Alumiweld

[Neveragain55]

Ok Gang….

 

I’m at the point with my intake manifold that I’m ready to start filling some of the small divot’s and larger holes I’ve created by hacking off all the offending emissions crap that I don’t need or want.

 

I’m going for that “clean†look a lot of you have with your intake manifold set-ups.

 

I bought some Alumiweld which I’m sure most of you are all familiar with and I bought both: blue propane torches, and a Bernzomatic Oxy/map set up.

 

I attempted to do a test run on the EGR section of the manifold that I cut off because I wanted & needed to practice on something before I attempted to actually use the stuff on the Intake manifold.

 

I heated the thing up ((for what seemed forever) and it never melted the Alumiweld rod. You’re supposed to heat your part up first, and then apply the Alumiweld rod and the rod should melt onto the surface & bond with the material.

 

Well………………. It never did.

 

No matter how long I applied the heat, the rod never melted onto the surface (the way I saw it on all the YouTube videos)

 

Here’s the question… what the hell am I doing wrong or missing that all the YouTube guys are doing right?

 

The product instructions say that the stuff starts to work at the 700 degree temperature range and I’m literally applying heat for up to five minutes (and longer) and it’s not affecting the rods what-so-ever.

 

The rods themselves will melt if I apply heat to them, but that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Either I’m not applying the heat long enough (which I doubt) or the heat source I’m using isn’t sufficient (which I doubt).

 

I welded many years ago while I was going through Apex Tech in New York taking a auto body shop class and I was pretty good.

 

This baffles me……….. please help……

 

Below are links to the torch set-up I’m using and the Alumiweld.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-2880538-Cutting-Welding-Brazing/dp/B003BG5M8U

 

http://www.eastwood.com/alumiweld-standard-kit.html

[z240]

You simply could not get it hot enough with the torch you were using. No magic here, just too much metal and not enough heat.

 

Aluminum transfers heat SO well and with that amount of mass, even the Oxy/propane setup is not enough to keep a large enough volume at temperature. a "real " Oxy/Aceytlene setup is what you need here I'm afraid or a MIG/TIG approach.

 

BTW, I'm a HTS2000 rod lover myself. Used them on all sorts of repair, filler, and joining operations.

Edited May 3, 2012 by z240

[rossman]

I used Alumiweld to "weld" (actually more like solder or braze) a couple of fittings on aluminum pipe. It worked as advertized.

 

In your situation, my guess is that you aren't getting the manifold up to temperature. The problem is two fold. First, Aluminum is an excellent conductor so heat is carried away quickly. Second, the manifold is massive (as compared to a thin walled tube) so it takes a lot of heat to get it up to temperature.

 

Try applying the heat very locally, right at the area you want to weld. If that fails, you might want to grind off as much material as possible to reduce the manifold's thermal mass in that area.

[Neveragain55]

Z240:

 

I understand what you’re saying and I have to admit that it makes sense but I’m still just a little puzzled as to how a lot of other folks are simply using a propane torch and are getting results.

 

Even the instructional pamphlet that came with the Alumiweld rods say that all that is needed to obtain results is either a propane torch or oxy/map set-up.

 

Have you ever used the HTS2000 on our manifolds, and if so what kind of results did you yield?

 

Thanks for the advice; it’s very much appreciated…..

 

 

Rossman, thanks:

 

It would appear that you’re the second to give similar advice about not enough heat.

 

I’ll make one more attempt tonight in a thinner area and see if I can get the rods to melt, if not I’m just going to source it out to a weld shop and have them properly tig or mig it up.

 

I was really excited when I got the rods thinking they would work like a charm and so far it’s really been a big letdown.

 

Thanks again

Edited May 3, 2012 by Neveragain55

[johnc]

You mean the instructional videos might be wrong? The horror!

 

There's no way a propane torch can heat up an aluminum intake manifold to 700 degrees. As mentioned above, aluminum quickly sucks the heat away from the point of application and transfers it throughout the base material. It does this faster then a propane torch can add heat. You have to get the whole part to 700 degrees.

 

Try putting it in your over for 30 minutes at 500 degrees. Then pull it out and quickly use your torch. That will give you a fighting chance.

[Challenger]

Ive done a few intake manifolds and tried to use the alumiweuld. As you have found and everyone has mentioned, your trying to heat up a big huge aluminum fin. Not suprisingly, I cut a manifold in half and tried it again and sure enough it started melting the rod very easily. To much mass to get that hot. Oven sounds like a good idea as long as its not your wife/moms oven. Burning fuel/oil/grease is not good in a kitchen. haha

 

That said, the areas I was able to get it to melt worked pretty good.

[Neveragain55]

I appreciate the good advice guys, and I do remember my welding instructor years ago going into great lengths about the struggles with trying to weld or do anything with Aluminum because of its properties.

 

In between posts’ I did some digging and found this little gem: http://www.alvinproducts.com/Products/Content.asp?id=15

 

I think this would be a good compromise and a way to just avoid the whole welding, brazing, soldering thing all together.

 

Give the link a look and tell me what you think, make sure you click on the instructional video.

 

Thanks Gang……

[rossman]

$55 at Amazon. Save a few bucks and take it to a welder.

Edited May 3, 2012 by rossman

[Neveragain55]

I’m actually calling one in about 30 minutes to set up an appointment with him to look at all of this and give me some prices.

 

Hard to believe a welder would charge less than $50.00 bucks or so to weld this thing up.

 

But to be fair this is my first time at this and I’ve been out of the welding game for many years so I would have no idea what’s a fair price.

 

Thanks guy……

[rossman]

You have to find the right welder. The guy I used did it for me on his lunch break. Cost me $30 to weld on a couple of stainless v- band flanges.

[Neveragain55]

Nice, you got incredibly lucky.

 

I spoke to a cat today and he's coming by my house on Saturday to look at everything and give me a price.

 

He's welds in primarily aircraft weld shops and I've seen his work (he's very good).

 

One way or the other I'm determined to get this thing looking as beautiful as all the ones I've seen here in Hybrid and other Z car forums.

 

Thanks for all the tips & advice and I plan on doing a build thread on the manifold alone when everything is completed.

[proxlamus©]

Propane burns at a temperature of 3,595 °F

MAPP gas burns at a temperature of 5,307 °F

 

 

So.. if you used a propane torch.. this is the reason why. MAPP gas will get the metal hot enough. That is an extra 2,000 °F for melting metal.

 

EDIT. I just noticed you used Oxy/Acet torch combination. Oxygen/Acetylene burns at 6,330 °F. Now I am curious.

Edited May 13, 2012 by proxlamus©

[Tony D]

Yeah, reading through this, I was going to say 'it depends on what type of torch you use'...then I realized even my best turbo torch was marginal on heavier castings, but when I screwed my yellow MAPP gas on the dual-gas body it was no problem!

 

Another thing, like John C suggests and which is smart on any casting is oven preheating. But this can go away quickly if you aren't in a SHELTERED place without breezes.

Combat this with a cheap Harbor Freight 1100F Electric Heat Gun and have it blowing into your preheated casting. This will keep the plenum area VERY hot.

 

I'd still used MAPP Gas since it works so well. But you can really start moving on a lot of areas with that preheated casting and the heat gun putting so much temperature in from the inside out.