Mitchel0407

Welkom! It’s good to see you posting here as well.

That’s a bit of what I am trying to do with my own build thread. It’s mainly just a log for myself to build a timeline of everything I’m doing to the car but I also like sharing my discoveries on the forums to hopefully help somebody out in the future. And no I’m not some old sentimental person but just a guy with a love for the S30 body style and L series engine (who will be turning 26 in a little over a month).

Another week has past and another weekend of work has been completed. Luckly the orders I placed where send out pretty fast so I got all the rubbers and bushings I was missing ready to head to work. I started off with finishing the work on the transmission. As the speedometer gear had been leaking, and I didn’t know how much fluid the transmission had lost (or was even serviced the last time), I decided to change the transmission fluid for some Redline MT-90 transmission oil. That was easier said then done as Redline MT-90 is pretty hard to find in Europe. But it appears I was in luck, one performance parts shop here in The Netherlands had a few cans in stock and send them out for me that same day! Even though the transmission mount and crossmember bushings where is decent shape I still decided to chang them out as a precaution. I used a OEM style rubber transmission mount for vibration reduction but polyurethane bushings in the crossmember for added stiffness. Next came the most exciting but also the scariest part. Replacing the front crossmember, engine mounts and oil pan gasket. I wanted to leave the crossmember for last and start by removing the oil pan. To do that and have easier access to the bolts I first removed the steering rack which I gave a quick clean and paint job while I was at it. I might have figured out why the oil pan was leaking in the first place, it turns out about halve the oil pan bolts where loose! Other than that the process was pretty straight forward. Removing the oil pan did give me a pretty interesting look into the engine which felt pretty weird so I quickly reinstalled the oil pan with new bolts. To remove the crossmember I had to find a way to support the engine in the meantime. For this I created my own, incredibly sketchy, engine support bar together with a jack under the crack pully. Even though it was incredibly sketchy it was surprisingly sturdy and stable. But still I hurried as fast and as careful as I could to remove the old crossmember and install the Apex Engineered crossmember. This went surprisingly smooth with the only difficult part being reinstalling the bolts into the new engine mounts. But with a bit of help of the jack and some patience I got them all in and everything safely secured again. Next came the most difficult part of fitting the Apex crossmember braces. The passenger side went without a problem but the drivers side not so much. There the crossmember brace didn’t fit as the car had aftermarket headers and signs of body damage to the left side of the car. The headers where interfering with the brace and the brace was sitting much more forward then the passenger side. This required some modification of the headers (with a hammer) and a few spare washers as spacers to fix. To modify the headers I had to take them off the car which I really hope I won’t have to do a second time as the bolts are really hard to reach. To finish off the weekend I got a call from the body shop telling me my doors and cowl where finished painting! So I immediately got in my car to pick them up and install them back on the car. The installation went pretty good but I didn’t get the doors to sit perfectly flush, the back always sticks out a bit. This may be because of the weather stripping which I assume to be cheap aftermarket. After the doors came the fenders and the rest of the bodywork. As I was missing a lot of bolts around the car I ordered a nut and bolt kit from ResurrectedClassics a while back. During the previous “restauration” (if you can even call that) they just left damaged bolts out or spot welded panels in place. As I absolutely hated that I took my time to retap all the holes or install rivet nuts wherever I could. I also replaced a lot of the bolts with nice plated bolts from the kit. All of this nearly has the car ready for one of the final inspections of it’s life (as they aren’t mandatory anymore after 50 years). I just have a small list of things left to do. - Reinstall the door cards - Reinstall the seats - Set a rough alignment (enough to get me to the shop) - Install the wheels - Install a new set of horns (existing ones have underbody coating in them) - Repaint and install the front grill - Install the new fender mirrors - Install the rear speakers (for now optional) - Replace the pre fuel pump fuel filter (for now optional) And of course clean the car!

No. in my opinion that’s the definition of passion and commitment!

Just like all classic and especially classic sports cars they end up sharply increasing in price once they approach 50 years in age. I always loved the look of the S30 Z cars and I really wanted a classic sports car as a hobby/project car. For me the only affordable option was the Porsche 944 coming in at €10k to €15k for a somewhat decent example. But even those shot up in price the last few years to the point that the price difference between those and S30 Z’s (280z in particular) became pretty low. I ended up paying €22,5k for my 1977 280z at an auction (including auction costs) and put around €4,5k into the car. Mainly comprising of the Apex Engineered suspension parts, body shop (welding frame rails and repainting the doors) and some long overdue maintenance. And yes I overpaid a couple of thousand on my car but at this point I really don’t care anymore as I plan to keep this car for the rest of my life!

