clarkspeed
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Posts posted by clarkspeed
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The answer is: it depends. Camber plates let the strut rod extend further and the 240 struts are already a little shorter, which helps a lot. Again, shoot for static ride height around mid-point of strut travel. If you slam it, you will bottom out the struts.
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OK, let me pull this sticky post back to the original topic. I have some updated info on struts.
I followed the Katman's advice and went with Bilsteins. I like to be a little different and I think a non-adjustable strut more closely matches vintage racing intent. I was also swayed by this post and Katman's posts on the IT forum. In addition the Bilsteins are cheap and the Carreras are no longer available.
The full part number on the box is F4-P30-0032-MO. This is the "sport" shock used for 75-84 Rabbit and others. From Bilstein website:
SPORT
For the performance-minded driver, Bilstein “Sport†shocks deliver absolute mastery of the road surface. Designed to push a car’s suspension to it’s performance peak, these super-firm shocks are well suited for use with special
springs, anti-sway bars or other suspension upgrades.
Measured data (by me with +/- 5% tolerance) is as follows:
Shaft dia: 1.315
Shaft dia. at top: .550
Shaft length: 8.5 to top of gland nut
Body dia: 1.519
Body length: 13 to top of gland nut
gland nut is 1/4 thick
Overall Length: 21.5
Stroke: 5 - 5/16
Color: Bilstein Yellow
Gland Nut (240Z) - p/n B30-629
Gland nut - 48mm x 1.5 thread
Cost: $99 ea. + $15 gland nut
The gland nut was a sticking point. P/N 450424 gland nuts listed earlier in this post are no longer available. Bilsteins take a special nut that has an oil seal. The closest replacement is p/n B30-629 with the correct threads but too long. You will need to order this nut and cut about 5/16 of the threads off to get correct fit. I did it carefully with a cut off wheel and a little sanding. I will try to get a p/n for a 280 (52mm x 1.5) nut at a later date.
So far, Bilstein has been a good company to work with and future re-valves are indeed $65 ea.
Of course, as detailed in earlier posts, cut a spacer to fit into the bottom of the tube so the gland nut tightens up within 1-2 mm's from the strut housing, but not bottoming. I used 3/4 pipe. And depending on what you are attaching it to at the top, you may need to drill out or obtain a bushing for correct fit to your camber plates or spring perch.
As I build this one up in preparation for the Walter Mitty, I will try to post a static alignment thread.
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OK, let me pull this sticky post back to the original topic. I have some updated info on struts.
I followed the Katman's advice and went with Bilsteins. I like to be a little different and I think a non-adjustable strut more closely matches vintage racing intent. I was also swayed by this post and Katman's posts on the IT forum. In addition the Bilsteins are cheap and the Carreras are no longer available.
The full part number on the box is F4-P30-0032-MO. This is the "sport" shock used for 75-84 Rabbit and others. From Bilstein website:
SPORT
For the performance-minded driver, Bilstein “Sport†shocks deliver absolute mastery of the road surface. Designed to push a car’s suspension to it’s performance peak, these super-firm shocks are well suited for use with special
springs, anti-sway bars or other suspension upgrades.
Measured data (by me with +/- 5% tolerance) is as follows:
Shaft dia: 1.315
Shaft dia. at top: .550
Shaft length: 8.5 to top of gland nut
Body dia: 1.519
Body length: 13 to top of gland nut
gland nut is 1/4 thick
Overall Length: 21.5
Stroke: 5 - 5/16
Color: Bilstein Yellow
Gland Nut (240Z) - p/n B30-629
Gland nut - 48mm x 1.5 thread
Cost: $99 ea. + $15 gland nut
The gland nut was a sticking point. P/N 450424 gland nuts listed earlier in this post are no longer available. Bilsteins take a special nut that has an oil seal. The closest replacement is p/n B30-629 with the correct threads but too long. You will need to order this nut and cut about 5/16 of the threads off to get correct fit. I did it carefully with a cut off wheel and a little sanding. I will try to get a p/n for a 280 (52mm x 1.5) nut at a later date.
So far, Bilstein has been a good company to work with and future re-valves are indeed $65 ea.
Of course, as detailed in earlier posts, cut a spacer to fit into the bottom of the tube so the gland nut tightens up within 1-2 mm's from the strut housing, but not bottoming. I used 3/4 pipe. And depending on what you are attaching it to at the top, you may need to drill out or obtain a bushing for correct fit to your camber plates or spring perch.
As I build this one up in preparation for the Walter Mitty, I will try to post a static alignment thread.
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That was taken a few years ago, and I have a different car now. If I remember it was a good 2" overall. It looks deceiving. Can't tell from a stock fender unless you put side by side. Remember, all of the 2" is at the top and it tapers to no flare at the bottom. I started with vise grips to get the lip out. Then pipes of various diameters to roll further. Then onto the beating. As you beat with a body hammer/dolly you try to get the flare to begin as high as possible and get lots of stretch in the edge. It's a 280 and I had to cut about 4" out of the stock front valence for tire clearance in the front. I prefered the valence to an air dam.
You need to weld the rod in for support in the front and reattach the inner to outer fender in the rear for strength. I used rivets in the rear because each time I started to weld, the goo started fire and also contaminated the weld. I put the rod in after an autocross creased the front fender from corner loads. It was pretty thin up there.
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Do them right and they will look something like this.............
Just takes time and a strong arm for hammerin'. I recommend body hammers and dollys to really work the metal. And Bondo of course to smooth it all out. I ended up welding in a 3/16 rod just under the edge to add strength back and give it a nice look. This mod allowed 245/45/16 rubber under a lowered car.
