BLKMGK

Well, seems I've got a carb! NO one bid against me which gives me a little queasy feeling but I saved about $50 over buying it through JEG'S so I'm not bitching It's a 770CFM Avenger Holley. If it proves too much there are plenty of used 650's out there I'm finding on E-bay that would need to be rebuilt. (shrug). I do have one STUPID question. My Victor Jr. is listed as having a "4150 style flange" - I'm only just now noticing this. Will the Avenger series carbs fit this flange?! I was told NOT to buy a 4150 carb since they were mostly race oriented but now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot here? Have I mentioned lately that I really like EFI?

Okay, after looking at some of the SDS project vehicles and other sicko' machines running their simplified system perhaps they're worth a hard look too. Cars running in the 8's have to be dooing something right! You'll give up the comfort level of having lot's of logging and whatnot but the price is right....

Try to find a sequential system with wide band O2. Spark and fuel control of course. Knock sensing perhaps. NOS control or boost control maybe? Look for good (FAST!) data logging and tools to manage the resulting data. Something that "self tunes" for a target A/F ratio wouldn't be a bad idea. Local support would be cool too. Hrm, Electromotive is based in Manassas and has all those features including waste spark firing I would advise you to at least speak to them. They ain't cheap but at least you no longer have to buy their software. Look at the Speedpro units and the very latest DFI stuff that's either just out or about to come out. Lastly, what's wrong with what you've got? Haltech right? Spark AND fuel control? You've got a dyno near you that Barry has used, yes? Why don't you head over there and see what they like? Someone will have to tune this beast, trust me, and it would be a good idea to use a system the tuner is familiar with.....

Heh, well I found a 770 Avenger on E-bay A couple of them actually and they're cheaper than Jeg's so we'll see how it goes. Every source I check online including Holly seems to point to the bigger carb. I guess under carbing it a hair wouldn't kill me though. IF I can get the 770 I will. A 670 is an option and yeah I'm considering that too. This isn't the final induction setup but looking aorund it's not going to be cheap to go EFI, I might have to hold off a bit. I want to actually drive this car some and tearing it down right after getting it running would kill me. I made some progress today parts chasing and getting my oil fill welded in. The oil fill was a goat rope but it's in there and I've "restored" the threads (shiver). As for Edelbrock - the folks who will tune this puppy will know Holleys best. Heck, shake a tree around here and someone who knows Holleys falls out. Show them a different carb and they seem to glaze over We'll see. I hate this!

Hmm, cam will be tamer, lower compression I'll bet (?), but mostly like th eMustang. It will almost certainly be MAP and NOT MAF. Mustangs didn't get MAF until 89 except in California so I doubt the 'bird will have it. Don't sweat that too much as converting it over could probably be done fairly easily like it can be on the Mustangs. Can you find no motors from Mustangs? As many of them as have been made and as many punks are wrapping them in trees I'm shocked! Look around, if you're lucky some punk will bash one that's already been built up...

Slayer - swap the pedals over, hole on firewall should be there for the master. Find a donor Z that was a manual, pull the pedal(s), and away you go. Probably easier than converting a Mustang over

VERY nice! I like the wheels too! I think it was suspensions.com that I got my Energy Suspension "master kit" from. I posted the URL awhile back, better prices than MSA and VB. I've still got a few bushings I can't figure out (lol) but they had just about THE cheapest price, shipped fast, and it had everything I needed to do the suspension - just not much in the way of directions. I would advise buying more lube though and using lot's of it to avoid squeeks. That ought to get your suspension woes solved fast. If you do the rear bushings expect to need new pins after you've banged out the old ones (sigh). Lastly, if you use a stock mount for the rear wrap it in wire per JTR. Otherwise consider a solid mount. I went solid to avoid any fuss in the future but if it's going to be driven much the wire trick is supposed to be best. Other's have simply fabbed whole new mounts (shrug). So, what motor ya' dropping in there or did I miss that?