I bought my 1977 280z in august of last year and afterwards started looking around at all the available forums and other information sources. This let me to here, the ClassicZcar forum and the WhatsApp group from my local Z/ZX club (Holland). Each I use for a different purpose. - HybridZ: Modified Z projects, technical information, inspiration and keeping up a build thread (mainly for myself). - ClassicZcar: General information and information about stock/original parts or details. - The local Z/ZX club: Meets / rally’s, used parts and local knowledge (we have a few S30 restauration specialists in the group) As the S30 Z is pretty rare here in the Netherlands (and Europe in general) my only option is to use the internet and figure everything out myself. Parts are also hard to come by as my only options are used parts (when they appear online), Zservices in France or importing parts from the USA. As for car culture in general I do agree that it’s slowing down a bit. The cars are becoming more modern, parts are becoming more expensive and complicated and less people have the option of owning two or more cars. In general I’m seeing the economy slowing down and people watching there wallet. That said there are still a lot of interesting S30 Z projects going around. Yes turbo builds are pretty common as they have become easier to make power with and are a relatively cheap power source. But NA or NA ITB builds are also pretty common still among them being the V8 swap. Personally I’m keeping my L28E and will probably end up going the NA ITB route once I upgrade the stock injection (yes I’m keeping the injection and no I don’t want carbs). I do like the sound of the V8 swaps but I also think that they don’t really belong in the S30 Z’s. The Z’s being Japanese cars I find them more suited for inline 6 (NA or turbo) engines. And I just really love the sound of the L series engines. But hé, that’s just my personal opinion.

The rear control arm length issue might just be a factory issue as my stock control arms measured in at 15,5” inches just like the Apex control arms. Up to know my parts have been of great quality (passenger side frame rail excluded) with excellent and tight tolerances. That said I will be installing the front crossmember and front control arms next weekend and will probably update my thread next Tuesday. That said I do believe they might have a slight quality control issue with their suppliers, as for example my passenger side frame rail was plainly bent the wrong way by the supplier.

My pretty long weekend has come to an end and I’m pleased to say that I accomplished a lot in those four days. I started off with finishing the installation of the interieur. Because of the Apex Engineered rear strut brace I had to make some modification to the floor board, carpet and strut covers. This took a bid more time then I had hoped but I managed to finish the interieur within a day. Me and my girlfriend are still slowly working on the seats and the door card but we will probably end up installing those last. Next came (for me) one of the more exiting parts, starting work on the rear end! So it was time to put down my QuickJack’s and take the wheels off….. Never mind, the previous owner installed locking wheel nuts on all four corners and all four lugs at that! So a trip to the parts store for a lug nut removal socket and some angle grinder lathe action later (and about 3 hours) the wheels where finally off. If you told me the rear end was still factory fresh then I would have believed you. All the bolts where incredibly stuck and most of them where cross threaded (thanks previous mechanic). Not to mention all the rubber bushings where pretty worn out. Luckly with some heat, penetrating oil and a hammer all of the bolts came out. The threads there even still usable, lucky me! Before the reinstallation I did retape all the threads and cleaned up all the nuts and bolts. Before reinstalling everything I took my time to replace the differential gasket and change the differential oil for some new Motul 75W90. I also replaced the mustache bar bushings for polyurethane bushings. Removing the old bushings went pretty smoothly with a saw, some fire and a bit of patience. The only problem I had was during reinstallation of the mustache bar. The only way it would fit back in was by rotating the bar 180 degrees, may explain the difficulty removing the bar in the first place. I don’t know if this is the correct orientation but it wouldn’t fit any other way and I can find many pictures online of the bar in both orientations. I decided to leave the bar as is and finish up by finally installing the Apex rear control arms. Man it feels good to finally make some upgrades, the car feels more and more my own. The refresh of the rear end took a bit more time then I initially thought (two days) so before starting on the front, knowing I couldn’t finish it this weekend, I decided to take on some smaller jobs first. The bodywork on the car is a bit of a slopy mess with some signs of surface rust all along the lower edges of the rear of the car together with fading powder coating / paint on the fuel tank. It may be a bit unorthodox but seeing as I have a rust converter spray / paint that’s pretty close in color to the car I just took a sander to the edges and sand away the rust and knock down the body filler on the bottum edge. I also sanded smooth the fuel tank and used the last bit of remaining texture spray to hide the imperfections on the fuel tank. And even if I say so myself I’m pretty pleased with the result, at least the rear of the car is now less of an eyesore. During all the work on the underside of the car I noticed a small oil leak coming from the speedometer pinion gear. A quick search online showed it had an o ring sealing the pinon gear so I quickly popped it partially out and replaced the o ring inside. Another small job of the list! As I still had a bit of time left in the day I tried my luck at removing at least the front control arms. And I don’t know what magic was used but this was the easiest disassembly ever! A little spray of penetrating oil and a quick tuck on the wrench and out came the bolts by hand. Even the front ball joint and tie rods came right out! All in all it was a very productive weekend. I just placed an order for some small stuff like a few new rubbers, normal lug nuts and two new horns (mine have underseal in them) and will be continuing my refresh of the front suspension next weekend. That will be a bit more tricky as I need to replace the oil pan gasket and the front crossmember. Also I know you guys probably find my work space pretty interesting so enjoy!

