burninator Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 On my autocross only 240 I'm running Nitto NT01s. The outside edge wore in a cyclic pattern with a low spot every 3.25 inches or so the whole way around. At first I thought the odd wear was just as the first bit of tread disappearing (they basically turn into a slick as they wear about half way). Now it's obvious that it was more than that and I need new tires, but before I get the new tires I want to figure out what may have caused the odd wear pattern. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19762802+2 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 When I worked at discount tire, we usually saw issues like that in bigger trucks and some smaller cars, I think most of the time it was from being out of balance causing the wheel to hop, alignment issues, bad shocks, it can be all kinds of things, it's been a while since I worked there and my memory is vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctc Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 On my autocross only 240 I'm running Nitto NT01s. The outside edge wore in a cyclic pattern with a low spot every 3.25 inches or so the whole way around. At first I thought the odd wear was just as the first bit of tread disappearing (they basically turn into a slick as they wear about half way). Now it's obvious that it was more than that and I need new tires, but before I get the new tires I want to figure out what may have caused the odd wear pattern. Any ideas? Got a photo? I was getting what sounds similar on my Jeep. The front edge of each tread block had noticable more tread than the rear and also the outside edge of each block had more than the inside. If you were looking down at a perfectly square tread block in front of you, the Left upper corner would have the most tread and the right lower corner would have the least. For me it was lateral loading of the tire, I wasn't running a steering stabiliser, the wheel and tire were moving left to right (shimmy) as you drove forward. The same could happen from loose steering or aging suspension bushings. I'd start with simple things like wheel balance, alignment and wheel run out. Then move to suspension and steering. Have you recently refreshed the suspension and steering? Is any of those components loose? Hard to diagnose, without seeing the pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z240 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Some steering component has excessive play. Anything that causes a cyclic vibration to occur, which is most easy to explain by a loose steering component. Check lower ball joint, upper steering bearing, tie rod ends, rack bushings, suspension bushings, even wheel bearings, or a really bad shock can do it. Is it worse on one side than on the other? Even wear on both sides is tougher to explain, other than some shared component having excessive play (rack?) . It is totally one sided, it is easier to explain and find as it cuts out half of the components to check and replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 On my autocross only 240 I'm running Nitto NT01s. The outside edge wore in a cyclic pattern with a low spot every 3.25 inches or so the whole way around. At first I thought the odd wear was just as the first bit of tread disappearing (they basically turn into a slick as they wear about half way). Now it's obvious that it was more than that and I need new tires, but before I get the new tires I want to figure out what may have caused the odd wear pattern. Any ideas? I'd check your alignment and make sure you don't have anything that's worn out (tie-rods, inner/outer), worn rack bushings. And obvious things like the wheel is round. If all that checks out then it may be the tire. Over the years I've seen some weird wear patterns on tire from autox. I can only assume caused by what's under the rubber. The new GoodYear production slicks get a wear pattern that looks like massive toe-out. You run them once and then flip to take care of it. So another suggestion would be to check with other Nitto owners to see if they see a similar thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 I shook the wheels pretty hard and there is no obvious play. No noticeable play in the steering either. All bushings are new as of 2 years ago and everything feels fairly tight. It has about 2.75 degrees camber, I'll have to check the toe. It's doing it on both sides but is slightly worse on the drivers side. Here are some pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I vote for excessive toe. Did you adjust toe after altering your camber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 That looks like tire cupping. Just google search images and you can see similar wear patterns. I found this while looking: Cupping: this bumpy or scalloped tread pattern results from the tire dribbling up and down as it rolls down the road. A severely unbalanced wheel can be the culprit, but worn-out shocks are more likely. There are other causes also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'll check the toe, I did not check it after adjusting the camber. The shocks are pretty new. I guess I've never noticed a vibration that would make me think a wheel was badly out of balance, but I never go that fast in it. With autocross only, so I maybe only hit a bit above 60 for short periods. Could happen though, when I get new tires I'll have them balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If you did not set toe, after setting camber, I would expect excessive toe in as the cause. Any adjustment requires a full alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Toe problem, tire pressures too low, too little rebound in the shocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z driver Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 johnc is correct, those are all very likely culprits to your problem. Even with that in mind, your car is for autocross and tires are going to get beat up. If it was a daily driver and those tires were meant to last 30 or 40 thousand I'd worry about it. Check your alignment and suspension components in the front end and adjust as necessary, that should fix your problem. No matter what you'll have bad wear from autocross and putting high loads on the tire. Auburn Tire Service employee, I swear my statements aren't BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 That all sounds like great advice. Toe is now the first thing on my list to check as soon as I get a chance. Too little rebound I didn't expect to hear... I am running Koni yellows that I bought from you John, and I run them at the minimum rebound setting with 350lb springs. I feel like it helps the rear end set exiting corners and my car oversteers like crazy, at least the way I drive it. I've found that I have a tendency to make any car oversteer even if the owner swears it pushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I run them at the minimum rebound setting with 350lb springs You need at least 1 turn off full soft for rebound. More likely 1.5 with the spring rates you list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 You need at least 1 turn off full soft for rebound. More likely 1.5 with the spring rates you list. Noted. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30 SPL Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I've run those tires before and those patterns are usually from over driving them and /or low tire pressure for the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 The pressure might have been a bit low, I dunno, I'll be running higher tire pressures on the next set anyways. I went ahead and switched to R888s because they were available in a wider size. They do have more tread though, so the total rubber contacting the road is probly closer to a wash. I did get my car back from the place I store it and strung it up for alignment in the garage. It seems to have 1/8" toe out in the front as best as I could tell. So the toe in theory doesn't seem to hold. Is it normal to toe in when you add camber? My car is also quite low but I moved the inner LCA pivot up if that makes a difference there. On a positive note the rear toe is at 0 so I guess it's straight. Anyways, the tires lasted a long time, and like was pointed out with only autocross use the tires are going to take a beating. I'm not sure I know if I'm over driving the car, but maybe. I'll keep an eye on these new tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30 SPL Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 R888 is also a bit wider than the NT01 if they are equal sizes. It also normal to see toe in when negative camber increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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