Lone, Summt had HOWE radiators?! Wow, never spotted them in the catalog. Mine's not in all the way just yet. I've mounted the lower part and now have a top piece fabbed but it needs to be lower in the car. I'll have to space the JTR lower mount down - I've ordered the S10 radiator rubbers too for top and bottom. As for "making it fit" - it drops right in on the JTR bracket. I spread the little feet just a bit though to make sure it had room. You'll have to fab the top mounts but you MIGHT be able to use the top mounts out of a 84-93 Muntang - worth a shot. I never test fit this but if someone has a burning urge I could try. Trouble with that setup is it wouldn't help mount a fan. Honestly, I think for the price a cirlce track type radiator in the right size is a great cheap idea. $180 for a completely aluminum radiator isn't bad. I've nto yet run mine so I can't say it's "best" but my fan will probably mask any issues with size Mounting the FAN is actually the hardest part of this whole thing I think. I've got some ideas thanks to Pete as to how to do it but it's still not quite there yet. I'll know more tomorrow maybe as I'll be trying to work on it some. What size motor are you trying to cool? How much room between the frame rails on your car? Mikelly got lucky - others have ordered the same radiator he's got and it was wider....

You might have to worry about some of the hopped up Mustangs but off the showroom floor Mustangs will probably be pretty easy. It's mostly about power to weight - you can have less power than they do (like my RX7) and still beat them or keep up with them (like a certain 'Vette owner found out with the RX7). You may have say 300HP and they may have 300HP but you'll probably be at LEAST 500-800lbs LIGHTER. I think the old rule is 1 tenth per 100lbs and 1 tenth is something like a car length at the end of the quarter. Rough rule of thimb but you get the idea. It also comes down to driver ability - my Mustang should've been deep in the 11's but with me driving it never ran better than a 12.15 @118mph. My 60fts never were better than 2.1s and I had a hell of a time hitting 3rd with the Tremec. (shrug) Even if you lose, as others pointed out, you've spent less. You can also modify to your heart's content without worrying about emissions depending on where you live. Oh, and it's not a belly button car I've had "kids" ask me more thna once just what the heck it was that I was driving. I haven't had that happen since I had a V8 Vega GT. That particular car got FAR more looks than my Mustang ever has! So relax, you'll win some, you may lose a few, but it'll be a blast. So - is someone talking smack about your car already? Might be time for a side bet or two and maybe a little blue bottle just in case

I do think I really want a vacuum secondary. Pete's got a point about only running 2 barrels until the hammer comes down. I also only intend to run this until I am happy enough with everything to tear it down for EFI I've been looking at Force EFI and drooling! http://force-efi.com/ After I posted I hunted around some for Demon info too. Much of what I read echoed what's above - especially parts availability. Guess I'll be going for the tricked out Avenger. I'm not thrilled with the shiny stuff but things like the quick change secondary spring, site plugs, "protected" power valve etc. seem to make it a good purchase. As always, thanks! This project is almost there, or so I keep telling myself. If wheels came today that will be a big step. Cut a hole in one of my valve covers yesterday for the filler - that was scary! PCV coming soon..

Good stuff guys, thanks! However - this is for indicator lights not tailights Not sure if I'll have the fast flash, I'm betting not. This blue LED is REAL bright so if you consider them for lighting check out RatShack first. Me, I colored my bulbs with a marker - we'll see how that works out. I knew about anodecathode (I was trained as an electronics tech 13 years ago but haven't used it in over 10) however these LEDs were NOT mrked. One lead was a HAIR shorter than the other - no other indications! So, I spoke to a friend who works with this stuff often - he told me that the NEG side oculd be figured out by looking inside the LED. Bigger side is grounded, so far it seems he was right Lastly, for anyone following in my footsteps - per Pete - the brake and high beam indicators are WEIRD! They have two leads and cannot be wired to a common ground. You either have to use a set of relays or wire them differently than you do the turn signal indicators. Yuck! Had I known this BEFORE I got this far and soldered everything to as common ground I'd have been MUCH better off! Don't make my mistake please. Thanks goto Pete who noticed this and explained to me why it is. Hope to have my stuff wired by the end of this long holiday. I'll put upa WEB page on it when I've got time - it's NOT hard to do if you want to keep these lights and run aftermarket gauges.

Congrats on the purchase! When do we get to see more pics? What are your plans for that puppy?

