HIWAY ONE Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'm building a street car, 260Z L28ET. I've researched radiators quite a bit over the last several days. Which would provide better cooling- this 3 row Champion http://datsunpartsllc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=97&parent=0 or this 2 row Koyorad http://www.racinglab.com/koyo-radiator-088.html The Champion radiators have good reviews on a variety of car forums but the Koyorad has a good reputation as well. Thoughts welcomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Crossflow is supposed to be better, from what I have heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullbound Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yes, crossflow are considered to be better than downflow. See here (though Cross is misspelled as Gross): http://www.stewartcomponents.com/tech_tips/Tech_Tips_5.htm Here's a crossflow option for you: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_DATZ_Radiator_Kit.html A lot of guys here are using the same radiator for cooling V8's with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCutThroat Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Umm, I'll chime in as I used to work for Champion and I can tell you I'd rather use their rads than anything else. Quite frankly I've seen Turbo Z's running OE Brass/Copper and they seem to be working out just fine but The quality of Champions is paralleled only by Mishimoto, since they use the same factory. They're literally Mishimoto rads with OE style mounting and 3 Rows to maximize cooling capacity. Not to mention Al Allen at Datsun Parts was always a pleasure to work with. Here's a picture of my Champion 3Row used to run for my 3.1 Stroker before I got my hands on their 4Row. It's insane overkill but I love it. Also:Champion has smaller 3 row rads keeping 800hp V8 drag monsters cool in Las Vegas summer heat. I imagine you probably won't be building anything close to that, so they're your safest bet. Also their rads come with a lifetime warranty so if it every fails on you they'll replace it for free. Edited July 26, 2011 by JonCutThroat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm in the process of installing a Champion 4-row radiator now and hope it provides that extra level of cooling I'm looking for. I used to use the JTR radiator, but needed a little more cooling power with my hot climate area, upgraded V8 power and Air Conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBZ Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm running a Champion 3 row and have had great results, it was well made and a good value. I did mount it using rubber isolaters, just for extra protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Bartman Could you post pictures of the Champion install? Hoses fan etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIWAY ONE Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks to all who have replied so far. I was leaning towards the Champion but in an old thread people were chomping at the bit to get a Koyorad, hence the indecision. http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/66496-developing-the-ultimate-s30s130-radiator/page__hl__%2Bkoyorad+%2Bradiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bartman Could you post pictures of the Champion install? Hoses fan etc. Here's a pic of the radiator in place. I'm using a Taurus fan and if you look close you should be able to see the weatherstripping between the radiator support and the radiator itself. This is extra door weatherstipping I had laying around that should help insulate the radiator as well as provide a seal to force the air through it. As you can also see I created ducting in front of the support as well. The top hose is just pieced together for now with JTR splicers and I will use it to try and find a hose that will fit soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) I run a Koyo radiator (technically speaking). I bought one a while ago and it took over a month to get here. From what the seller stated it wasn't his fault, but the fact that the recovery from the recent tsunami has affected their production. When I say I "technically" run one, I mean it's in the car, but I've never operated it. So.... I can't give you any performance data. I can however attest that it is the highest quality (appearance wise) radiator I've seen in or around my Z. The mounting brackets line up perfectly, and the way the radiator itself sits in the chassis is perfect. There are some minor annoyances though. The reason I got this was to replace an aging used aftermarket aluminium rad that I put in the Z during my turbo swap. It sat too low, had no mountings for the fan shroud, no drain plug, no mounting brackets. The Koyo solved the mounting problem, and looks better. The core thickness is the same as my other aftermarket radiator (53mm thick?).That's it from what I can gather so far. I could have swore when they made the thread here about it's design that they were going to implement their "N flow" or "Z flow" technology and that it would have provisions for the stock fan shroud. Neither of those are present, and those were features I really wanted. It also does not have a drain plug (@%^@$%&!?!?!?!) which dumbfounded me. I knew at the time of purchase that it wasn't going to have the "N Flow" from the data on their website, but those other things are really annoying. So all it really solved for me so far has been the mounting situation. I'll have to make my own fan mounts and radiator shroud for the fan, and possibly TIG a drain bung on the bottom. For your viewing pleasure: The old setup