Mikelly

Pete, How does approximately 392HP at the crank on a bone stock, tired 114K mile LS1 sound? That is what you can estimate from my dyno numbers back in January. Getting 500Crank HP out of an LS1 is CAKE... We are using larger valves and Dave did a LOT of port work. We have the STOCK BORE and STROKE and our compression ratio will be 10.5:1 with a mild 224/224 114 lsa 556 lift cam. I have ridden in a camaro that has the same setup and he is turning 11s on drag radials in a car that was weighed at the track at 3540# with full tank of fuel and some stereo gear in it. He also turned 445HP at the wheels with the IDENTICAL setup to mine, MINUS the larger valves, injectors and tuning. Add to that the absolute EASE of tuning it, once you have figured the basics out. The ease of driving it, and the ease of maintenance. Here is WHY I'm such a huge fan of this powerplant... EVERY MAJOR aftermarket parts manufacturer is spooling up something for this platform. The LS1 is simply THAT popular. Supposedly SEMA was crawling with tons of LS1/LS2/LS6 aftermarket parts from ALL of the major manufacturers... it is OUR generation small block chevy. Mike

I"d counter all the comments against the LS1 by saying I had one built with forged Pistons and Rods, ARP bolts Everywhere, started with a new GM block and a NEW GM Crank and a NEW set of GM heads... We gutted the heads,ported them and installed new valves and complete valve train from http://www.thunderracing.com and I searched the web for the other bits and pieces.. With LGM headers and an LS6 intake w/ Shaner ported Tbody, I'm going ot have a balanced and blueprinted 500+ (Expecting 520-ish) horsepower and close to that in torque. In porting the heads, we left a bit of HP on the table for an even larger cam in the future.... My total out of pocket has been $6200 to date and I'm using some of those parts on the Corvette right now... I've seen complete LS1 Motor and tranny setups (T56 or auto) sell for $2000, INCLUDING wiring harness and computer. Hit the yards in the winter when people are desperate for cash... My current LS1 has 114K miles on it, turned 335HP & 353#ft. of torque. To build the "right" 383 stroker or 4** SBC with forged bits and to get it right, my guess is you'll still have well over $4500 in it. PLus you'll not get the drivability or efficiency and predictability with a carb'ed V8. Can you short cut it and use PM rods and cast pistons? Sure... Anyone can. But what do you really plan to do with the car? If you only want 275-325 HP, go for it... Just know what it is you are going to have when the tools are put away and you're coming back to the board asking why it isn't running 12s. Mike

John, Did you have any ground clearance problems at the track last week? Mike JTR, You probably need to POLL the group to see who wants what... We have more people in this thread with manual transmissions that would buy headers than autos, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. I know JOhn, Pete, Mark I., Jim M., and Myself would be able to spend that kind of money. I know there are a LOT of other members who have mentioned wanting better headers. I just can't speak to their ability to cough up a large nut like $750+ shipping. Tim Hepburn made some tri-Ys that looked like the BEST PROTOTYPE for our application.. They had a long merge and looked an aweful lot like the LGM headers I just installed on my C5 Corvette/ LS1. Heat soak on the headers... I think the shield is one solution. The other that I would recommend doing WITH the shield is to move to a remote starter solenoid and MOVE the solenoid out of the engine bay. Mine will go inside the car, in the area where the factory fuse panel on a 280Z WAS once located. I moved one on a previous V8 Car to the fenderwell behind the tire and did away completely with my heat soak issues, but this car is a track car, so I'll pu a lot of things in the passenger compartment on this project. As to hammering the floor boards, I think anyone who has done your swap isn't affraid of breaking out the hammer to widen the tunnel. Most of us did our own swaps and understand first hand the challenges you faced in pioneering this swap (Although Kim Blough, Mother of all Hybriders ~cough ~Bullshyte~ would have us all bow at his feet). Come up with a prototype, or contact Tim offline to see what he did. I think he had some great ideas and could possibly put you in touch with the guy who bought the headers from him. Bottom line is this application will only suit guys pushing above 400HP and needing better exhaust flow, due to more cubes, or a forced induction application. Most hybridZers will be fine with block huggers... Hell I ran 10.98s in a 383/ T56 combo with 1 5/8th block huggers, so they aren't "that" restricting... But spending the kind of dough most of us have spent, it would be a shame to leave 20HP and 30#ft. of broad and usable torque on the table... Mike

