BLKMGK

IMO - larger on the Z is probably going to be just for looks. I did it but I'm not sure that it's "necessary". Mike, how thick are those rotors? The 12inch ones I've go are like 1.25 inches THICK and when people see that their eyes bug out The pair of 4piston Outlaws weigh about what a single Toy caliper weighs if that. However the bigger rotors do weigh a little bit more I think. Hrm, you may need to add a master cylinder to your shopping list if you do this. I did and also gutted my rear residual pressure valve (easy). Pedal was soft(ish) until I went with a bigger (Datsun) master that Mike had...

This is a common "band-aid" that folks try to do to fool the computer into doing things they think will make more power. Here's what's going on - the ECU will have a circuit much like the choke on a carb. When the engine is cold it runs things a little richer to help it start and run better till it warms up. As it gets warmer it backs the fuel off in relation to the engine heat and will go "closed loop". In closed loop it will modify the fuel delivered while cruising in order to meet emissions. I'm NOT sure how sophisticated the older Z ECUs were but if they've got an O2 they probably do this. Anyway, what you're talking about doing is fooling the computer into thinking the car is colder than it is. As a result it'll run richer, may not go into closed loop, and may even run a totally different ignition program. At WOT this might even get completely ignored depending upon the ECU - I'm not sure. Will it make more power? Maybe. IF it does it will be because the car needed more fuel. If that's the case then perhaps finding a more controlled way to add fuel would be "better". Now possibly the ECU was poorly programmed and the warm up loop provides more power but most OEM ECUs are programmed pretty well for stock setups. Is there some reason why you think it needs more fuel right now? Some other common "band-aids" include: Moving the air temp sensor further away from the intake or actually hanging it inside the engine bay where it gets a reading not related to actual intake air temp. Monkeying wih the MAF meter - if you've changed injectors or fuel pressure this isn't actually so bad but I have some issues with doing this on Mustangs that might also apply to Zs. Ask me if you care and I'll explain Bypassing cooling lines to things like throttle bodies (Mustang guys do this). Changing base timing, not really a bad thing but it's a wholesale change everywhere. Changing fuel pressure - not super bad if the car has decent closed loop corection but at WOT you need to have it just right and warm up could suck. FMUs or rising rate regulators that change fuel pressure more than 1:1. Disabling primary O2 sensors (why?!). Hrm, I think that's all I can think of over and above fiddling the water temp sensor. Most of those changes have other side effects that aren't good and canwill effect other aspects of the car like warm up or driveability. Be very careful making changes like that - at least the resistor can be removed if it runs really bad but I think if you do this you'll find some aspect of the car has changed that you won't like - most likely mileage. You might also burn out a caalytic converter but that's mostly a guess. 'Zat help at all?

Heh, half the reason I went with what I did was the availability of the Nitto 245 45 17 drag radial Most of the wheels I looked at that I liked were 5lug in FWD offsets. I didn't want bolt on spacers either and MikeSCCA's brakes looked SO good (and LIGHT) on Mikelly's car that I just HAD to have them

Hehe, new here huh? Go over to MikeSCCA's page - fuelie 5.0 fits right in there A 351W, now THAT I've not yet seen. Better yet get the Ford 396cube crate motor!

Heh, wish I knew. I've got TWO, count 'em, TWO L28s in my garage. One 5speed trans (not T5), headers on both, and one has round top SUs. In te way is an understatement so if someone is local that can give them a good home and come off a little cash....

I cannot believe it fit! I want some details on that sucker - that's simply awesome! Go here for more pics BTW http://www.strangeness.org/images/

Grab it, no doubt about it! 400s are supposedly getting harder to find and that's a fair price for the block and crank. If you decide NOT to use I have little doubt you could recoup your money. I don't think 450hp on two bolt mains would be that big a deal either - SBCs aren't that weak are they?!

Pete, my drag radials actually rubbed a little on one side only My lips are NOT rolled yet. I've raised the back of the car up a bit but haven't driven it again. I could remove a spacer but then I think it'll hit on the inside - we'll see. It's pretty close to fitting. I had the wheel lip righ down on the tire - it's up about 3/4 of an inch now - coil overs rock! 260Z - do a search and look at some of my postings where I was beating my head against the wall trying to get it to fit. 5 lug is obviously a must but even then I'm not sure if this would fit for you - tire width in the back is certainly too wide without flares and coil springs. Recognize too that offset on a 7inch compared to an 8inch isn't apples to apples - you'll have to do math. I think that was in my old posts too. If you get really stuck let me know and I'll try to help.