Sorry for the mess, but that picture was taken mid-swap two years ago. It's a "Northern" radiator, Manufactured in 11/20/03, "Made in USA" tag on it. The Koyo I removed the intercooler to show the front. Too bad it covers this. Here showing the bottom clearances. The old radiator hung just about even if not slightly lower than the radiator support. It also does not include a radiator cap, so you will have to buy one of these from Koyo separately. Another minor annoyance. All in all, I'm happier. I just wish it was a little better. Edited July 27, 2011 by Oddmanout84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Just an observation on the Koyo radiator - it seems from the images Oddmanout84 posted that a lot of potential cooling area is wasted by the side tanks. This seems especially so when viewed from in front of the radiator support where you see so much of the side tanks through the opening. I would speculate that you want as much cooling area as possible aligned with the opening in the radiator support. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Just an observation on the Koyo radiator - it seems from the images Oddmanout84 posted that a lot of potential cooling area is wasted by the side tanks. This seems especially so when viewed from in front of the radiator support where you see so much of the side tanks through the opening. I would speculate that you want as much cooling area as possible aligned with the opening in the radiator support. Just my 2 cents. I'd agree with this. Though I didn't mention it in my previous post, I thought it was a bit peculiar. The only thing I can think of is that they did it for clearance issues or to keep it as close to stock dimensions as possible? Maybe increasing the tank size on the top/bottom of the radiator to compensate for smaller side tanks didn't work well? From what I've gathered, this might be due to the fact that they were going for the superior performance of cross-flow rather than down-flow design. That's the theory anyway. I guess once my car is running again some testing will tell. I'm going to try to develop a mounting bracket for the thinner-style Taurus fans, but mounting room for fans is tight. Not just for the clearance between the radiator and engine pulleys, but the width of the radiator core as well. It's been difficult finding a twin fan setup or large single that will fit well and maximize the potential space. Sorry, I've edited this a bunch of times and it might be getting a bit convoluted. Probably because I've been huffing paint fumes all day from restoring furniture. Edited July 27, 2011 by Oddmanout84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 You don't need as much cross-sectional area as you'd think, definitely not an opening as big as the radiator supports on an S30 allow. It will perform just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIWAY ONE Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks for the pictures. I'm shocked that the Koyo doesn't have a drain plug! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks for the pictures. I'm shocked that the Koyo doesn't have a drain plug! You and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Choice of radiator matters, no doubt. But I'm finding that ducting and fan have a larger influence. I recently put the mechanical fan back on for a while with the new MSA cross flow radiator I installed, but without a shroud, and found that even in 95F+ weather the water temps often went below 180F. However, without a shroud the mechanical fan does not move enough air to keep the engine cool at idle, so I recently made a custom shroud and put the biggest SPAL fan (14") that would fit. Cooling at idle is now excellent, but I see engine temps running in the 185-190 range at highway speeds on hot days even with the efan running. Good as the SPAL fan is, the mechanical fan moves more air once the engine is above 2k rpm. My conclusion is that the airflow on a 240Z, even with spook, is so poor that the fan is making a significant contribution even at 75 mph. There is a lot of discussion about adding ducting to improve airflow into the radiator, but with a large oil cooler and turbo intercooler, I haven't yet figured out how to add ducting without removing the stock grill, something that I really don't want to do. Lastly, the primary benefit of a cross flow radiator appears to be for applications where the shape is rectangular i.e. rather wide and not too tall. It turns out that the MSA crossflow end tanks are wide enough that the remaining core is nearly square. Hence I think for our early Zs, cross flow by itself probably makes little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Do you have a link to said radiator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ... There is a lot of discussion about adding ducting to improve airflow into the radiator, but with a large oil cooler and turbo intercooler, I haven't yet figured out how to add ducting without removing the stock grill, something that I really don't want to do. ... I have radiator ducting and a stock grille. My air conditioning condensor and oil cooler are inside it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Do you have a link to said radiator? http://www.thezstore.../PCLC04/16-7017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I have radiator ducting and a stock grille. My air conditioning condensor and oil cooler are inside it as well. I have a thick intercooler as well and remember Bartman's posts in this thread: link I need to revisit that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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