I finally got around to refurbishing the rear end and installing the Apex rear control arms. I checked my control arms and they too measured in at 15,5” inches. But the funny thing is is that they where the same length as the original control arms!! Anyway the install went smoothly except for the fact that I had to rotate the mustache bar 180 degrees as I couldn’t for the life of me install it another way with the new bushings. That said the bar was incredibly difficult to remove in the first place. P.S. the T3 spindles do indeed appear to be shorter than OEM so adding the extra spacer seams like a good choice.

I would be down for that!

It’s been a long week where in a lot happened, including me getting engaged to my beautiful girlfriend last week! But personal stuff aside we are here for the Z. The body shop couldn’t wait any longer and with my permission they ended up modifying the passenger side frame rail to fit. All in all they did a great job and the end product looked great and above all was very strong. As an added bonus they even gave the frame rails a new coat of underbody spray and drilled two holes in each rail to coat the inside with wax and prevent condensation buildup. This meant I could finally pick the car up last Friday after being over 4 weeks stuck in the shop. By coincidence I was free from work that day so I even got to start the reassembly of the interior starting with the dashboard. And I also quickly strayed the Apex fender braces silver to match the rest of the car. I finished reassembling the dashboard during which I had a little bracket left over. I have studied every possible parts diagram and video but I can’t seen to find where this bracket came from. It was stashed together with all the dashboard parts and bolts but unfortunately I wasn’t smart enough to take pictures of the disassembly. Does anybody know where this little bracket belongs? Anyway I decided to continue the reassembly of the dashboard and reinstall the dashboard into the car. This went rather smoothly even though installing the dashboard all by yourself is a bit of a pain. I immediately tested all the electrical components to see if all the light (which I replaced with LED’s) and gauges still worked. Everything fortunately worked except the tachometer backlight which turned out to just be a reversed polarity, which isn’t an issue for halogen bulbs but is for LED’s. This was easy enough to fix by switching two pins inside the tachometer connector. I’m now at a point where the dashboard is complete and the carpet is mainly in. Because of a national holiday I will have a four day weekend starting this Thursday. This means I can finish the interior of the car and start installing the Apex front and rear control arms, steering knuckles and front crossmember. I really hope these don’t contain manufacturing faults or else they own me a really big apology.

