nienberg.11

Over xmas break I went to take my car out for some spins when the roads cleared up. I had it a couple miles from my house and decided it was warm enough to run it into boost. As soon as I did, the car shut off. I pulled over, and concluded that my fuel pump wiring had crapped out, and rewired it right there, which got the car running again. A couple miles later, I stomped on it. It felt like crap, so I let off right away. It was sounding weird and running badly so I pulled over again. When I opened the hood, the fuel pump was straining like crazy, as it had not shut off with the car, being rewired. The fuel pressure guage seemed to be reading 0, but as it turned out, it was pegged on the wrong side of the needle, well over 120 psi. One of my fuel hoses was leaking so I pulled out the wiring for the pump and took a few steps back. The fuel pressure bled off, and I got it back home. Further testing with the motor off showed that as soon as anything over atmo pressure hit the fmu, it would lock at full pressure. I called Bell Engineering about this, and talked to a real knowledgeable guy who told me what had most likely gone wrong, how to disassemble the device, and offered to send me parts for free. Turns out I was talking to none other than Corky Bell himself! I've read Maximum Boost, and learned about 90% of my turbo knowledge from Corky, so needless to say I was star struck. I disassembled the fmu, and as it turned out, particles from my original fuel rail had bent the shim inside it, as he predicted. Corky sent me 2 more shims free of charge once I figured that out. Definitely the best customer service I've ever gotten. I'm gonna install a filter right in front of the fmu to keep this from happening again, and if it happens again, I'm selling the fmu and going with a 1:1 aeromotive regulator. And yes, I realize this is one more strike against the FMU for aftermarket efi guys, but the car really runs awesome when the fmu is working right, so I'm giving it another try.

Cameron, I've done what you're thinking of doing on my '77. You should read about the mods I used here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105932 Anyways, there's a lot of negativity toward not using the l28et on this site, which is not totally unfouded, but the fact of the matter is that most people on here have never actually tried it. My car runs real strong w/ the t3/t4 bolted on and I'm still using the stock ecu. I'm only running 7 psi at the moment, but the car is fast. It had me laughing like a lunatic when I first took it out and mashed the gas. I was breaking the tires loose in first and second, and easily breaking my old top end limit. You can call my setup crude but the fact remains that it the car is fast and I did it on the cheap. Thats all that matters to me. I'm a college student like you, so I can totally relate to your financial situation. If you can get your hands on an l28et and do that swap cheaply, that's awesome, and I'd recommend that, since it would result in about the same downtime for the car. Anyways, good luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

That sounds all right Savegeskater, I'll have to see if I can find an example of what you're talking about. I still don't quite understand what happens to the stock head unit, or where the new head unit would be located. Is the faceplate device wireless or something?

Phantom, I could not find the photo gallery you mentioned, and I didn't have time to look through all 50 of your update threads to find the one that described your system, but it sounds like you have some good ideas that are real close to what I'm trying to do. If you could clarify a bit on where I can find the info on your setup I'd appreciate it. -Mike

Eric, I am not aware of any storage compartments in my car. I have the coupe, not the 2+2, if that makes any difference. Someone re-carpeted the car and may have covered these compartments, but I have seen no sign of anything behind my seats. I could very well use the tire compartment though, I just hate to lose that space for storing some tools etc. Z draci, I really would love to put a better deck in the car, but like I said, I can't.... certain elements in my neighborhood have a tendancy to smash and grab for anything shiny or new that meets their eyes. Thats interesting that a new deck can make that much difference though.

Hey guys, I need some input on my upcoming speaker install. My 280z is going to be my daily driver throughout this spring and summer, and most of fall, and I'm figuring on putting a decent sound system in it so I don't go into withdrawal after driving my Avenger with its nice stock system. Long trips w/ no Rammstein make me very grumpy . Anyways, I'm a student and while at school I live in a very bad neighborhood, so a flashy deck and large visible speakers are sure to get stolen. That's why I'm planning on keeping this crappy deck: It's pretty lame, but it works and has an input jack on it, so I can directly connect an mp3 player into it, and take that out of the car while it's parked so there's nothing good to steal in sight. Currently, the car has the 2 stock speakers as well as 2 small speakers in its doors. For reasons unknown to me at the moment, I can turn the volume all the way up on my deck and it's just barely loud enough to hear over any road noise. Also, the sound quality from the stock speakers sucks, so I have to get rid of them. Here is what I plan on doing with the speakers. I plan on sinking two subs just below the floor of my rear deck surface and putting some metal mesh over them to avoid damage from things being dropped over them, like this: As for the stock speakers, I would like to use this location to hide yet another midrange? set of speakers, much like the ones in the doors of my Avenger, but smaller. I would also like to keep the speakers in my doors and use them as tweeters. This is just an idea, and as you might be able to tell, I've never worked with car audio b4, so I'm sure there are some flaws in this plan. Let me know what you guys think. If anyone has suggestions on good speakers I could pull at a jy, please let me know. I would like to take some from an Avenger or Sebring b/c I know those are decent, but I'm sure there are better stock speakers out there. I want to get some stock ones and nothing new and flashy since it all has to be hidden anyways.

