afbrian13 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Hi all! So I know a new econobox handles better than a stock, not redone Z (albeit with a severe lack of style). I have a still stock 76 280 (with 81 stock n/a motor and 5speed)and I want to get it closer to a new car performance wise. I have driven an RX8 and compared to my Z it corners like crazy, but feels odd with zero low end. What newer car would a 280z, with tokico blues, arizona z 2indrop springs, urethane bushings all around be equivilant to? Engine wise i'm thinking a mild v8, basically a mustang gt drive train with an aluminum top end. I guess you could say a budget street build for spirited driving. Inside some miata seats. How big a differance does it REALLY make over stock. I don't have a pipe dream and you wont insult me, I just want an idea. Want car could I take for a drive that would show me what this setup would feel like? Any idea? I understand "if you want a car that handles like new, buy a 370" but I'm just trying to get an idea. My other vehicle is a F250 4x4, so I don't really have anything to compare to. Thanks! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have bilsteins in sectioned struts with 200/225 springs(coilover sleeves) and poly bushings. The steering takes a lot of turning the wheel and is kinda heavy at low speeds but it is NOT sloppy and every small movement gets a reaction, sometimes it just takes a lot of turning to get the reaction you're looking for. Obviously the steering is the same ratio as the stock suspension, the bigger tires make it a little tougher in tight parking lots. It doesn't really feel like a light flickable car, but it is. In order to get it to misbehave you need to go WAY faster than you think is safe, then mash the go pedal. Tires are 225/50r16 kumho ecsta spt's on a set of 16x8 xxrs. A decent set of tires is important. After DDing it for months, then hopping in my accord on tiny all seasons, I nearly ate a guard rail. The struts and springs made a huge difference, I did the front poly bushings and I could feel the change, but it was minor, I did the rear bushings with the rest of the work, so I can't comment on them. My stock bushings were in great shape to begin with too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Can hardly make an S30 stick, AND ride like a newer car, both at the same time. With the S30 it's pretty much one or the other if you are keeping the majority of the suspension components, and stock mount points. All this is without even mentioning the rigidity of the chassis. It's just not going to come easily. If you want it to pull 1.1G you can pretty much bet it's going to ride like a chuck wagon. If you want it to ride like a camry, it won't stick to the road, or have any dynamic abilities. That's the short story. Edited December 7, 2011 by cygnusx1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If you want it to pull 1.1G you can pretty much bet it's going to ride like a chuck wagon. This is VERY true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernS30 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 All I hope for my S30 is to handle well, if it rides like garbage so be it, as long as it will take those turns, opportunity cost. I'm also willing and accepting that it is going to be a work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 This is VERY true. Nope. If you spend money, real money, on the the shocks you can have a reasonably good ride and greater then 1G lateral acceleration. Custom valved Bilstiens or Konis will do the trick for from 200 to 350 per corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Don't short change the man John. Top flight shocks alone won't make "a still stock 76 280" into a modern supercar. This is only after bushings, springs, camber plates, adjustable LCA's and TC rods, strut tower braces, maybe some chassis stiffening, ball joints, etc. Did I mention tires and wheels might have a factor as well? I'm poking the bear. Read John's posts from the last few years and you'll get a fairly complete education on transforming the lowly S30's handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernS30 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Don't short change the man John. Top flight shocks alone won't make "a still stock 76 280" into a modern supercar. This is only after bushings, springs, camber plates, adjustable LCA's and TC rods, strut tower braces, maybe some chassis stiffening, ball joints, etc. Did I mention tires and wheels might have a factor as well? I'm poking the bear. Read John's posts from the last few years and you'll get a fairly complete education on transforming the lowly S30's handling. I don't quite thing camber plates will give the comfort that I think others were assuming the OP would want. To my understanding they are rather noisy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Like I said, comfort and handling, part ways somewhere along the line, due to the non multi-link suspension. I suppose everyones level of comfort and handling is different though. Oh and comfort in CA is different than comfort in the Northeast. Our roads get NASTY. Also defining "New Car" would be much more helpful. Edited December 8, 2011 by cygnusx1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 If you want it to pull 1.1G you can pretty much bet it's going to ride like a chuck wagon. I was disagreeing with the above statement. I was not implying that we can make the S30 into a supercar. Although, my racing 240Z with the Penske 8760 triple adjustables was described as having a ride like "little cat feet" by more then on person. And that was with 350 and 375 lb. in. springs. It was very noisy, but had a supple ride. I stand by my statement that the S30 can be made to ride well and pull over 1G lateral. And Rick Johnson (of Nissan NVH fame) has proven you can get Camry like quietness out of a S30 with a 383 SBC installed. The issue is that few, if any people are willing to put in the hundreds of hours needed to accomplish this. