AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 stock 77’ 280z 4-speed…. This is my first Z, I absolutely love the car, I’ve had it for about 1 ½ yrs now, but it has been sitting in my garage now going on 10 months. It just died on my driveway one day and I have not been able to get it started. It just cranks/turns over. I have replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator was leaking fuel, so I replaced that, all the vacuum hoses are in good condition, I have good spark on all six cylinders, I disconnected the fuel hose just past the fuel filter and it spit out fuel when I turned the key so I know I’m getting fuel up to the FI system, and I’ve been researching all over the net for a while and cannot find what is wrong. I don’t want to keep throwing money at it without results, and I’m at the point where I’m ready to order the Arizona Z car 4 barrel manifold. I’m a 4-eyed fox body carbureted mustang guy, but I love the style of the Z, and I don’t want to change from what makes it a classic Japanese car if I can help it. I read mixed opinions about the FI being trash, some say its great, many say that the 4 barrel set up is not good and I understand about the fuel mixture issue, but no one says anything bad specifically about the Arizona Z car manifold. I’ve read that the design of the manifold distributes the fuel evenly providing fuel for the “end†cylinders, and people are out racing with them with no issues. They are daily drivers that get great throttle response and fuel economy and they say better reliability than the FI. The problem I have is people speak about this as something they heard or their buddy said, but I am looking for actual experience with these set ups. I have searched this forum as well and I know how it works, I have not found the info I need, so if you know of a thread, please give me the link and I will gladly read up on it. I know forum folks don’t like the repeat stuff…lol… So my question(s) are: 1. can someone help me figure out my FI issue; or 2. if you have experience with the Arizona Z car manifold please fill me in. I love the car and I “need†to get it on the road this spring. I’m really hoping not to get the rude responses like the Zcar forum…. Those guys do not like to answer you, they just say “it’s been answered already, look it upâ€. I just think as car guys you would love to talk cars with any opportunity you get Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackdogNY Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Did it run fine before? Need alittle more info., more info=more help. Did it die while running. Check plugs, what do they look like. I would not switch to carbs, you will spend alot of money and stock efi is USUALLY very easy to use. Good luck, sucks having a broken old girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Yes sir, It ran perfectly fine, very smooth. basically the morning she left me, it was idling rough, had a lopy rhythm going on and it cut off on my driveway that morning. It fired right up again with the rough idle, a couple min later if cut off, and after that it just would crank and it never turned on after that. I have cleaned the distributor cap, and all the spark plugs are new, like 2 days old, I bought some new ones yesterday as i motivated myself to work on her again. Edited December 30, 2011 by AC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 The one reason I am considering a holley is because that is what I run on my daily driver mustangs, and I have never had any issues with the carbs. My current mustang has a 306 stroker with a 470cfm holley and I'm getting 22 mpg average with no issues. The arizona Z manifold costs $269, 390cfm carb is about $369, plus engine bay fuel line, a fuel pump and fuel filter, air cleaner and element, throttle linkage and vacuum hoses. so around $850 more or less and I'm doing all the work myself. I was planning on doing the work over a span of about 4-5 months, the cost would be distributed through those 4-5 months (I work slow...lol..) What do you guys think? But I'm still wanting my FI to work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The Engine Fuel section has good diagnostic procedures and describes how everything works - http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html Try starting fluid through one of the intake vacuum lines or at the AFM mouth to see if timing is right and you have sufficient spark. If you can get it to run with starting fluid, then focus on fuel and injector opening. The injectors open based off of the signal from the coil to the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackdogNY Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hate to vague, but a factory service manual will be your best help to solve it. To me it could be fuel or electrical. Dirty injector, bad coil, etc. My old '77 had the same type of problem and it was a clogged injector. My buddies fuel pump had a loose ground wire leading to tempermental fuel pump. Also have seen bad batteries cause weird problems. Try to check simple stuff, which it sounds like u have started. Sorry nothing quick here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 newzed, I tried the starter fluid and got nothing... I'll look at engine fuel section too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Blackdog, I've tried most everything but the injectors. will it not run even if one injector is not pulsating/ giving fuel? Isn't each fuel injector at least $60 a piece? that would be close to $400 with tax for injectors alone. that was one of my reasons for looking into going carbed. I spend about $800-850 or so and a majority of my expenses will be covered. But I am wanting all the input i can get. thanks for the fast and helpful responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You said you had good spark in Post #1. Did you check it at the plugs or plug wires, or at the main coil wire? If it won't start, or even pop once or twice, with starting fluid you probably don't have spark at the plugs, or your timing is way off. Or your plugs are very fouled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm obviously new to this FI stuff, but I do more or less no my way around it. so how can I find a faulty injector? do I replace one at a time with a new one? or can I test it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I just got all new spark plugs yesterday... i pulled one plug at a time while a buddy cranked and saw spark on each one. and cleaned off the distributor cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I have a FSM... i think thats what its called, the Zcar forum guys jumped on me for not having it on my computer... so I'll look more in depth at it. thanks guys. I'll also look at the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackdogNY Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I was able to tell by looking at the old plugs, the bad cylinder was obvious. Just had injector tested/cleaned at dealer I worked at. Did not need to replace them all. It was free, but I bet prices have gone up some. I don't work there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttodhunter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Have you tried the injector sound test and power relay check? For the injector sound test, you basically hold a screwdriver to the injector and put your ear on the other end. Have a friend disconnect and reconnect the ignition lead wire and listen for clicks. For the power relay test, disconnect the starter lead, hold your hand over the relay and turn to start. The relay should click. These are both located above the clutch pedal to the left of the steering column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If the plug wires are all in the right spots on the cap (check firing order and correct rotation), and you have verified spark on all six cylinders (which means the distributor is turning), then starting fluid should definitely get a pop or two, or a few seconds of running. If you can't get it to run for a few seconds with starting fluid, a carburetor won't make any difference. It's either electrical, or your valves aren't opening and closing correctly. I'm pretty sure that the stock L28 will bend some valves though if your timing chain broke so you would have heard some noise when it died. Good luck, don't forget the basics - fuel, compression, spark, fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttodhunter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You should also download a copy of the Fuel Injection Bible (280z specific) at http://www.4moores.com/280z/files/280zfuelinjectionbook.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I didn't hear anything when it died...I've experienced the timing chain braking in the past. I'll try the multiple things you guys mentioned. what about the MAF sensor? Can that not allow it to start if its bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttodhunter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 There are 3 tests in the FI Bible, pages 49-51, for the AFM. You'll need a multimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If the fuel has been sitting it is probably not very good anymore. Like others said, try starting fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC. Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 well i tried many of the helpful suggestions provided. I had a glimpse of hope today, I was looking under the hood for what seemed like the hundredth time since its been sitting, I turned the key and and after cranking a couple of times she turned on just long enough for me to hear my exhaust (I was pretty excited just to hear her after many months). I don't know what could be wrong. Since it fired up for about 2-3 seconds, I want to say I have an electrical problem. I have spark, and it sounded as though I got fuel. When doing more research here on hybridz, I came across that thread that was started by the owner of Arizona Z car. It seems that people that have used his product have nothing but good feedback. I really want to keep my FI, but if I don't make any progress I am really considering that route. Actual users of the products seem to switch over after experiencing engine issues. They speak about it being super easy to work on, reliable and it delivers good performance. Many of the stock FI advocates rave about keeping it, but in my research I have found that you can't do much to it, no computer chips, I saw a throttle body upgrade from a 240sx i think, but there aren't many adjustments you can make to the computer to make the upgrade worthwhile, you can do a MAF swap but it looked very very complicated for minimal return, and there is just so much going on with that system. The most familiar FI system I know is the 90s-early 2000s mustangs, not complicated at all, and the datsun system has so much going on for no reason, it just seems as though it could have been done in a much simpler way. But anyways, I want to keep my FI if I can, but the Arizona z manifold is just my plan b. If anyone has anymore suggestions to provide I would greatly appreciate it, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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