Well guys this thread is pretty old, and now the car is mostly done and running. Bashing fmu's is all well and good; I realize there are better ways to manage fuel for a turbo car. However, it took me very little time, effort, or money to set up, and as TheSkrich testified in my other more recent thread, the car is quite fast at only 7 psi. Since it's running so well, I have no plans to upgrade to MS or any other aftermarket EFI. I need to install my IC and tune w/ windeband, and after that I plan to drive the car and enjoy it. I see no need to fix problems that arent there and waste money as well as time that could be spent having fun with the car.

Driftn, The third design looks sexy. Great work. The giant 'Z' in the front is a nice touch. Let's people know you're proud of the car you started with and not trying to change it into something it's not. That Z is painted on an IC, right?

There is nothing better than a girl takes an interest in your Z. Especially if she's hot like the drawing indicates

I concur with ngrimm on the fuel pressure gauge. As far as the pump not running when the key is first turned to the 'on' position, you might want to rewire it rather than hunt down whatever you may have missed. I referenced my fuel pump relay to the fuse for my fuel gauge. Having done this, my pump is running any time the key is turned to the 'on' position. Once you get the gauge installed, check for pressure drops while under load. I had a major fuel restriction from a clogged secondary filter, and the fuel pressure would totally cut out any time I hit the gas. Your power issues could also be due to a combination of restrictions. You should consider going to a K and N universal air filter, or at least something that flows better than the stock filter. I don't know what you have on the car now, but of course a straight-through exhaust is a good thing to have. Most members on here prefer 3" exhaust piping, and if you can get that, go for it. Once you get everything flowing well, the car should run all right.

lmao. thats some good ricer-bashin'

As far as the first sketch, refer to my sig for my opinion on that. The second one looks much better, though. It manages to change the appearance of the car a lot without making it reek of rice. The enormous, towering wing in the first one really turned me off, and in the second one there is still too much open space on the front for my taste. Also, the mesh that covers the open spaces conjures images of a ricer from my high school who cut out and spray-painted some chicken wire for the for the same purpose on his civic. If you draw another one maybe put an IC in there and take out some of the mesh. I'll be looking forward to the next revision! -Mike

I'm sure I'm not the only one to do this, but yeah, after my 3rd clock went out on me, I figured I'd make better use of the space in my dash and adapted the boost gauge into the clock housing.

Clifton, when you say 'stock jy block,' are you talking about an l28et, or a stock n/a block and n/a pistons like what Prox and I are running? Like Prox, I'm worried that even when properly tuned, the n/a motors will fail at a certain boost level/HP due to their pistons having thinner ring lands, among other factors. Running the n/a cam is also something that concerns me. What is your take on our situation? Also, what is C16? -Mike

I run my 1.5" wg pipe to the atmosphere and it isnt loud at all. The car is nearly silent off boost since the regular 2.5" exhaust has a glasspack inline w/ the muffler. When the wg opens it breaks the silence a little and complements the inevitable acceleration thats happening at that point, but is nowhere near loud. I don't know why other peoples' are so loud unless they're running shorter pipes or bigger diameter pipes, but I love having mine straight to the atmo. If the sheet of ice ever melts off of my road I'll get a video from in the car posted on here so you all can hear what I'm talking about.

Cygnus, my '77 does the exact same thing, and it is definitely NOT vacuum! When the filler cap is removed, it literally rearranges my hair! I have not had any issues with my fuel pump or the car running badly however. My fuel tank vent line is set up just like yours. I have the carbon canister removed and a filter on the end of the vent line. The car did the same thing with all of its lines in a stock configuration also.