I've seen and been a part of this in the past... How many times have any of you seen something online or at the store, on an impulse, Bought it, and then shook your head a month later in wonderment of your own stupidity? This happens all the time when guys go to shops and "ASK" about having some work done. I like the guys at Express Auto who are working on Jim's car. But some of the work they are doing isn't explained well to Jim. A job that seems on paper like it would take 10 minutes can and sometimes DOES take ALL DAY, if you want it done right. Sometimes things don't go as planned and sometimes things can blow up in your face, for the shop owner, and the customer. I HATE reading these "This shop screwed me" posts, because often times there are THREE sides to the story... What the customer asked for, What the Shop owner Agreed to deliver, and what his skills and the customer's money produced! Mike

Since the other guys have covered the "I can't believe someone is asking this and not searching" thing, I'll throw in what I would recommend... I can NOT imagine spending a dime on anything OTHER THAN an LS1/ LS6 based motor. They are where all attention is turning in the chevy aftermarket world. I'm currently buttoning up my 383 stroker to get it in the car and running. And I've got a Second LS1 that is being finished up in Jacksonville, Arkansas. I would stuff the LS1 in in less than a heart beat if I could unload my brand new 383 stroker... The LS1 is just SOOO much more tunable, makes so much more power STOCK and is easy to get to make BIG HP. PLUS the motor is 85-90# lighter to start with... I'm all about lightening my car, so That is another pressing issue... Plus, having lived with an LS1 in my daily driver (99 C5 Vette), I'm amazed at the power the thing makes with just bolt ons and the fuel efficiency of the whole package! Mike

Well I"m an amsoil dealer, but I won't push a product on you... GO HERE: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com to get some edumication in petrolium products. I'm running Amsoil in all my stuff and right now I"m changing the truck's oil at 12-14K miles and the Vette, I change between 6-8K miles INCLUDING track events... I've had independant tests run on the oil with EXCELLENT success. I'm N-O-T an additive fan at all! The key is using group 4/5 Synthetic oils. Mike

Dr. Hunt, you are a little slow my friend... I lost faith in the Justice system the day I turned in my badge and changed jobs...It was in 1988... I've got a degree in criminal justice and I could tell you stories that would make your head hurt... Cops and teachers... They get paid so little, what type of "qualified" person do you think will be attracted to that job? No wonder half the cops in law enforcement wouldn't make the cut for a simple confidential security clearance. Sad state of affairs... Mike

That was it! Thanks John! Mike

Forgot to mention further... You can get those headers direct from S&S for $379 PLUS shipping... Cheers... Mike

I had a set of those headers in hand and I'll add a couple of comments and ask a few questionts in my quest to aid you in your need for info on this issue. I currently HAVE a set of S&S headers and I'm assisting with the build up of another members car at a local shop.. So I think I'm kinda qualified here... The S&S header has at least as GOOD a ground clearance (If not more) than the MSA header offered in the V8 kit (As has been mentioned... Same header!) ... and it appears that the S&S isn't the best solution for ground clearance... Are you going to LOWER the car? Are you worried about ground clearance? Do you plan to drive the car into parking lost or steep driveway? If you answered YES to any of these, the MSA header is gonna be an issue... The S&S header and the MSA header are NOW the same header... Only difference I'm aware of from the late 90s is the rotation of the merge collector... Just keep in mind that on a car with 4 inches clearance from the frame rail to the ground, the header had about 2 3/4 inches to concrete... We have bought back a little clearance with Jim's car and mine by doing the whole slip fit exhaust meathod and losing the three bolt flange... I still think I'm going to have to raise the coil overs to get the cars up a bit... These are road race track day/ instructional cars, so it isn't THAT big a deal, but for daily street and strip use, you will have issues. I'm absolutly of the opinion that a custom header shop will have to step up to resolve this issue... The S&S folks are not interested in tweeking their design for better fitment. They are of the opinion that their desing is "The" best solution available, never mind the complaints about lack of ground clearance and poor fitment issues... I'm convinced they are smoking crack, but that is another story for another day... the S&S system is the best solution currently "mass" produced, and I use that term loosly! Cheers and good luck... Mike