I’m feeling closer and closer to getting the car back on the road!! The car has been dropped off at the body shop almost 4 weeks ago now, which is at least some good progress. Wen I went to drop off the car they already had a lift ready for me so we could put her in the air right away. There we unfortunately found out that one of the Apex Engineered frame rails had a manufacturing mistake. The passenger side frame rail had been bent the wrong way! I immediately contacted Apex true email as somehow international calls weren’t getting trough to them. The responded the next day (+7 hour time difference) and told me they would send me a new pair once they got there new shipment in the next week. Unfortunately they were later then expected with sending out the new pair and I had to fight of the body shop from reproducing the frame rails locally as the Apex once where on there way. This might have been a mistake time wise as 1,5 weeks ago they finally arrived in the Netherlands afterwards they where hold back (and still are) by customs. They said the paperwork was unreadable/missing, the HS (material) code was missing and customs wasn’t agreeing with the declared value of the package, even though I already paid the fees, which shouldn’t be necessary as it’s a warranty item and I technically didn’t pay for it. So while waiting for the frame rails to come in and for me to get the car back I decided to get to work fixing the interior panels and the dashboard. During which I also participated in one of the meets organized by the Z ZX Club Holland and got to ride along in this amazing 3,1 liter stroker 240Z producing an amazing 320ps to the wheels! While working on the interior my girlfriend decided to get involved and make me a custom set of door cards. These will be complimented with custom seat covers and a reupholstered center console. Please not the picture of the door cards is still a early work in progress and we both have never done something like this. I don’t have many before pictures of the interior pieces but I do have photo’s of the finished result. Almost all of the plastic pieces had cracks in them and the center console was even broken in two, but all in all they weren’t too bad for almost 50 year old plastic. I used a plastic welding kit with steel wire inserts to repair and reinforce the damaged sections before sanding them smooth. I roughed up all the pieces with sanding paper before spraying them with plastic primer, black paint and matt 2K clear coat. For some pieces (like the glove box, center console, upper dashboard trim and the rear taillight panel) I used a texture spray to reapply some texture and/or match them to the repaired dashboard. Fun fact, while writhing this and looking up some terms I realize that my interior taillight panel is from a 70-74 240z and not from a 280z. Bit weird but it fits. *First picture is just wet semi-gloss black paint and doesn’t have the matt clear coat yet, the second picture of the center consol has clear coat and is fully dry. To restore the dashboard I followed some good old YouTube video’s and sanded down all the damaged area’s in a V shape before filling them in with a 2K polyester body filler and sanding the dashboard back to shape. The body filler I used bonded really well to the dashboard foam and was easy (with a ton of elbow grease) to sand back into shape. To seal and strengthen the top layer of the dashboard, and help make it smooth, I decided to use UV (3D printing) resin which I applied in layers using a brush and hardened with a UV lamp before putting the dashboard in the sun for a few hours. It was a bit of a gamble but I was pretty pleased with the result. The resin created a strong, hard and naturally very UV resistend layer reinforcing the dashboard. After sanding it smooth, primer, texture spray, paint and matt 2K clear coat the dashboard was done and now looks pretty good if I say so myself. As a finishing touch my girlfriend even customized the dashboard Datsun 280z badge for me using a chrome and a green inlay! I hope to have my car back soon so I can reinstall the interior and install the Apex Engineered control arms. My goal is to have the car road ready before the end of the month.

Welcome to the forum! I’m in a bit of te same boat with my 1977 280z which I’m trying to get back on the road. I would love to see every little step of your journey with the car. In my opinion all possible information is welcome online as some information is pretty hard to find. O and as you have seen the Initial D anime you might also enjoy Wangan Midnight, might even give you some inspiration for modifying your Z. 😉

I’m currently also waiting on some replacement Apex frame rails as the passenger side one had a production fault (was bent the wrong way!). They were also a week late with shipping the new once and even more annoying they are now held up by customs as they are unhappy with the paperwork and declared value of the package. All in all my car has been sitting idle on a lift at the body shop for two weeks now, I hope they won’t charge me too much in storage fees. 😢 I also have the Apex rear control arms and almost there entire front Retro suspension kit lying on the shelve waiting for my car to come back. I really hope I don’t have your issue with the rear control arms being to short. Would you be able to measure both the stock and Apex arms for me? That way I can check mine while I’m still waiting on my car.

I would love to see a full weight comparison between the original and carbon fiber door. I know from lugging my 280z doors around that the factory doors are quit heavy.

A bit more time has past and a bit more work has been done. I have been trying to complete the body work and paint on the doors but I shamefully have to admit that exterior bodywork is not my strong suit. I did get an appointment at the body shop for next week to replace the frame rails and install the Apex front fender braces and asked them to repaint the doors and wiper cowl as well. I guess you win some and you lose some, and boy I lost this one (please don’t judge to hard). I moved on to some other small tasks and replaced the radio antenna for an aftermarket powered one. I did have to solder on a new connector as I don’t have the same connectors and plugs as the factory harness uses but I made sure that any changes are reversible if necessary in the future. I also ran new speaker wires to the aftermarket JBL speakers that came with the car as the existing wires where all corroded from the inside. Here again I used new aftermarket connectors on both sides so the speakers can be easily disconnected or switched from audio channel. The body shop would like the car to stay somewhat drivable under it’s own power so they can easily load her on the trailer and move her around the shop. So I threw on the trickle charger so the battery will be full and see if she will start after a couple of months of sitting still. After a bit of cranking she came to live. After letting her warm up a bit I checked the AFR gauge and to my surprise it was sitting at 14.5 idle! With a bit of gas the AFR rose to 12.3 under power and then settled back down to 14.5 at idle. Did the 280 just fix itself over winter? As the car will be off to the body shop soon I don’t want to just sit around and do nothing until the car is back as I would really like to be able to drive the car somewhere begin May. So I decided to look into the possibility of removing the dashboard while still being able to drive the car. After studying the electrical schematics for a bit I really didn’t see a reason why this shouldn’t be possible so as with anything I just tried it. Worst case scenario I have to put the dashboard back in. Turns out that the dashboard really doesn’t have anything to do with the 280z EFI system. If you disconnect the three big connectors in the passenger footwell and then take the dash out the car starts just fine. So now I have the hilarious combo of a stripped out but still drivable 280z. The car does feel really sad and empty now but soon she will be stronger then ever with some nice suspension upgrades, a new radio and a freshly restored dash and interior panels!