Cool, another local person! The Q's are cast right? 25lbsapiece as I recall (shiver). I went with the CC134s and they "should" be here tomorrow for install Friday. I will take pics etc. but I appreciate the offer. Heck, you're not far away! Come by anytime!

Davy - don't some of the ZX have different power steering setups? Is there any particular setup he should prefer over another or any particular options that might make the swap more difficult? Say a digital dash etc.?

Yep, experience counts and it's not just for the ability to know what you're doing. Want to bet he's got a "toolbox full of disksmaps with baselines that are pretty close for 90% of the cars that come in the door? This is probably why he was able to nail driveability so easily on your car - he had the maps for a well tuned car squirreled away and was able to apply them to your setup. This is, again, why I like the idea of tuning from some sort of baseline like an OEM ECU would be. Ths is also why I've mentioned in other threads that it's a good idea to find out what system(s) your local shop is familier with. They might like a system that's not rated "the best" based on features etc. but if they've got maps for it and know how to work around "issues" then obviously going with a system they've never seen before is a bad idea I'll also echo what another said - we're not doubting or knocking anyone. Heck, my friend's shop builds motors and cars all day long but they send their EEC cars to LaRocca in NJ to tune because they recognize that he does the job better and has the experience (and maps for every combo you're likely to see!). If this guy knows Electromotive and that's the way I end up going I'll give them a call too. (shrug) Nice to know someone sort of local can offer this service. Electromotive is just up the street from me but word around town is they can't tune very well Their chassis dyno only goes to 500HP last I heard too. Hrm, I WOULD like some more details on the WINTEC shortfalls though. What exactly is to be avoided? I like the Windows stuff darn it.... [ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: BLKMGK ]

Fuel pressure needs to rise as boost rises and needs to fall as vacuum increases. Normally folks shoot for a 1:1 risefall and it sounds like you're pretty close to that. Is this the unit you crushed or no? The reason for this raising and lowering of pressure is that boost will try to push the fuel back down the pipe and vacuum will try to suck it out. By raising and lowering the pressure you're actually pretty much keeping the fuel supply out of the picture as a variable. This makes tuning simpler as you don't have to worry about what the fuel pressurecapacity of the fuel injectors is going to be - it ends up being what the injector is rated for. Does that make sense to ya'? Kind of hard to explain but it's normal for your car IMO. Some cars will band-aid fuel pressure in order to get more fuel under boost. This is what that silly FMU does on blower cars - instead of 1:1 with boost it will do say 2:1 or even higher. Instead of doing the fuel "correctly" with the ECU they raise fuel pressure artificially to richen the mixture. Bleah! The ECU is none the wiser since it's running open loop at WOT but the fuel pump and injectors sure feel the burn They will often times band-aid the ignition too Frankly, this is the sort of silly garbage that got me interested in aftermarket EFI...

I cannot wait to hear how thisthese swaps turn out! Please document the heck out of them and keep us posted. This just sounds like one really neat swap and if it runs well could be a good alternative to the normal American V8s. What's this motor look like bare? Will headers be an issue or can stock manifolds be used? Hope the shifter ends up in the right place

Here's how LaRocca did one of th elast cars that was taken up there... First pull was to 4K with a wide band O2 on it. Hit 4K and shut the car down, burned a chip. Put chip in car made 3/4 pull picking up something like 50 HP. Shut car down, look at data logs, burn another chip. Do a full power pass, read data logs, burn another chip, do a full power pull. I don't recall the numbers on the first pull but in the end it was making over 600RWHP and was up 100HP from the first pull. Car is street driven, no problems. So, how did he do it? Well, he's seen about a zillion blown 4.6 Cobra motors. He pulled a chip off the shelf that worked for the last car that had a close combo. He did a pull, saw where it was lean or rich, and made changes. So did the other guy really do just 4 pulls and fill in all the cells? Nah, he developed a program over who knows how many pulls on who knows how many cars. Over time he refined the program for each car until he knew where changes needed to be made. Any good programmer has a toolbox of software "tools" much the same way that any good ECU tuner has a toolbox full of programs from various combos. At least one member here has given another member a program that worked on THEIR car with much the same effect. It won't be "perfect" but it'll be close and cut the tuning time down from many hours to only a few hours. Could still more power be made? Probably if you wanted to spend days getting it but if the drivability is good and the power is good why would you want to put it on the edge? Does that make sense? BTW - my friend's out here have heard of JR. Did he recently setup that shop or move? Wasn't sure if that was a guy that was out closer my way that recently moved or not.