We've discussed this some in the past, I'm still on the fence. Price difference between a Holley "Avenger" and the Speed Demons is all of $20 or so. I've pretty much ruled out Edelbrock carbs due to their renowned return rates etc. but I guess if there's enough support maybe I'd change my mind. Price is certainly right for those suckers but even friends of mine locally are warning me away from them - I wouldn't know where to start to tune them. Anyway, I know Mike had trouble with his Demon, Mike did you ever work it all out? It looks like replacement parts, at least in the catalogs, aren't falling out of trees for these. Can they accept Holley jets etc.? Difficult to tune? The idea of a design that's been cleaned up and refined appeals to me but not if parts are hard to find. I'd prefer to do little tuning if I can help it and hope that the design is close enough to a Holley that finding help won't be hard if I needed it. Tips or tricks for the Demons I should know about? Holley on the other hand is an old standby. The new carbs certainly sound like they've got all the features you'd want. I hear the silver plating comes right off if you hit them with solvent though - not exactly the billet parts used in the Demon. Has anyone used one of the Avengers yet? I actually went after a carb or two on E-bay but am wary about spending very much since it'll probably turn out to be a carb that's WAY out of tune or in dire need of a rebuild right off the bat. I'd like plug and play as much as possible! I happen to hate carbs but to get this puppy running that's what I'm going with - EFI later. Tuning I'd like to stay away from if possible and will accept slightly less than optimal performance if I must. If it doesn't bog I'll leave it alone Lastly, carb sizing. I expect between 425-450 horse. Holley rep at the track told my friend I ought to be looking at a 650 for street use in my car. Jeg's catalog for the Avenger claims that carb is good to just 400HP. The 750 is for 400+. Corresponded with someone who has a 650 on a 383 that sounds much like mine and he's selling it for a 750. Seems on the top end the car feels starved for air. I've looked at Holley 700's but they don't sound like they come as tricked out as the Avenger series. They're also apparently manual secondary only "double pumpers". Edelbrock and Demon don't appear to have 700's available. Spoke to a friend with a Holley 650 on a 406, he loves it. Doh! I hate conflicting information.... P.S. Have read some of the old threads on Demons, not many there but not much good said either. Holly's "interactive" product selector doesn't ask many questions but points to the Avenger 750.. [ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: BLKMGK ]

Check E-bay for fuse blocks. I've got a "spare" that might or might not fit yours but I'd prefer to hang onto it for now unless you really can't find one. I hope to NOT fry mine when startup time comes but ya' never know(

I've asked before but... Has anyone seen the Sport Compact article where they show the 200SX brakes that we're using and then talk about an upgrade for the SX using I think NX brakes? The pad size is supposed ot be bigger and the looks of the caliper itself are also much nicer. It's supposed to b a bolt-on for th eSX so I'd ASSume it might also be a bolt-on solution for those of us looking at SX brakes. The SX setup has no E-brake and neither would this NX setup so consider that too....

Uh boy Pete - don't tell me I can't ground one end of that circuit... I've already soldered all the LEDs in and everything! Now I know I've got to dig up a volt meter to look at this. Grr! Has anyone else looked at this? Pete, any ideas on getting around this? That sounds like a really whacky way to have wired that sucker up! Oh, I did seriously consider using duct tape to hold the gauge in. The trouble with that is that if you ever have to remove the tape you've got nasy tape goo all over the place. At least the silicone peels of clean

Okay Pete, now I understand! I also better understand the brake light switch - and it actually makes sense! If you've ever looked close at that switch you'll see it's one wire to the brake arm. It must ground when th earm is pulled - hence that light needs two wires too. I think I'm going to break down and use relays. Pulling those LEDs from the cluster I built for this would be a PITA. I should've thought further ahead and looked closer I guess! Tachometer is rock solid since the silicone set!

What's wrong with the wipers? I've got a handful of motors thanks to an E-Bay auction and a parts car if you need one Can't say they absolutely work but.... Have some rear view mirrors like that too all boxed up. Been hoarding and buying some parts from E-Bay for awhile now.