Drax, I see what you are saying, but in my case, I have the afm adjusted so that my turbo injectors are not creating overly-rich conditions below atmospheric pressure. I was working under the assumption that 24OZ had also leaned out the afm, but if he hadn't I see your point about how he could run pig-rich under normal conditions and come out all right for 7 psi w/o additional equipment. It's do-able but it wouldn't perform very well. 24OZ, have you run the car any w/ the turbo? I ask because I tried using my n/a afm and the turbo, and it didnt work out so well. The turbo couldn't draw enough air through it and the car would choke out at 4000 rpm. I had n/a afm electronics swapped into the larger turbo afm housing which fixed the problem.

For a standalone system I would say the stock pump would be all right, but I can't speak from experience on how well it will hold up under high pressures. I'm sure pyro could tell you, but judging by the multi-pump setup he's running now i'm guessing he didnt have much luck there.

24OZ, you make a good point... there will be a discrepancy between the fuel pressure required for a stock turbo car @ 7psi and what you will need with an n/a ecu. I'm running the '77 ecu so I run about 50 psi for 7 psi boost, whereas if I had the turbo ecu, I would not need the fmu, pump, and increased fuel pressure b/c the injector pulse width would be lengthened to compensate for boost up to the zxt boost level of 7psi.

24OZ, I'm with clifton and pyro on this. You need an fmu w/ an adjustable rate of gain like what Pyro was describing. I personally run the BEGI 2025 fmu, and it works great. These are readily available on ebay. Also, in regards to supporting higher fuel pressures, something better than the stock pump will be required. I have to clarify though, that although Pyro is a brave guy and a pioneer for running n/a injectors and 100 psi fuel pressure supported by multiple stock pumps, you will probably find it easier and more reliable to get a single Walbro or other high quality pump that is designed to flow high volumes of fuel and support high fuel pressure if you have the money. There is a safety issue or two to be addressed here as well. I'm not sure how great it is to run 50+ psi through a stock fuel filter. I personally have my pump placed in such a way that my fuel filter is unpressurized. Also, if you have original fuel lines on the motor you might consider replacing them to avoid leaks/fires/death. I run the setup described above on zxt injectors and 7 psi boost and around 50 psi fuel pressure and it works excellently.

Cygnus, I put my new 'turbo on the n/a' setup to the test over the weekend for the first time. I took the car out in 25 degree weather, and the rear end was breaking loose in first and 2nd @ 7psi on dry pavement. No clutch dumping or anything like that, it was just hitting really damn hard once it spooled up. It's a great feeling.

Prox, I'll be driving it this weekend, so maybe I'll get to see it slip for the first time. If it does, I'll be asking you for some tips on how you upgraded yours.

240Z, Thats an excellent question. With a turbo ecu, what you are saying would be the case. With the n/a ecu and a turbo however, the position of the throttle no longer accurately reflects the amount of air going into the motor. The turbo causes atmospheric or above-atmospheric pressures when the throttle is not fully open. Basically my afm signal (and i'm pretty sure there's also a tach signal somewhere) are now the only things the ecu needs to supply the correct amount of fuel with my setup.

Bastaad, I actually have tweaked the afm pretty extensively, and like you said, there will be more of that to get the air/fuel ratio where i want it once I tune w/ wideband. A friend of mine has a very nice wideband w/ datalogging and has offered to spend some time on my car with that. None of this is going to be happening till spring when the weather is once again z car suitable and I can bring the car to college with me, but as soon as I get some numbers and charts on this setup I will be posting them.

Bastaad, back to the differences between our fuel delivery... I was talking to Big-Phil last night and we got on the subject. It got me wondering if for the sake of having a more consistent air/fuel ratio under boost while running an fmu, it wouldn't be better to have the n/a ecu. This might sound dumb at first, but the way I figure it, my ecu keeps the correct air/fuel ratio for below atmo. pressures, and once boost is reached, my pulse widths are constant, so the only change in fuel supply as boost increases is more fuel pressure. Therefore, I don't see why I shouldnt be able to stick close to one air/fuel ratio throughout the various manifold pressures. In your case, the turbo ecu is adding pulse width in boost, as well as the fmu adding pressure, so you have two things compensating for your need for more fuel, which may be why it's tough for you to maintain a steady air/fuel ratio. Let me know what you think about this whole idea...