OK, I will not laugh at these. I am married to a blond... I'm resisting the urge... must .... Not .... Laug...Bwahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahaha Mike

True, AND it may fix a problem in ONE situation, and make it worse in another... This is not a magic cure for bumpsteer and I believe Mr. Coffey has the single best defenition of Bumpsteer (in another thread somewhere here) that I have ever read. It will help explain a lot. Mike

John, I had no idea you were instructing... Sad to hear about NASA, as I was leaning towards doing some of their events... I really liked the last event at VIR with the TRIAD Zcar Club and THSCC. I'll keep those guys in mind when I sign up for future events... I really want the Z back together... Don't want to beat on the Vette to much more... Mike

Yup, and the reason I went with Paul Cangialosi. His reputation was far superior and he was more concerned with the quality of the product. He was taking the G Force parts and further refining them to better, tighter tolerances. The transmission he was building was far superior to that of G Force. Unfortunately he was on the bottom of their supply list and owed them Zero, as he always paid on COD, rather than billed later... Guy bought $30,000 worth of G Force parts last year, only to be low on their list... I ordered my transmission back in September of last year, when we ordered mine and Jim's. Now we have Jim's and I have to find something else... Looks like I may end up with a TKO600... Not real happy, since I've already purchased my Lakewood Bellhousing and I'll need to return it. Also need to find the receipt so I CAN return it... this really sucks... Mike

So I get a call this evening from Paul and Fivespeed Transmissions/ MetatroniX this afternoon. Seems Paul has had trouble with delivery from Bubba at Gforce for quite a while now and today it came to a head... Paul is no longer going to make transmissions using Gforce parts and this included the trans I was in line for... I'm high and dry, and I'm reluctant at calling up Bubba himself to get a trans from... Paul was doing some custom work to the parts once he got them from Bubba and company, and this has left me without a source for the trans as this time... So guys, I need recommendations... I have a bellhousing for a T5 and I really don't want to have to send it back... Damn! Mike

I will not be making further runs of that control arm or any for sale to the public. I would be more than happy to walk you or anyone through it, but I simply don't have much time to do much more than work on my own stuff and keep the honey-dooo list down to a minimum. Mike

Jamie, Pete and I were just discussing this... I'll contact you offline... You, doug, Pete, Maybe Jody and I need to all get together in my garage and burn some metal... Mike

Just ordered the three gun set over the weekend and I'll be spraying my own car soon enough... Northern Tool had the three guns and regulator for $139 I think. Mike

YUp, I have the Canton unit and I'm thinking about selling it to upgrade to an AMSOIL unit... The canton units work VERY well, and I just ran mine off a toggle switch! Mike

I don't recall mine sitting that low. Jody, Are you using the spacer between the front cross member and the chassis (JTR pieces)? Jolane, I think that with any motor that is going to flow above 400HP, you really need increased volume and primaries below 1 3/4 will hurt power significantly across the range. I'd Love to get some 1 7/8th headers, but the only way I see that happening is to buy a kit or pay someone to fabricate them... Oh well...The joy of stuffing a Chevy into a Datsun, No? Jody, I was getting ready to start cutting my pan up... Glad you posted pics... I now see what I need to do! Mike

That looks like a suitable replacement for the turnbuckles I had John Williams make for my custom arms I used to sell...and at a cheaper price... HMMMM... Mike

I ran a centerforce DF setup in my L6 and it was fine. My motor turned about 247Hp at the crank and the car was running low 13s and I never dealt with clutch slippage... I've since used the same setup in a T56 equipped 383 stroker, and will use it with the same motor and a Custom T5 pushing over 500Crank HP! Mike