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Quoting myself: "...if you are keeping the majority of the suspension components, and stock mount points" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think those penske's cost more than my entire car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKLR Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 For street driving i prefer a little softer springs than most but still love the big massive sway bars. I think my car has a good compromise between body roll and the ability to soak up some bumps. Most race tracks are way better than public roads and you can run a very stiff suspension without it beating you to death. Run that race car on the street and you'll be needing a kidney belt to drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Also, John, the original post mentioned tokico shocks and lowering springs, that's a far cry from custom valving and penske triple adjustables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afbrian13 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Wow thanks a bunch for the posts. Just to clear things up a bit, I'm not as much worried about ride comfort as handling ability. I've been through a lot with this car over the past 7 years and as much as I love it, I keep feeling like I'm talking about an abusive relationship when disussing this car. I just keep coming back! I grew up in one of these things and like the one I have, but when I look at a twin turbo Audi v6, 6 speed, AWD, chipped, sport package plus upgrades for 5.5 to 6K, ready to go (a friend interested in selling his car)it gets hard to not pass up. I have so much crap (extra suspesion, engines trans, random boxes of Z parts, 2 extra wheel sets, complete dash, hoods-all from parts cars) laying around taking up space too. I want to restomod the thing and at the same time I'm almost tired of it. I hate to drop X amount of $$ into something for it to still be sub par compared to a 10year old car. I could care less about retail for the record. As a airplane mechanic for a living, wrenching has turned more to work than the hoddy it started out as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicArtist Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The only thing I've seen comparable to the handling of an S30 is a Miata. Never driven an NC more than 20mph, but I'm sure an NB is very comparable. I've driven my NA extremely hard and love the way it feels, but it's not right for what I'm wanting to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4nsm0l3m4n Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Going back to your original post, I think there are few cars that feel similar to a Z. As mentioned, a miata, being so similar in size to a z, gets close. However, when driving fast I dont think any modern cars can quick mimic the "sitting on the rear axle" feel. Also with a "mild v8" youre going to get a power/weight ratio that's going to be quite a bit bigger than pretty much any stock new car out there, so I'm not sure you'll find what youre looking for. If youre really looking for a comparison to a "modern" car a 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 is probably the closest youll come to mimicking the driving experience, power/weight, and handling of a V8 Z car. As far as suspension vs stock, and how much of a real difference it makes. I think its very hard to compare anything to truly stock Z suspension since most of that stuff is 30+ years old. My car had worn out shocks, bushings, tie rod, ball joints, tires, breaks, pretty much everything. Pretty much anything is going to be better than "stock" for me. I'm sure anyone ridden in a Z car with completely stock, but NEW, suspension will verify but I imagine it actually doesnt ride too bad. Unless you understand what exactly youre comparing things too its going to be very hard to make any judgement. FWIW the suspension package you mentioned works really well. I might suggest you add bigger front swaybar too and dont forget a good set of tires. You should have a nice sporty ride that, with the additional power of the V8, will make for a very fun car to drive. Stick to coilovers if you want to run super wide wheels, or when you start having opinions on what spring rates you'd like to use. Edited December 8, 2011 by h4nsm0l3m4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicArtist Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 As far as sitting on the rear axle, I think a BMW Z4 is probably going to be closest to that feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I hear good things about the handling and dynamics of the Z4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afbrian13 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I figured that nothing was quite going to feel the same based on driver position. If money wasn't an issue, I would drive a M4 in a second. To me they seem more like an S30 than a new Z does, or at least a 350. I'm still on the fence. I was die hard "I'm not selling this car, etc, etc" but I've been waivering as of late. Don't know if its frustration, stagnation with the project, loss of interest or what. Everytime the idea gets in my head, I go for a drive and then want to keep it, but when I think on it I feel like selling it, and all the extra stuff. I've done some pretty daunting projects (body swaps on trucks, put a turbo motor in this car-and pulled it again, etc)so its not that. Maybe thats it-all the extra crap around my house could be the problem. Thanks for the info and insite everybody. I do value the opinions of the people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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