Yeah, I was considering the relay thing already - grr. So, the way their circuit works is full time 12volts and an interrupt to ground - is that right? That's weird! The E-brake light looks to be the same way too but that seems even weirder. Two wires on that bulb as well - sheesh I suppose the other option would be to snip the common ground for those two LEDs and wire the legs into the two wires. Certainly cheaper but a pain. Means I have to pull that cover off again and disconnect the turn signal wires, rats! If what I've understood you to say is correct, wiring the "hot" side right now to the LED would result in the light being on all the time. Assuming I had a battery in the car that is My big fear is the smoke test when I finally hook one back up in the car! This does ring one dim bell though.. I spoke to a guy who bought a Z that had some problem. It wouldn't start or didn't have lights - can't recall which. Previous owner was dumping it. This guy said all he had to do was replace a bulb in the dash and it ran - for some reason one of the circuits went THROUGH a bulb and would fail when it burnt out. Is that accurate and does this have anything to do with that behaviour? Wow, I might actually have to get a magnifying glass and try to look at the wiring diagrams I've got (sob).

Heh, proves my point - some techs will accept it, others won't. Glad to know the "house" idea worked. My chassis guys thought it would but warned me it might not. Th plastic box shouldn't pass I don't think unless it's been tested. I THINK one of the boxes out there might have been tested but I'm not sure. As to exhausting crankcase vapors - I won't be running tubes to the exhaust. The suction that produces is slight, I'll vent it to the carb just like emissions burdened cars do. It might cost me a little HP but I doubt it and I know I'll have vacuum. Exhaust velocity apparently has to be pretty high for the fumes to get sucked out by running them to your exhaust system. (shrug) That can get messy too I think.

Something to consider - traction! Small block Zs can spin the tires a good LONG ways - a big block would be worse without extensive mods. Take a look at the Darius video - he rolls into it in second or third and lites the tires through at least one gear change. That's not dropping the clutch, that's rolling into the gas! That car is supposed to have like 600hp. Others here have that "problem" too. A decent SBC with NOS or a blower could hit that 600hp fairly easily. Look into a large cube SBC if you want big cubes with an easy swap (space-wise) but bring your wallet and expect little traction. You looking to tub the car and goto a solid axle? IMO anything over about 400HP is going to really move. Heck, anything in the 300HP range is going to fly! The car will most likely weigh in the 2500-2800lb range, do the math. I'm shooting for 450hp but I'll go blower or bring a little blue friend if that proves not to be enough of a thrill. Just remember - more isn't always better. I took a guys money twice in a row once even though he was driving a much higher horsepower car. He simply couldn't hook and hitting the NOS just made it worse for him....

Finished installing the Monster Tach tonight! Well, mounting it anyway It's not a very tight fit in the dash hole and the double sided tape I wrapped around it wasn't too great. I figured one hot day and a hard mash of the gas and it would end up in my lap or worse wrapped up in the wheel! So, I joined Lone's club and grabbed some black silicone caulking! I know that sounds really bad but you'd be surprised at what this stuff can do (lol). I'll wait till it completely dries before I'm too excited but as it began to harden it was obviously doing a good job. Worse comes to worse it can be pulled off pretty easily if I abort this method. Anyone found a better way? This was one of those pedestal tach with the shift lite, I didn't like the ones meant for the in-dash mounting I'll snap a pic tomorrow night, the steering column LED project is nearly done. I just have to figure out why they used two wires on the high beam and brake indicators when they used a single wire everyplace else. One of those has got to be a ground! No word back yet from Autometer on the speedo going back but I'm anxious to get it mounted as well. With silicone too I'll bet!

Ya' that's what resonators are for I believe. Stick one on the end(s) and see if it helps. Be aware they can also be pretty restrictive though.

Hunted aoround tonight for somehting to make a mount out of. Best I could come up with was some aluminum diamond plate I think I'll make a pair of mounts for the top with this or use some of the thick stock given to me with the Cobra fan. I've cut down the largest "leg" on the Cobra fan so it's more like a round piece to ease mounting. It's still huge and I'm still not sure how I'll put mounts on the fan shroud itself but I'm closer. I believe my radiator needs to drop down a good half inch before I can get more serius about completing the mount - it's up over the front crossmember right now (sigh).

Can it be "gutted" or must it be removed? The only one I'm familier with is on an American car, I'm not sure where mine is on the Z - it's a '72. On the American car you could unscrew a nut looking thing to get inside it, removing everything inside allowed you to bypass it altogether. Can that be done?