You won't need to row the gears as much on an LS1 equipped car... Here is a GOOD example... At Virginia International Raceway, a 3.4 mile road course, I'm using TWO gears right now, and probably won't be using more than three gears as I get "Good" in my LS1/ T56 Equipped C5. Even in the slowest corner (OakTree is a 180 degree turn and is taken at less than 40mph) I'm in third gear. As I get good, I'll Down shift to 2nd there and come out a little hotter IF I can keep the car smooth! The LS1 makes so much usable torque down low that you don't "Need" to shift. It will lug along in 6th gear at 1100RPMs and 50 mph! I drove a TTRX7 and know what you mean about really working the shifter to get back into the power band... You won't experience that in an LS1. Mike

JUst be careful the bearings you get... There are GOOD quality bearings and CRAP bearings... And Jamie T. has Aluminum hubs ready to ship right now with bearings and races installed AND with nice race studs for $425! I have a set of Jamie's and Ross' at my shop right now... The difference is Jamie's setup allows for an "Over Hub" brake rotor setup (New OEM design) and his center cap bolts on with three small machine screws instead of threading on... I found that getting the grease cap off Ross' hub was almost impossible to remove without damage to the finish once it is on. Ross' design is just like the OEM 300ZX hub and bolts the rotor on from behind, which means it pushes the wheels out 3/4 inch further, and can cause (As did with Jim M.s car) fitment/ interferance issues with the fender to front wheels if you have a custom wheel application... Both hubs are nice pieces, and I'm not dinging one over the other, just giving my comparison, after installing and working with each. I'll Also be selling my 300ZX front hubs I just got from Zbarn once I swap my hubs over to the Rivercity Speed Hubs. They have Moroso Studs and new bearings and races installed. Mike

Since this thread is still alive... I"m on car #2... 1976 Shell W/ Pete's framerail design DONE - FREE (Got it and a BUNCH of parts for $1000 and sold a bunch of parts FOR $1000 so in the end the car was free!) Rebuild of 383 Stroker W/ forged bits and balance/ blueprint/ assembly of shortblock - $1400 Already had the motor, but sent the heads to be cleaned and new valve springs installed - $380 Flywheel - $120 Sheetmetal Valve Covers - $160 Harmonic balancer and bolt - $280 Canton oil system/ pan - $480 I already have the MSD box, The canton Accusump, and all the fuel system parts/ braded lines/ fittings/ plumbing for clutch and brakes from a previous project. (My guess is all that stuff new would be about $2000 combined since we're talking about a LOT of Wilwood, ARP & AQP stuff. GC Coil overs - $420 Tokico Struts - $360 Material for my custom front and rear control arms/ TC RODs - $300 Powder Coating - Free (Traded Jamie some stuff for labor) TWO R230 Diffs - FREE (Traded an LSD R200 setup) Custom R230 Speedway Eng. Axles - $350 (Sold my R200 Adapters and axles for $350. Cost of the R230s should have been $700, But I offset it with selling these!) R230 Brace $75 Misc. R230 Parts and drilled Mustach Bar - $125 River City Speed aluminum 5 Lug Hubs - $425 TREMEC TKO600 tranny - Free - Did some work for Jim M. and he was nice enough to buy the tranny ($1850 Retail!) Centerforce Clutch Kit - $270 Misc. Clutch/ tranny/ bellhousing parts - $450 Paint for the chassis & engine bay - $50 Corbeau A4 seats - $670 shipped Corbeau Seat rails - $70 Autometer Gages - $340 Summit Fuel Cell - $189 Carbon tail light panel - $189 (I think, Been a long time since I paid for it) I suspect I'll have another $5K in the rest of the build, since I've still got paint work to do, the cromoly cage to wrap up, and miscilanious parts left to buy like brake rotors, race tires, some ducting work to complete for the cooler setups. This car will be BARELY street legal, but not very street driven... Building it as a track day car. Mike