The JTR TPITBI book has some good info on the T56. It has SOME info on swapping in the TPITBI motors. It mostly boils down to telling you to stay away from Corvette motors and to telling you some portions of the TPI harness that can be removed etc. For an LT1 swap I'm not sure just how much you'll get out of it but it does have some good info on air duct routing. Some of the folks here can probably give you at least as much info so far as LT1 wiring. The regular Z swapbook is a must if you've not got it BTW as it'll help you with wiring too. If you go with the LT1 ECU you might want to check into the LT1 Edit software package - might be nice for your current car too...

Heh, but if you're going to do the billet in back won't the front look funny without it? Mike's got several billet setups for that too... hehe

I started to post this but it sounded silly but since it osunds like Pete might be in the same ballpark I'll toss it out... Some of the 'rods out there look like they use a "cradle" under the motor with mounts on it. Instead of attaching right to the crossmember have you considered a cradle under the motor that would attach to the frame above andor below? I understand you're hesitancy to stress the frame but is the current crossmember not doing this as well? Is it really putting all stress into the suspension or does the frame see some as well? I'm not sure a cradle is any better than mounts right to the frame but I'll toss that out for others to shoot down or not Hrm, maybe run something to both the frame AND the existing crossmember? Or am I restating what you guys are already discussing?

Thank You!! Ground clearance really looks much better than I expected. Interesting the way the outside tubes flare out enough to clear the 90 boots on your car but my "made for straight plug heads" headers don't quite make it. I think I'm still going to chicken out and run shorty style haders but those pics really do show how well they can be made to fit! If I were doing my exhaust from scratch again I'd be considering long tubes pretty seriously. Looks good man!

What exactly are you looking for as an end result? I've revamped quite a bit on my car but considering it's age,what's available now, and the fact it was in a million pieces anyway I figured I might as well get it over with! In my case I swapped in all new urethane bushings from Energy Suspension, switched to adjustable coil overs from MikeSCCA at fonebooth.com , swapped on 5lug 4 wheel disk brakes also from Mike (Outlaw billet at all corners), swapped on 17X8 inch Konig 5.0 wheels and upgraded rubber. Struts are Tokico but I didn't go with their adjustable ones - I probably should have. I also did NOT cut down my strut housings which might have been a good idea. Cost? Tires in back are 245 45 Nitto drag radials, in front are 235 45 Nittos (possibly 225, I can't recall). I used Konig 5.0 wheels with +40mm (+30mm?)up front and +20mm in back (from memory but this is documented here in other posts). These wheels required thin spacers at all 4 corners to fit correctly. Brakes required an upgraded master cylinder and when vacuum is "correct" I've got some really awesome stopping power. Squeeks like heck when cold though Diff mount is a solid piece from MSA. Steering coupler is also a solid plastic piece. If you're bone stock I'd certainly do the urethane bushings with lot's of grease (mine hasn't squeaked yet). I'd upgrade the front brakes as well with your wallet being your guide. Tons of info here on brakes that I won't repeat yet again. Consider rear disks but at least put on fresh shoes if you keep the drums. We could spend all day talking about wheels but I think you'll find a better selection if you go 5lug (sigh). If you've got wheels you like then don't sweat 5lug IMO. If you've not yet torn your diff mount tie it down with steel cable per JTR or replace it with a solid unit but expect more noise from the solid unit. Springs I changed to coil overs to get ride height adjustability and tire clearance - you may or may not needwant this. Figure coil overs are $400 + labor and some fabrication (welding required) on your part so it's not cheap. Spring rates up front were 225, 200 in back and seem fine so far on my car. While you've got things apart changing the bushings check your struts - mine were toast! Lot's of opinions there to include sectioning the strut tubes on lowered vehicles - if your struts were shot then bottoming may be why and sectioning them could be in order. A few threads here explain this so a search will find lot's of info. I think I should've sectioned mine and might in the future if I find myself riding on the bumpstops. I run a rear strut brace and will run a front one when I find one that fits with my motor - it may be simply a pipe with crushed ends . I figure it can't hurt to tie the suspension together like this. If a cage can be considered part of the suspension I've done that too with about 8 points. Lastly, I didn't swap out ball joints since they looked okay, I also started to but didn't swap out steering rack boots - I have some small tears I mine. I DID grease everything with good synthetic grease. I've got strut spacers under my front struts but I'm not sure they really do much. I did NOT do the JTR bumpsteer modification but might in the future. I'd suggest starting with little stuff like bushings, replacing anything worn, and then consider upgraded brakes in the front at least. P.s. Okay I have to ask - is there anything I should've done that I didn't? I can't imagine that I missed anything suspension related that I shoudl've done. Maybe tie rod ends and short steering arms but I don't think anything else is stock hardly [ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: BLKMGK ]

