racingâ€, keep in mind that my idea of “street racing†is dropping down to 35 mph then nailing it up to about 60 mph. The only time I accelerate quicker than 60 mph is when I’m either alone or at the track. I figure that by 60 mph, a winner is usually determined. If not… well that’s when it’s time to find an empty alley somewhere  All three cars I went against I beat pretty badly. The Regal was the closest, but even by 60 mph, I had at least 3 car lengths on him. I was glad that he was the closest, he seemed pretty cool about getting beat by a jap car (really bad thing in Detroit). We talked a bit at a stop light where I told him the low down. The F-body punks, on the other hand, I wasn’t so kind to. The guy in the Firebird gave me a real mean look afterwards and asked me what I had done to my “thingâ€. Me: “Uh, just a K & N filter with a flowmaster exhaust… nothing else.†F-bod: “Bull$%it!!! What size motor you got in that thing!?!†Me: “Stock Four-Cylinder, dude!†He was confused, and I loved it. I know, I know, I’m a jerk. But the way I look at it, all the skinned knuckles, oiled hair, grimy fingernails, ex-girlfriends, etc… earns me at least one night a month where I’m “allowed†to be a jerk. Every other time I’m usually a nice guy. No, really!!! Well, just thought I’d share my adventure. I enjoy reading everyone else’s “war storiesâ€, I figured it was my turn to contribute. I WILL be going racing this week some time to do a bench mark before I put the long tube S&S headers on. I’ll post results. Happy motoring -Andy

I've got a 4150 2pumper with the choke horn milled (OK, hack sawed) off. Three pump shots, and away I go. Of course, I wouldn't recommend jumping on it until it's warmed up for at least five minutes... unless there is a power valve anti-backfire check valve installed. Most new Holley's come with this from the showroom floor. However, I'd double check for this item. Especially if there is no choke on the carb. -Andy

V12's aren't THAT hard to work on. Just make triple damn sure that every single piece in the valve train is within tolerence (non-adjutable, shimmed from factory... stupid design). Otherwise, very bad things happen... trust me. -Andy

I use the B&M Hammer shifter for a 700R4. IHMO, it's the best looking B&M out there (not saying much). Actually, it's the ONLY B&M that will work with all four gears of a 4 speed. I always liked the JTR idea of using the stock Datsun shifter, but so much of my interior is now non-stock, it's wouldn't really match. Anyway, I've had good luck with the B&M (knock on wood!) -Andy

...maybe I just forgot to give it the calibrated "kick"

Anyone visited the DSM Homepage www.dsm.org lately? (Talon, Eclipse, Laser) There is a whole bunch of ten second “legitimate†street cars out there. Heck I got my butt kicked last year by a 92 Talon that; pulled into the pits, removed tools and spare tire, dropped tires to 15psi, uncorked exhaust, blasted off an 11.0 at 120mph. I was humbled… to say the least. Turbo’s are cool. -Andy

I am currently running a 12" TCI lock-up for a 700R4. I realize this isn't the setup you are using, but the stall was rated at 1500 rpm over stock. The stock converter was stalling at a whimpy 1500, while the TCI pushed it up to 2800. Not exactly what TCI promised, but close enough for me (and my 2800 lbs. 260). Raising the stall 1300 rpm dropped about 2 tenths off my 60 foot times. Holeshots went from sedate, to phenomenal. Drivability, on the other hand, is about at the edge of what I would consider “streetable†(on a daily basis). Even at 30-40% throttle, the torque of the V8 spins the converter up to 2800 rpm. Kind of sounds like a “really-mean†mo-ped when taking off under light throttle. The saving factor on this specific converter is the lockup fourth gear. Makes for nice 70mph cruising at 2200 rpm. I also had a TH350 before the 4-speed. When I rebuilt my bottom end, I swapped in a TCI “Saturday Night Specialâ€. TCI rated the SNS at 400-500rpm over stock. My Z stalled it at about 2200rpm. It made for “good†holeshots and drivability suffered very little. I didn’t have the stock converter in the TH350 for very long so, I have a hard time comparing the two (I was also only 19 years old). From what memory tells me though… 1800rpm sounds about right. Good luck in your build, hope this helped -Andy

