Zerrari GTO

Hi Dan, I'm glade you have started participating on this thread. The knowledge you have from your Z build (extensive bodywork and V8 conversion) is a welcome addition. I have already taken from some of your ideas and incorporated them in my V/R. My removable panels in the trunk floor are a result of reading about your battery, fuel tank, exhaust install. Please keep the ideas coming. In the past I've read a couple of your comments where you mentioned you would like to build a V/R...are you thinking about taking the plunge???!!!

Boy from Oz, I really don't think there is a better alternative to filling the void between the Z body and the V/R with expanding foam. If done properly and the void is mostly filled with foam it creates a very, very strong support for the tub. As John Washington mentioned in his V/R manual; it is the same process used on aircraft wings. The foam spreads the load of the tub evenly and does a lot more work than the connection point of the tub to the body. Even if at some point if the foam separates from the Z body, the fit conforms so closely to the Z sheet metal that I don't think it would effect the structural integrity too much. Because this is such an important aspect of the tub mounting, my biggest concern is with the quality of the foam used. You definitely don't want something that will break-down over time or retain moisture. Con Brio, I've been thinking about the same thing. I like your idea of the side latches and have been contemplating those. I've also seen some cool pin locks for the top of the bonnet but they don't lock (to keep curious spectators from checking things out) and then there is the issue of the bonnet bowing-out when you button it down. What I was thinking was to use the pin locks up top and then use a couple of key locks on each side of the bonnet to lock it down and keep everything in alignment. I have seen some retro key hole covers that would hide the key hole and look very respectable on the car. Here is one for an old VW Bus: http://www.bfyobsoleteparts.com/Bus-Engine-Lid-Lock-Key-Hole-Cover-&-Seal-ca-0-pr-3456-pg-4.html. There also were some neat ones used on the old Chevy Corvairs (they show up on ebay fairly often).

Hey guys, I hope you don't think I am trying to slam John in any way by what I'm about to say. He is a very nice guy who I have had several phone conversations with and exchanged countless emails. The key word in John's post is "compromise" and his suggestions are meant to be an alternative to products that are more expensive. As you all know, this project is not a "cheap date" by any stretch of the imagination. The cost of the kit, installing frame rail connectors, countless suspension mods, engine swaps, etc., etc. etc., so the last thing I personally would want to do is create a "weak link" in the construction. I am still very weary of using body filler as a bonding agent. If you ask any of the auto body guru's on HybridZ they will probably cringe at the idea. Steve Graber's V/R was the one that really got my "motor going" for this project after seeing his V/R website and photos of the completed car. Fortunately for me his car was sold to someone here in Atlanta and John was nice enough to contact the new owner so I could see the car and take a ride in it. When I arrived, the car looked good from a distance but once I got close I could see some bad stress fractures/delamination on the body were the tub was bonded near the rocker panels. I have no idea what Steve used but whatever it was... it did not last. The cost of the 3M Automix product that is specifically made for bonding fiberglass to metal is more expensive (about $200 for the whole car: door skins, windshield cap, tub) but I will happily pay the extra money for the peace of mind it gives me. Here is a good thread on the subject: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=80057. The key to using this type of adhesive is having enough surface area for it to be effective. I wound up fabbing a 3" fiberglass lip inside the tub for this purpose. As far as spray foam goes; I would not touch the stuff. I have experimented with the various types: "Great Stuff" etc. by bonding pieces of fiberglass together and was not impressed. When I heard it has a tendency to retain water, there was no way I was going to use it. The thought of foam full of moisture held next to the steel body of the Z car (even one painted with Por15) was not what I had in mind. The two part marine foam is more expensive...but not too much, and will give you superior performance (see page 15 of this thread). I simply have way too much money and sweat equity in the building of this car to use products that could significantly compromise the structural integrity of the body (especially when products exist that are perfectly suited for these applications). Once this thing is done, I do not ever want to second guess the choices I made...and I definately don't want to see any cracks or delamination like what developed on Steve Graber's car. My two cents.

You Are A Dick!

I've been in contact with him recently about just this subject. He told me that the molds were outdated and his suggestion was to cut the lip off of the tub that wraps around into the door jamb. He then said to just use body filler to adhere the tub to the body...Well, I was not very satisfied with this answer/method...to say the least. I wound up cutting the lip off and then I knocked the door jam back about 3/8"-1/2" for a little clearance. After this I splashed a couple of molds of the door jams so that I would have a "base" of glass to mold/adhere the tub to the body. The jamb molds follow the metal seam inside the jamb and blend very nicely. These fiberglass "jamb pieces" were then glued using 3M automix panel adhesive and then riveted to the body. The reason I went to such great lengths to create this fiberglass "base" was that after reading countless articles it seems that after time, even the 3M adhesive can delaminate due to differences in the expansion of the glass vs. the metal when the temp. changes. I also wanted to have a lot of surface area to glue the "jamb" pieces to the car and then glass the tub onto the body. I then glassed-in the tub from the inside and outside using alternating layers of stranded mat and cloth. The result is a very thick bond that should not separate from the body...and it should look very factory when all the molding/sanding is done.