I guess I got lucky for once. The LSD R200 I received froma 300ZX accepted the JTR specc'ed Neapco piece just fine. A friend who does gear changes often swapped the adapter over for me and installed all new seals. We didn't put in a new crush sleeve if they've got one and so far I've been happy to hear no whining. Perhaps when the car has been quieted down I'll hear more but it seems solid. He says these suckers have the longest pinion gear he's ever seen !!!!!!!!!!!!HOLD IT!!!!!!! I think I may have mislead folks here!! I had to have a 280ZX snout put on that 300ZX R200. I just remembered this - this is why my friend had to pull it apart for me. Once that was done the Neapco part fit perfectly. I still have the 300ZX part sitting on my bench if a pic of it would be helpful. I'm sorry I neglected this bit of important info in my first posting about his. Out of the box the 300ZX pinion flange does NOT fit the Neapco adapter!!!! [ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: BLKMGK ]

Yes, 3.7 in the 87.5-89 300ZX turbos only. Even the viscous LSD SE edition was 3.7 I believe. With the T56 this seems to be pretty good. I can attest to 1st and second being quite fun with the T56 even if your secondaries won't open I've hit 6th once but with the way my motor runs now it's not a fair comparison. Revs dropped to just below 2K and I was likely above legal speeds I think it's a decent ratio - lower might be just a smoke fest and as it stands now with my poor running motor I can lay 245/45 Nitto drag radial QUITE easily. R230's come in 4 series I believe but that swap isn't as easy (yet). Hope that helps some. Oh, 140+mph without spoilers is asking for "bad things" from the aero discussions we've had here.

MikeSCCA is working on an E-brake solution for the Outlaw setup. I've got his Outlaw front and rear setups on my car now. Still working out bugs on my car but the process of installing it isn't hard - I went to 5lugs too. I didn't speak up earlier as it sounded as if you wanted to go low dollar. However if you decide to spend more money for awesome brakes say the word and I'll tell you about all the nuances of the swap. Pics are on my site if you're interested. You can go 4lug too but with 5 you get lot's more wheel options (and added cost too I'm afraid).

I've NOT tuned on a dyno but I have tuned on the street. Drivability tuning is THE hardest to do and the dyno alone won't do this. OEMs spend zillions doing this part of the tuning - WOT is apparently much easier. FWIW - the Ford guy doing the chips for the folks here has been known to gain 80HP in a single shot. This is LaRocca I'm talking about up in NJ so the guy does know what he's doing. If he didn't do this sort of thing all the time he'd probably have a tougher time. He's tuning off of a stock OEM EEC V curve too so he's got a pretty good baseline to work from. This is one of the reasons why I've liked the idea of using a stock ECU and something like LT1Edit. Having a good tuner's baseline to work from would be much the same I'd guess. Experience counts for a lot, having tried to tune my own car I can attest to that. Lastly, the dyno my friend just purchased is an inertial dyno - a Dynotech unit. I had always thought they couldn't do steady state tuning too but his has come with an added "new" software option that can apparently do this. We've not tested the dyno yet as it's still being setup but if this is true and it works this might allow for driveability tuning. I'll let everyone know how it works out...

I'm actually waffling between the Spintechs and the Edelbrock RPM mufflers. The Spintechs are $125 each and are aluminized unless you pay extra for stainless. The Edelbrocks are stainless, use ceramic wool, are maybe an inch taller, and are $79 apiece which is a decent savings. The Edelbrocks would probably be quieter too... Since I seem to have a bit of ground clearance to spare thanks to an awesome exhaust guy this is a real tough one to call. I considered Supertrapps seriously for awhile. However I'm not sure I liked the look, they use fiberglass, and I had decided against running dual exhaust. I sort of wanted the big tip rice look and the 'trapps just weren't what I wanted. They're not bad mufflers but to get the car quiet enough I'd have probably had to really cork them up. Hrm, got any pics though? That might work well for others and it would be interesting to see how they look.

Did some additional troubleshooting today. Damper appears to be correct. Initial timing, sans vacuum advance, is about 18 or so Lower, say around 10, leads to poor idle so this follows what you've seen. Fuel level at the floats was off and it's quite obvious that the engine is running on 7, possibly 6, cylinders. (sigh) This is due to the headers being so close and boots burning. When one of the boots is held away from the header engine speed picks up a good bit (duh). Last but not least - the secondaries aren't opening. This is a little scary as the car scoots real well on just the primaries and I bet an Iroc looking Camaro running like this So.. I believe that my steps will be headersmufflers, some new boots, possibly an ignition. At that point timing can probably be brought down and idle speed for sure. Jetting and troubleshooting the secondaries would be next. Yup, lot's of work to be done. Hopefully I won't have to recurve the distributor - I've only ever tried that once before many years ago and hated it.