Forget about using the OEM Datsun tachometer with an MSD unit (unless you're ready for a lot of troubleshooting and big headaches. I tried everything under the sun to get my stock tach to work. Adapters, power resistor delete, etc... MDS tech line was friendly, but not very helpful. The MSD tach adapter (X1000 amplifier) worked OK until 2000rpm's, but then would fall off anything over that. I had my theories on how to fix it, but eventually bit the bullet and just bought an Autometer. I think Autometer and MSD have some sort of "conspiracy" out against tachometer manufacturers. Autometer is the only gauge I know of that will accept a 12V square wave tach output... which just happenes to be what the MSD unit sends. Hmmm... coincidence? On a positive note, three pumps of my chokeless double pumper, and the Z fires up EVERY no matter how hot or cold it is. Definitely worth the time and money. Good luck anyway. -Andy

I replaced a 600cfm vacuum secondaries with a 650 cfm double pumper. ET dropped an average of three tenths... Find out if someone locally can spin-in some down-leg boosters. If not, I might be able to arrange something. Down-legs are good for 20 free cfm and dramatically improve off-idle transitions. -Andy

I figure I could share a few of my 1/4 mile times. I've taken all three of my V8Z projects to the track, but only have actual timeslips (that I can find) from the most recent project. Enjoy... Z car No. 1 - The Hulk (Rust in Piece) '77 280Z 358ci Chevy, OEM ’77 Z28 heads, 8.9:1 compression Performer Intake, Holley 600 vac.2nds, HEI, single 3inch exhaust, TH350 w/ 2400 stall Street Tires (205/70/R14) 13.4xx @ 101.xx 1.961 sixty foot ---------------------------------- Z car No. 2 - (Accidentally made into a convertible) '77 280Z 358ci Chevy, OEM ’77 Z28 heads, 8.9:1 compression Performer RPM Intake, Holley 600 vac.2nds, MSD 6AL, single 3inch exhaust, 700R4 Street Tires (215/60/R14) 13.89x @ 101.xx 2.180 sixty foot (lousy OEM converter in trans.) ---------------------------------- Z car No. 3 '74 (early) 260Z 358ci Chevy, OEM ’77 Z28 heads, 8.9:1 compression Performer RPM Intake, Holley 650 2pumper, MSD 6AL, single 3inch exhaust, 700R4 w/3000 stall Street Tires (245/60/R14) 13.091 @ 104.59 1.961 sixty foot Drag Radials (275/50/R15) 13.051 @ 104.89 1.881 sixty foot Drag Radials and 125hp N2O 11.822 @ 113.03 1.664 sixty foot After years of contemplating, I finally broke down and bought a pair of 64cc Performer RPM heads with matching camshaft. The motor is up and running very nicely with the new heads. I need to install new seat belts and get a new jacket before I can take it to the track this weekend. Hopefully, it will get done. If I touch 11.0’s with this setup, I will be happy. If I get kicked off the track for running 10.9’s, I will be VERY happy. -Andy

Greetings all, Long time V8Z'er, first time poster (go easy). First off, I'm glad to see there is a home for all the fellow V8Z's out on the Net. Secondly, I have a small problem that has buggin me for quite some time and was hoping that somebody might be able to shed a little light. It seems that my 700R4 (in a 74.0 260Z) has a slight transmission leak somewhere. What is so strang about this...? Well, it only happens when it is hot (+90ºF) outside. After a day at these temperatures, there is a nice 1 quart puddle under the pass. side of the tranny. The cooling lines were tightened (with teflon tape), a new aluminum pan was installed, and the TV cable 'appeared' to be seated normally. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the cheap B&M P.O.S. TV cable I bought from summit is not sealing properly. It just seems wierd that it would only happen when it's hot out. No fluid seems to leak if I drive (beat) it around all day. Also, I put a nice sized cooler up front... so I can't picture the fluid getting too hot under driving (beating) sessions. Any input would be appreciated. On a final note, I was reading some of the older posts (from February) and read something about an individual wondering what needed to be done to 700R4 to make it "streetable" for out Z's. The 700R4 I'm currently using came out of an '87 Z28 for $250 (bone yard). I had no idea on the mileage, so I just said "drive until it dies!!!" Using this philosophy (which I don't really recommend, I think I just got lucky), I went with a B&M shift kit (the stiffest one that they still call "streetable") and a 3000RPM lock-up converter. Second gear lights up the street tires pretty good with the shift kit. However, I have made about a dozen 1.664 60 footers with BFG drag radials on this relatively stock 700. The 3.06 first geat is just right for my combo (3.54 R200). Bottom line, think twice before believing someone that claims a 700R4 needs $10,000 worth of mods before it can handle more than 200hp. Then again... this might just be why I have a pool of fluid under the Z every now and then. Oh well, it's the price we all have to eventually pay. -Andrew Bayley