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Sounds great. Those tires look huge!
You gotta get that thing drivin' on the street.
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This is a good thread. I've noticed camber and dive can have a substantial effect on braking g's. I don't run any more camber in the front than I need to.
When I did the Skip Barber school they had some interesting comments on braking. Of course the Barber cars run on narrow BFG street tires which look (and feel sort of) like there would be very little g's available under braking. However, maximum g's in the car, 1.4, were experienced right at turn in with a slight trail brake. Hince the reason they teach trail braking while some other schools do not. Seems the tire patch is the largest under threshold braking and when you make that turn in, the tires take a bite like they've never seen before. Makes sense. I use trail braking much more now.
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Tube80z,
What size masters did you end up with?
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Above posts are correct. Bias knob reduces pressure to rear. Pedal should "hold firm" when air is out.
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For someone like me getting ready to source some race struts, this thread is AWESOME!
And by the way, here is the quote I got from Shox.com
8610-1437RACE $159.00 eac strut insert
8611-1259RACE $249.00 each
Koni & Tokico have free shipping, for retail customers, to the continental USA and Canada. Further discounts are usually available when purchasing more than one item at the same time.
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For someone like me getting ready to source some race struts, this thread is AWESOME!
And by the way, here is the quote I got from Shox.com
8610-1437RACE $159.00 eac strut insert
8611-1259RACE $249.00 each
Koni & Tokico have free shipping, for retail customers, to the continental USA and Canada. Further discounts are usually available when purchasing more than one item at the same time.
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I read an interview that stuck with me about a year ago. I think it was with Sea-Bass, the Champ Car driver. He said if he missed the turn-in or apex by an inch, he would be off the road. Think about that level of committment and maintaining it.
Personally, I always found comparisons with golf. Hitting the turn-in, apex, and track-out "feels" like that perfect swing with a driver. In the groove. Like bowling 3 strikes in a row. Man+Machine=1. And you are always learning. Even Tiger Woods has a pro.
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Here's a recent pic that I like. Not that pretty but high on the fun meter.
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Update:
Carrera 32748's no longer supported by Carrera (QA-1). QA-1 has no plans to move into strut insert applications.
Another cheap race shock bites the dust.
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Update:
Carrera 32748's no longer supported by Carrera (QA-1). QA-1 has no plans to move into strut insert applications.
Another cheap race shock bites the dust.
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I'm curious about the 8610's also. Oh and the GC Advance Design's are 6-8 weeks lead time.
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I'm curious about the 8610's also. Oh and the GC Advance Design's are 6-8 weeks lead time.
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Who makes a $550 TIG machine? As an engineer I spent some time in the heavy manufacturing industry and was actually a part time (pretend) weld engineer. I've sourced many units and have always wanted to get one for myself but couldn't afford it. Most of the used units I delt with were over $1000. I've been away from the industry for awhile but I've never seen an entry level TIG for less than $1000.
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As an update to this post, I'll call it...............
ECONOMICAL RACE STRUT INSERT OPTIONS
Bilstein (VW sport insert) non-adjustable - P30-0032 - $99 ea. Plus $70 for revalve at Shox.com
Advance Design - double adjutable - $399 ea. - Ground Control
Koni 8610-1437RACE - single adjustable - may need revalve - $160 - Summit
Koni 8611-1257RACE - double adjustable - $256 Summit
Carrera 32748 - non-adjustable - Still supported by QA-1? I'm still waiting on quote/answer.
Tokiko - Not suitable for higher spring rates.
For the price, I'm thinking seriously about the Koni 8611's. Any other users of this shock out there?
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As an update to this post, I'll call it...............
ECONOMICAL RACE STRUT INSERT OPTIONS
Bilstein (VW sport insert) non-adjustable - P30-0032 - $99 ea. Plus $70 for revalve at Shox.com
Advance Design - double adjutable - $399 ea. - Ground Control
Koni 8610-1437RACE - single adjustable - may need revalve - $160 - Summit
Koni 8611-1257RACE - double adjustable - $256 Summit
Carrera 32748 - non-adjustable - Still supported by QA-1? I'm still waiting on quote/answer.
Tokiko - Not suitable for higher spring rates.
For the price, I'm thinking seriously about the Koni 8611's. Any other users of this shock out there?
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I sat in about 10 seats at the PRI show 2 weeks ago in Orlando. I was also very impressed by the Ultra-Sheild. For the money it is hard to beat. It will be the next seat I purchase.
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I can't resist chiming in here. Most conventional oils are very very very good. The last 50 years of adative development has done wonders. Has anyone ever seen an oil related failure? How would you know? I've taken valve covers off of 200,000 mile 70's V8's and couldn't tell I did because the crud mold looked like another cover. Car still ran fine. On the other hand, I've seen new engines wrecked on synthetics because someone didn't oil their foam air filter.
With that said, synthetics are superior to conventional. They don't break down from moisture absorption or excessive heat. (relative terms here) Do you really need that extra margin in your vehicle? Are you going to neglect your oil, subject it to overheating, accidentally pour a Coke in it?
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Go buy a good used F500 car, go to school, and go road racing with something that is faster than all the production based cars out there. Tires last a season, suspension is almost "free" and freshen up engine rebuilds < $500. Or if your into circle track, try a Legends car.
The Strut thread - Koni / Illumina / Tokico / Carrera / Bilstein / Ground Control
in Brakes, Wheels, Suspension, and Chassis
Posted
The answer is: it depends. Camber plates let the strut rod extend further and the 240 struts are already a little shorter, which helps a lot. Again, shoot for static ride height around mid-point of strut travel. If you slam it, you will bottom out the struts.