I've done some research and there are a few posts in this thread regarding spray foam for the rear tub. Spray foam holds moisture and is not the best type of product for this application. Two part marine foam does not retain moisture and seems to have better adhesion properties. Chelle posted a link to a company that sells this type of foam or I will be happy to get you the name of the company I purchased from.

Thanks for the clarification espeery and welcome. Keep us posted on your progress; I'm sure I'll have some questions for you as my project progresses.

...if I am understanding this and your previous post correctly, are you saying that you have re-molded/shaped and welded your stock Z sheet metal to form a GTO body??? (convertible that is). If so, you've got a lot of explaining to do. I can't wait to here how you did it.

...did you get busted Chelle????? Hehe.

Welcome to the group SuperDan. The information available on this website and the help you will receive from other members is invaluable. There is no way I would want to attempt my project without this resource. Please keep us updated on your project and post photos of your progress whenever you can. I'm looking forward to hearing about your build.

I was told that you should use rivets of the same metal as the material you are joining (steel rivets on steel body panels, etc.). Anybody have any experience with this?

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was planning on three-four layers (alternating stranded mat and cloth) over the rivets. I just wanted to be sure those rivets didn't come back to haunt me!

There is a place on my V/R rear tub that will need to have a small patch of glass that will wrap into the door jamb. It will need to be several layers thick so I was going to lay one or two layers and then rivet it to the door jamb to help prevent delamination from the body. I was then going to lay 2-3 layers over this riveted layer. My question is: Will the rivets present a problem later such as eruptions in the glass? Thanks.

Great information Boat Bum; that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

I thought the admins. encouraged adding to existing threads rather than starting new ones on the same subject. I will always add to an old thread if it pertains to the subject I am asking about. What's the big deal with bringing up an old thread???

Since I will have headlight covers I am interested in coverting to halogen bulbs for ease in changing them. I want to keep the headlights as "old school" looking as possible so I was thinking of these: http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/HTH Is this the converstion that has a lot of wash and is hard to direct the beam? If so, what is a better solution (I don't want projectors). Thanks.

I am ready to foam the rear tub on my car for the V/R kit and would like some suggestions/experiences with the various insulating foams on the market. I'm doing an experiment by shooting foam on a piece of fiberglass and laying another piece on top of it and sandwiching the foam. I want to measure the expansion and see how well the foam adheres to the fiberglass. The only one I've done so far was for the product "Great Stuff" which is commonly found at home improvement stores. It expanded from 1/2 inch high to about 3/4ths and did not stick to one of the pieces very well (the other was good). I didn't like the way it flowed when sprayed so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. I posted this thread/question on the GTO builders sticky but sometimes things get overlooked there.

I am ready to foam the rear tub on my car for the V/R kit and would like some suggestions/experiences with the various insulating foams on the market. I'm doing an experiment by shooting foam on a piece of fiberglass and laying another piece on top of it and sandwiching the foam. I want to measure the expansion and see how well the foam adheres to the fiberglass. The only one I've done so far was for the product "Great Stuff" which is commonly found at home improvement stores. It expanded from 1/2 inch high to about 3/4ths and did not stick to one of the pieces very well (the other was good). I didn't like the way it flowed when sprayed so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Cheap date: ugly but a fast and fun ride. Expensive date: beautiful, sexy and a fast fun ride. ...Nissan wants an expensive date price for cheap date looks.

Very cool indeed. Please post more pics when you can; Grumpy is right, this thread may become a revitalized source for Z31/sbc conversions. The Jag IRS is really cool...got to love the inboard discs. Are those stock valve covers with a crinkle finish on them? They look damn good if they are.

Yea, no matter how you slice it, the GTO conversions are kit cars. It doesn't hurt my feelings a bit; it is going to allow me to have a car that was never offered but one I always wanted (GTO convertible). It all boils down to how talented/visionary you are coupled with if you have the resources or know-how to make it all come together. I'll check-out your site...all the help I can get is appreciated. Just listen to your subscribers if you want it to grow.

I think the Thunder Ranch kit is closer to the real thing. It has a hood vs tilt front like the V/R and the nose looks more like the origional to me. Keep in mind, none of the Z based kits are going to fool anybody in the know. The doors and roof/windshield aren't even that close when you compare them side by side. I chose the V/R kit because I wanted a 60's style V8 roadster but felt there were already too many AC Cobras running around in Atlanta. Good luck, I hope you get a kit and join us on the GTO builders thread.