Yesterday after work I decided to just try and remove the dashboard and see what happens. Worst case scenario I have to put the dashboard back in place with a few bolts till she’s back from the body shop. But fortunately I didn’t have to! From what I could understand from the wiring schematics and pictures online the dash shouldn’t have any components or connections preventing the stock EFI from starting and running the engine. The dash just receives signals from the sensors but doesn’t send them. The only wiring connected to the dashboard where three connectors connected to the white panel in the passenger footwell. I disconnected these took out the dashboard and tried to start the engine. She had some trouble as the engine was cold and hasn’t started in a few weeks but after a few seconds she came to live and ran perfectly.

As the title implies I want to find out if a stock 280z with the L28E (fuel injected) can start and run without the dashboard. My 1977 280z will be dropped of at the body shop next week for new Apex Engineered frame rails and front fender braces. The body shop would like to have the car running so it’s easier to move around the shop. In the meantime I would like to restore my dashboard and replaced a few tings like the bulbs and the speedometer. But for that I need to know if I can remove the dashboard and still be able to start the car. Does anybody know if the 280z can be started without a dashboard?

You might find more info in his build thread.

What will be the main purpose of the car for you? What do you want the car to be? Seeing as you will be installing a roll gage, iMSA widebody kit and an LS big block for I suspect power and torque, you will mainly track the car and won’t be driving on the road. I like your choice of Apex over T3 but that’s my personal preference. But why the Pro Touring and not the Track Attack kit? Also don’t forget the basics of the build like chassis reinforcement, safety features and fuel delivery. These chassis are over 50 years old so if you plan to track and abuse them make sure the basics are good, rust free and reinforced. A good roll cage will do a lot together with the frame sleeves and some bolt on parts but things like seem welding the chassis will also help a lot. VA Engineering over here in the Netherlands has some great pictures on their Instagram of their cages and seem welds. The transform the S30 Z’s into period correct rally cars and yes they do get used like a rally car should.

You are flying true this! Love to see your progress!

I find the front strut brace very interesting, is it connected to the cage thru the firewall? I suspect this will mainly reinforce the strut tower from moving front to back. Will you also be adding a front strut brace for side to side reinforcement? I will be sending my 280z off soon for replacement 3mm (instead of 1,5mm) frame rails from Apex together with there front fender braces as they where not that expensive and my body shop won’t charge me extra for welding them. I wonder how different the fender braces will be in comparison.

Good to have you back! Do you have some pictures of the cars and what’s been done to them?

The money is a big consideration but the main point is more what it’s worth to you. Do you want a particular setup and is the money more secondary, is money a primary driver, do you want to slowly upgrade or go all at once. I see a lot of people mention only the costs of the build but if somebody is really passionate about something then it doesn’t matter as much. For example the fuel injection on my ’77 280z isn’t in the greatest shape, she drives good enough but the AFR readings aren’t the best (extremely rich at idle and slightly lean at open throttle). The economical thing to do is to just swap over some triple Webber carbs, but since I would like to keep the fuel injection I decided to, eventually, slowly upgrade the fuel injection with a new ECU and a set of ITB’s. I might spend 3 to 4 times the money but I’ll have a car that I want, as I like it.

I really like the L28’s as they have a lot of character and an amazing sound but a used VQ would also be a great option. I don’t know exactly what you would need but It may be a good idea to get a wrecked donor 350z and use its drivetrain components together with the Pro Touring or Track Attack suspension kits from Apex Engineered. That may be the easiest route if you want to go VQ or even RB (there subframe accepts loads of different engines). But if costs are a driving factor then finding and even building another 350 might be the best option. A swap done right can run you $10k to $15k easily as it’s not just the engine you need to swap but also the driveline, suspension components and electronics.